Boys Scouts lift ban of Gay Leaders

[Hank]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/boy-scouts-to-vote-on-ending-ban-on-gay-adults-1438016457

Oh boy. Will you send your boy to the scouts? They lost already the support from Intel Corp and one other one. It's called a victory by some, I think a very old institution is falling apart.

Not sure if this belongs here or in the ethics forums.

 

[kit]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/boy-scouts-to-vote-on-ending-ban-on-gay-adults-1438016457

Oh boy. Will you send your boy to the scouts? They lost already the support from Intel Corp and one other one. It's called a victory by some, I think a very old institution is falling apart.

Not sure if this belongs here or in the ethics forums.

I wouldn't have let a son of mine participate in the Boy Scouts before today. Now I would.

 

[Hank]

Main oaths of Boys Scouts
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

It's predominately a religious based institution. I may not agree with their motto, but they are being now attacked by the gay community and who want to eliminate the faiths motto. That does not sit well with me.

Meanwhile, it looks like you and I are both from Canada. You will be happy to know that Scouts Canada is political correct. They even accept offspring from atheists, and if you pass the psycho tests and police records, you can be a leader.

 

[Fireinfolding]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/boy-scouts-to-vote-on-ending-ban-on-gay-adults-1438016457

Oh boy. Will you send your boy to the scouts? They lost already the support from Intel Corp and one other one. It's called a victory by some, I think a very old institution is falling apart.

Not sure if this belongs here or in the ethics forums.

If I had a son no, its not a place for little boys anymore

 

[dgiharris]

Why is it that people continue to confuse homosexuality with pedophilia?

You are aware that they are two completely separate things.

Believing a homosexual is a pedophile is akin to believing a carnivore is a cannibal...

I for one am glad the Boy Scouts are lifting their gay ban. I mean, there are plenty of great boyscout leaders out there that were UNFAIRLY ostracized from the organization they grew up in and loved. To me, i've always felt a kinship between the boyscouts and the military. They are organizations that pride themselves on honor and service. And I know first hand what it is like to see someone who loves their organization, who loves their country, who is filled with nothing but honor and service get kicked out simply because he or she is gay. It is an injustice, it is beyond unfair.

Homosexuals are people. They can be mean, they can be kind, they can be honorable, they can be spiteful... they are just like you and me. When will we understand that? When will we evolve beyond our bigotry???

 

[Fireinfolding]

I dont know why some people would confuse these two unnatural sexual desires when clearly a handful of years separates a man from a boy in that particular lust.

But parents have to exercise their own discretion, even in the church (how much more at boy scotts) just as there was homosexuality in the same there was pedophilia in the Catholic chuch as can be anywhere. But it manifested in a big way there in the religious sphere, same in the secular sphere. There was a group called PIE which come forward in the 70's who were gay but also lusting after little children too and wanting pedophilia to be legal (as long as the child consented) and so there are those kinds too. I thought the group disapeared (because at that time it would definately not go over that well) and so you might think it wouldnt today either, but given what is acceptable to teach children (such as teenage girls how to strap one on) in our schools (via my latest gross OP). Then learning about these pedophile rings, and seeing that PIE group has also received government funding as late as 2014 (which pressed for that perversity) I probably couldnt help being a little suspicious of a child predator (especially with a son in the boyscotts) especially at this particular time.

It would really just be a matter of saying no, your dad will teach you these things and maybe we will join up with other dads and the boys can spend more time with their dads (closer to home) and do boyscott things with their own sons (without the boy scott club) thats all.

 

[Green Sun]

As an Eagle Scout, I'm glad they finally did this. Removing the ban on gay youth two years ago was very important and this is obviously the next step.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Boy scouts appears to have always been a sort of magnet for sexual deviants, who lust after their own gender taking advantage of the opportunities the boy scouts naturally affords them in a remote places away from parental supervision.

For something like that its like this smorgasbord of provision made for his flesh. These men leaders in the video who prefer same sex sex arent going to come out and say "I lust young boys" but rather that his lust prefers men his own age (obviously so) and so no one will worry about them being a boy scout leader.

The boy scouts has thousands of names of men (who were scout leaders) and who prefered same sex sex (but liking the same equally with young boys) on what they call their perversion files. These having used what was afforded them by the boy scouts to fulfil their lusts as a predator of young boys.

