bratty children misbehaving, no discipline

wanderingone

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And these attitudes above are why I said you should be careful using that word.

My children don't hit, either. So where does that argument take you?



The word "spanking" is a word I ONLY hear used for 2 reasons.. when adults explain how they hit their kids in a loving, controlled manner or when adults are referring to a fetish they're into. I wasn't arguing with you or berating you but since you want to make a link to using the word hit and whatever other attitudes you encounter: When it comes to hitting ones children I believe its always wrong, and yes I mean people who hear me say "hit" to understand I don't think there is a bit of difference between hitting and spanking. So maybe I'm more careful than you think I am, I say what I mean. Frankly I don't care if people think you're abusive for hitting your kids.
 
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Mling

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And these attitudes above are why I said you should be careful using that word.

My children don't hit, either. So where does that argument take you?

Ah, I remember making that argument when I was 7. "No Mommy, it's ok! I didn't hit her! I just spanked her!"
 
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Mling

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Wanted to add too that I firmly agree in explaining the purpose of the discipline or punishment every time. Otherwise a child really learns nothing.

Spanking is a last resort for us, and it's for things that usually involve endangerment.

Spanking is the exact same way for us, it's always a last resort and usually for things that are dangerous.


This is something I just don't understand. "Last resort."

If it's meant as a last resort punishment, then it has to be more punishing--more painful or miserable-- than anything else that might have led up to it. You need to be able to inflict enough pain (physical or emotional) into the spanking that it is worse than being grounded for a day, or a week, or worse than being yelled at, or anything else. It has to be a miserable, scary, painful experience, or else it is pointless.

If it's anything else other than a punishment (getting their attention; letting them know that this is a serious matter, etc) then it shouldn't be a last resort. You don't do something that's meant to just get their attention after you've already reasoning with them, talked to them and punished them a few times. It just doesn't make any sense.

So, as a last resort, it only makes sense if it's a punishment, and as a punishment, it only makes sense if it's severe.

But then people say, "I don't leave marks. It's not really about the pain. I don't yell. I do it calmly. It's just a little thing--not that bad."

How does this progression make sense? You reason; you ground; you make them stand in the corner; you take privileges away; you do all sorts of other things, and then...you do something that isn't half as bad a week without video games?

It seems more like people have this concept of spanking as a thing that has to be done, just because that's what you do...but they don't want to really do it. And so they kind of try to wedge it into relationships and dynamics where it doesn't really work or make sense.

Same when people say, "Spanking is fine--I spank my kids and they're great. I talk to them a lot and we have a great relationship. If they mess up, we talk about why they did it, and what they could have done better, and then sometimes I swat them once, lightly, over their pants. I only need to do that once every couple of months."

They don't seem to get that it isn't the spanking that's resulting in their kids being good, it's everything they're doing when they're not spanking. It's literally, the lack of spanking in their life that is making them good, and the slight amount that they're getting isn't enough to undo the good parenting they receive at other times. It's the same as the effect of mercury or lead: it is toxic. The more you get, the worse off you'll be. You should avoid it at all costs. But, if you get below a minimum amount and are otherwise healthy, it's possible to get a low enough amount that it doesn't do you any harm.

That doesn't make mercury a vitamin, or spanking a positive parenting technique. It just means that not everything that's harmful is instantly fatal.

Ps: why would you even want to have a "last resort" as a parent? What happens after that? Do you just stop parenting? A last resort is the last thing you do. It's your big guns. Short of killing your kid or leaving them in the woods, you can't have a last thing you do, as a parent. Tomorrow has a way of always coming, and kids have a way of being persistent.

PPS: whenever I hear that, also, I remember what my mom told me about spanking me when I was little. After doing it once or twice as her immediate response to misbehavior, she decided that it would be her last resort--she'd only do it if she had no other options.

But, once she made that commitment--not to spank unless there were no other options-- she realized that there were always other options! She never made a commitment to stop spanking, and she didn't decide until much later (when my sister and I were told old to be spanked) that it was a bad thing in and of itself.

She just decided to only do it if she had to, and then realized she never had to.
 
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jpcedotal

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The word "spanking" is a word I ONLY hear used for 2 reasons.. when adults explain how they hit their kids in a loving, controlled manner or when adults are referring to a fetish they're into. I wasn't arguing with you or berating you but since you want to make a link to using the word hit and whatever other attitudes you encounter: When it comes to hitting ones children I believe its always wrong, and yes I mean people who hear me say "hit" to understand I don't think there is a bit of difference between hitting and spanking. So maybe I'm more careful than you think I am, I say what I mean. Frankly I don't care if people think you're abusive for hitting your kids.

Your are entitled to your opinion...you are wrong, though.
 
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dies-l

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Your are entitled to your opinion...

For the most part, this is not an opinion. Spank means to hit another's bottom with an open hand.

you are wrong, though.

No, actually, looking at dictionary definitions, it looks to me like she is objectively correct. Whether or not spanking is right or wrong, abusive or not, it is, by definition, hitting. I don't know why we would be asked to deny that fact just because that offends some people.
 