And in the video the CBS reporter cites from the years 1991 to 2005 (alone) that within that time frame 2,500 boyscout leaders were put onto their perversion files and thrown out of the boyscouts.

And the video also states that this has been going on for a century (so I am sure the numbers are much larger).

With those numbers ( in respects to little boy sexual predators) its just not safe to have your sons in the boyscouts.

 

[Armoured]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/boy-scouts-to-vote-on-ending-ban-on-gay-adults-1438016457

Oh boy. Will you send your boy to the scouts? They lost already the support from Intel Corp and one other one. It's called a victory by some, I think a very old institution is falling apart.

Not sure if this belongs here or in the ethics forums.

We've had gay leaders and scouts, AND boys and girls together in scouts for 20 some years in Australia. The movement's fine. Indeed, MORE vibrant and relevant than the American version, IMHO.

edit: OK, not sure when Scouts Australia explicitly said gay leaders were OK, but I have encountered a couple. I'll try to find a date.

edit edit: "Scouts Australia says its door has always been open to gay men and boys.

"We've always had a non-discrimination policy across the board," a spokeswoman told AAP.

"We've never had any discrimination in regard to sexuality and that sort of thing.

"And when we hire people, we gauge people on the quality of their leadership skills rather than their sexual preferences. That's their personal business. http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...n-to-gay-members/story-e6frfku9-1226650111387 "

 

[Armoured]

Why is it that people continue to confuse homosexuality with pedophilia?

Ideological debate 101; "if you can't argue against something you oppose, link it to something you can argue against, and then argue against that, and hope no one notices."

 

[dgiharris]

Boy scouts appears to have always been a sort of magnet for sexual deviants, who lust after their own gender....

Okay, please stop right there. Being a homosexual is NOT the same as being a sexual deviant. The semantic and connotation you are inferring is a thinly veiled attempt to conflate homosexuality with pedophilia. The two have exactly as much in common as heterosexuality and pedophilia. Let me repeat that in case you missed my point. Homosexuality is to pedophilia as Heterosexuality is to pedophilia. So any argument you can make linking homosexuality to pedophilia is an argument you can make linking heterosexuality to pedophilia. Now that we've cleared that up, lets go through the rest of your rant...

...advantage of the opportunities the boy scouts naturally affords them in a remote places away from parental supervision.

Yes, if you were a pedophile then yeah, this would be true.

For something like that its like this smorgasbord of provision made for his flesh. These men leaders in the video who prefer same sex sex arent going to come out and say "I lust young boys" but rather that his lust prefers men his own age (obviously so) and so no one will worry about them being a boy scout leader.

Again, you are confusing pedophilia with homosexuality. In your mind, you think there is some sort of link and there is not.

The boy scouts has thousands of names of men (who were scout leaders) and who prefered same sex sex (but liking the same equally with young boys) on what they call their perversion files. These having used what was afforded them by the boy scouts to fulfil their lusts as a predator of young boys.

And in the video the CBS reporter cites from the years 1991 to 2005 (alone) that within that time frame 2,500 boyscout leaders were put onto their perversion files and thrown out of the boyscouts.

And the video also states that this has been going on for a century (so I am sure the numbers are much larger).

It is a shame this happened, but again, this was done by pedophiles not homosexuals. There is a difference. Homosexuality is not some gateway drug to pedophilia. The two are as different as heterosexuality and pedophilia...

 

[Arcangl86]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/boy-scouts-to-vote-on-ending-ban-on-gay-adults-1438016457

Oh boy. Will you send your boy to the scouts? They lost already the support from Intel Corp and one other one. It's called a victory by some, I think a very old institution is falling apart.

Not sure if this belongs here or in the ethics forums.

If I had a son, I would send him to the scouts still. And as I'm sure you know, they actually lost support from Intel because they were banning gay members and leaders. They actually might now get that support back.

Main oaths of Boys Scouts
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.

It's predominately a religious based institution. I may not agree with their motto, but they are being now attacked by the gay community and who want to eliminate the faiths motto. That does not sit well with me.

I really people would stop doing this. Just because you are gay does not mean you are not a person of faith. Also, this resolution will still allow local church sponsored units to ban gay leaders if they wish. So really, I don't see the big deal.