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rturner76

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I was making a funny. Fact are fact. Opinions are opinions. You can't have an incorrect opinion and an opinion can't be fact. Failed wit. Sorry. It's hitting boom-ping! Slap pain, ya......
 
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rturner76

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You know I've been seeing you in here for a while waiting on your adoption to go through. I'm happy for you that it finally did. God bless your family Dad! I hope the kids are happy. I'm sure they are well cared for. Glad to hear you try not to hit. I can't say if I would or not. I probably would at least the boys. I don't think I could lay a hand on a little girl.
 
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RoadWarrior

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Of course when we were kids, we were perfec little angels

Not me, but then I didn't throw tantrums in public because I knew I'd either get swatted in public or a paddling at home.

Part of the problem may be parents who are afraid to discipline their children because of all the über-PC types who would videotape them and send it to the local Child Protective Services. In that case, it'd be better to let the kids be brats rather than lose them to the State and be vilified on the 6 o'clock news.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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Of course when we were kids, we were perfec little angels

God knows I wasn't.

I am thankful that my kids don't misbehave the way I did as a young child.


I'm ignoring the rest of the argument about spanking. I respect your choices and that's all that really needs to be said at this point in time.
 
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AgapeBible

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I am not a mean child-hating witch if that is what some of you think I am.

I can explain my username. Agape comes from the word for Christian spiritual love of god. The dragon part is more difficult to explain. Dragons are used as a symbol for the Devil, Satan, in the Bible along with serpents and snakes, many cultures see dragons as symbols of powerful evil and deception, but not all. China and other Asian cultures see dragons as divine, good, wise, kind and just who help people. But China has a long list of human rights abuses. In the Bible you can find erses of dragons praising the Lord god, not all dragons are evil and dragons do not fully represent evil, they are not always seen as evil, some are seen merely as strong powerful, containing mighty forces of creation and chaos, the powers of nature.


In the Babylonian/Mesopotamian creation story of Tiamat the sea dragon Tiamat was not really evil it was her husband Apsu dragon of fresh water's idea to destroy the younger gods and humans, she only became violent after Apsu's murder, and acted in self-defense. Marduk, who killed her, was another name for Lucifer/Satan and he attempted to destory Tiamat and her children, all the good dragons that defended heaven and stayed on God's side during the war in heaven, Tiamat was God's most fierce warrior in the war in heaven, she was killed and her bloody coprse filled the bottom of the ocean, the dead bodies of the slain dragon filled the Earth, so in Genesis when it starts out describing the Earth being without form or shape, the dry land and water mixed together, they are speaking of the remains of the slain creatures who lived in the "Dreamtime" before Genesis, it is spoken of in Revelations, and in Job it speaks of the "Morning Stars singing together" which is the real begining of the Universe, Genesis is not the actual beginng begining. Tiamat's soul did survive somewhat, she became the angel of death, Kali, Hel, Ereshkagel, the Morrigan, the Dark Mother. She is Gaia, Mother Earth, the earth Herself is alive, has a spirit, and is Mother Nature, and Mother ocean, she survived as this, but is not a goddess, and I do not worship her as a goddess, but she is a powerful spirit, and serves Yahweh.

I am a descendant of Tiamat. A few of her dragon children survived. It took me long time to discover my inner dragon, and I won't let anyone take it from me now that I have it. So that is why I call myself Agapedragon.


I like children, especially when they are nice. I don't like it when kids are mean and misbehave. My neighbor's kids are nice, I like them, they pretty much behave well and are good. Their dad yells a lot, I hear him yelling from my house. My dad talks loud because he has a hearing problem. He does get mad and yell, but not like the neighbor.

When I was a child I was very good, but very shy and I hardly ever talked.
When I got older I talked more. I had a lot of problems with other kids picking on me and making fun of me. I was/am sensitive. I can't stand bullies. It bothered me as akid when other kids behaved bad. I behaved very good in school, mostly pretty good at home, but usually if I was going to do something wrong or behave badly, it would be at home. A few times I misbehaved in church. I had this problem with getting bored in church. After kindergarten they really didn't have children's church till I was in 5th grade or middle school so I would draw in church cuz i was bored. I also had trouble paying attention in church or school, my mind would wander, well that's my learning disability, it affected my grades I had to take special classes, I mean I would be daydreaming thinking of something else.
 
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The Nihilist

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I can explain my username. Agape comes from the word for Christian spiritual love of god. The dragon part is more difficult to explain. Dragons are used as a symbol for the Devil, Satan, in the Bible along with serpents and snakes, many cultures see dragons as symbols of powerful evil and deception, but not all. China and other Asian cultures see dragons as divine, good, wise, kind and just who help people. But China has a long list of human rights abuses. In the Bible you can find erses of dragons praising the Lord god, not all dragons are evil and dragons do not fully represent evil, they are not always seen as evil, some are seen merely as strong powerful, containing mighty forces of creation and chaos, the powers of nature.