 

[Cloture]

What would happen if parents had a girl who was 14-15 and they found out she was spending time alone with a man out in the woods? If you put in that context, 95% of parents would say no thank you. It's not about pedophilia. It's about common sense that you just don't go there. Regardless of the gender involved, it is very bad policy to isolate teenagers with adults who have the possibility of finding them attractive. That was the motivation behind the original rules.

To borrow a bit of wisdom from the great GK Chesterson, every time you tear down a fence, it's a good idea to stop for two seconds and imagine why that fence was put there in the first place.

 

[Armoured]

What would happen if parents had a girl who was 14-15 and they found out she was spending time alone with a man out in the woods? If you put in that context, 95% of parents would say no thank you. It's not about pedophilia. It's about common sense that you just don't go there. Regardless of the gender involved, it is very bad policy to isolate teenagers with adults who have the possibility of finding them attractive. That was the motivation behind the original rules.

To borrow a bit of wisdom from the great GK Chesterson, every time you tear down a fence, it's a good idea to stop for two seconds and imagine why that fence was put there in the first place.

Scout leaders don't spend time alone with their scouts in the woods. Like I say, Australia has had "co-ed" scouts for near 30 years. The problems easy enough to avoid, hard and fast rule, no leader is to be alone with any youth member, ever. Another leader must be present or another youth member must be present.

No problem.

 

[Arcangl86]

What would happen if parents had a girl who was 14-15 and they found out she was spending time alone with a man out in the woods? If you put in that context, 95% of parents would say no thank you. It's not about pedophilia. It's about common sense that you just don't go there. Regardless of the gender involved, it is very bad policy to isolate teenagers with adults who have the possibility of finding them attractive. That was the motivation behind the original rules.

To borrow a bit of wisdom from the great GK Chesterson, every time you tear down a fence, it's a good idea to stop for two seconds and imagine why that fence was put there in the first place.

Except female scout leaders are allowed. Also, there are other youth organizations that have never had restrictions about gender or sexuality, yet don't have issues with the isolation because of use of pretty strict protection policies.

 

[Cloture]

Okay. We're tired of arguing. It is what it is.

 

[Armoured]

Okay. We're tired of arguing. It is what it is.

Why are you arguing in the first place? I don't know about anyone else, but I wasn't arguing at all, but rather trying to reassure you.

 

[Cloture]

This year alone, the Boy Scouts of America have had to pay over $11 million in damages for sexual assault cases. Do a simple Google search, and you'll find numerous headlines about new cases within the past few years. Be sure to let those victims know the "strict protection policies" were supposed to make sure that didn't happen.

You blew off my comment without so much as considering it might be true.

Every time a cultural fence is removed in America, all we end up with are more Fergusons and more Kardashians. We do not become more enlightened. We do not achieve more liberty. We find ourselves further entrapped in a draining pool.

But whatevs, everyone's mind is already made up one way or the other, so there's not much point in discussing it at all.

 

[Archivist]

As an Eagle Scout with Silver Palm, I think this was a good decision. Homosexuality and pedophilia are two very different things.

I don't think it was mentioned in the thread that the resolution to end the ban on gay adults still allows local scout units that are chartered to religious or other like-minded organizations to continue to set their own policies on gay adults.

 

[keith99]

Scout leaders don't spend time alone with their scouts in the woods. Like I say, Australia has had "co-ed" scouts for near 30 years. The problems easy enough to avoid, hard and fast rule, no leader is to be alone with any youth member, ever. Another leader must be present or another youth member must be present.

No problem.

So sad that these kind of rules are now needed.

40 years ago I worked with the YMCA and I was 'alone' with one of the high school girls for several hours. Why? She was the only camper that year who wanted to hike to the top of Half Dome. I was the only leader who had not done the hike. Half Dome was a bit much to allow a kid to do alone. I put alone in quotes because we were always on the trail to Half Dome so someone could pass by any time we were stopped. However we did not see anyone until well after we took a break at the top of Nevada Falls.

Ironically she did not make it to the top. I planned well and despite her not being in great shape we made it easily. But she could not deal with the last half mile when you climbed the back of Half Dome between 2 cables. But at least in the end that was her choice.