In the Babylonian/Mesopotamian creation story of Tiamat the sea dragon Tiamat was not really evil it was her husband Apsu dragon of fresh water's idea to destroy the younger gods and humans, she only became violent after Apsu's murder, and acted in self-defense. Marduk, who killed her, was another name for Lucifer/Satan and he attempted to destory Tiamat and her children, all the good dragons that defended heaven and stayed on God's side during the war in heaven, Tiamat was God's most fierce warrior in the war in heaven, she was killed and her bloody coprse filled the bottom of the ocean, the dead bodies of the slain dragon filled the Earth, so in Genesis when it starts out describing the Earth being without form or shape, the dry land and water mixed together, they are speaking of the remains of the slain creatures who lived in the "Dreamtime" before Genesis, it is spoken of in Revelations, and in Job it speaks of the "Morning Stars singing together" which is the real begining of the Universe, Genesis is not the actual beginng begining. Tiamat's soul did survive somewhat, she became the angel of death, Kali, Hel, Ereshkagel, the Morrigan, the Dark Mother. She is Gaia, Mother Earth, the earth Herself is alive, has a spirit, and is Mother Nature, and Mother ocean, she survived as this, but is not a goddess, and I do not worship her as a goddess, but she is a powerful spirit, and serves Yahweh.

I am a descendant of Tiamat. A few of her dragon children survived. It took me long time to discover my inner dragon, and I won't let anyone take it from me now that I have it. So that is why I call myself Agapedragon.

I think your Enuma Elish needs to lay off the shrooms.
 
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AgapeBible

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I misbehaved a few times. When I was 4 or 5 years old I was in a caffeteria style restaurant with my family and we had to wait in along line to get the food. I was hungry and impatient, started whiny and crying cuz I wanted the food now, then my dad spanked me right there, he swatted me on my legs, and this elderly lady behind us said, "That's so unneccessary." My dad likes to bring this up and make fun of that old lady. I would not remember it if he would not have told me the story.

Another time we were at a wedding, and I also got impatient and whiny. We had to go home, and I was spanked the next day.
 
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united4Peace

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I think the much larger problem is the whiny adults that inhabit Walmart. Especially the ones that are unattractive and dress funny. I mean, no one wants to see that...

Not to railroad the OP...
my husband was in Walmart (we rarely shop there) and was crouched down looking at something on the bottom shelf when all of a sudden he heard someone say to him that he was a disgrace as his pants had ridden down a little(normal when one is bending or crouched down)...he stood up to see an enormous lady and her enormous husband standing there.
The woman continued to rant so he told her that at least he wasn't blocking the isle. The husband then got upset and wanted to fight him outside in Walmart's parking lot. No fight occured as he had our son with him.
Back to the OP, as a mother, I have had days when our kids were younger that they would whine while shopping, however most of the time they were good. Life happens! I was in one store buying items and the clerk went back to price check something. Our oldest was about a year and a half or so and was sitting on the counter and started bagging my items. I would take the items out and put them back, when the clerk came back I said "he is trying to help you by bagging the items", the clerk came unglued and started yelling how that is theft. I bluntly told her to get "real!".
In the same store on another occasion I had a toddler who was being toilet trained, he really needed the washroom, the one clerk started to take me and him back to the toilet when the other clerk intervened and said to go home and use our own bathroom, as theirs was not for customers. Our son ended up going pee all over the floor. I and the other clerk smiled smuggly while the other one fumed :D:
 
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united4Peace

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As our kids are now teenagers I have it figured that I am being paid back! When I look back I think Id much rather have toddlers as though they could act up at times it was easy to distract them with playdough (homeade), paints, water (pool or bath) and of course Barney :). Toddlers are much less expensive as well, they don't need $150 DC running shoes, cell phones, Ipods, laptops, etc, hmmm okay so our kids are slightly spoiled ;)
 
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Chajara

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I misbehaved a few times. When I was 4 or 5 years old I was in a caffeteria style restaurant with my family and we had to wait in along line to get the food. I was hungry and impatient, started whiny and crying cuz I wanted the food now, then my dad spanked me right there, he swatted me on my legs, and this elderly lady behind us said, "That's so unneccessary." My dad likes to bring this up and make fun of that old lady. I would not remember it if he would not have told me the story.

Another time we were at a wedding, and I also got impatient and whiny. We had to go home, and I was spanked the next day.

That IS unnecessary. Imagine, a young child getting upset due to being overly hungry and/or bored! The very nerve! Did you ever think that maybe instead of humiliating you in front of strangers he could have simply picked you up and comforted you instead? Maybe a simple "Yes, I know you're hungry, I'm hungry too. I'm sorry the line is taking so long. Don't worry, you'll have a belly full of warm food in just another few minutes." would have been enough to get you through the likely 5 minutes it would have taken to get some food in you.

I like how when an adult has a bad day and finally cracks and either yells or cries, it's "Well I'm really stressed out, I've just got all this stuff I'm dealing with and I'm overwhelmed" and often, people will understand and offer to help. When it happens to a kid? "I'll give that brat something to cry about!"

We seem to have this mentality in our culture that children need to be dominated like animals, and it's really gross. They're people with feelings and they're not inherently bad because sometimes they can't handle those feelings with their not-yet-fully-developed brains.
 
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