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Born again.

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Salvadore, Jul 23, 2021.

  1. Salvadore

    Salvadore Active Member

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    A person is born again after hearing the Gospel, believing in Christ, repenting and being baptized. The person, being of sound mind, tries hard to follow Christ (I am speaking of attitude and heart; not necessarily good works). When the person fails, the person repents and is forgiven. Correct? This is a picture of a born-again Christian.
     
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  2. Ivan Hlavanda

    Ivan Hlavanda Active Member

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    A person is born again when the God out of grace His Spirit upon a person. Only then the person will do all these things as you have described.
     
  3. CatsRule2020

    CatsRule2020 Active Member Supporter

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    I think that is correct. A person at church hears the sermon and decides to go forward. He/she had to be Spiritually baptized into the Spiritual body before they stood up to go forward in the first place. Otherwise they would have just stayed in place until the assembly was dismissed.
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Unless first born again, the gospel remains hidden and thought of as foolishness.

    “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

    “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900)

    “But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)
     
  5. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    As we turn to God in sincere faith we enter a relationship with Him which is based on trust and love, less and less on fear, and not on the law. We enter a life where grace is available, where God the Holy Spirit resides in and pours out His love into our hearts, causing us to do the things that please Him.

    We can also turn back away from this relationship at any point; the struggle against sin and that which opposes Him IOW doesn’t just go away, not until our love is perfected anyway. And that’s a work of His and yet one we must cooperate in.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  6. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Belief comes before receiving the Holy Spirit, not after.

    “Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.”
    ‭‭John‬ ‭7:37-39‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
     
  7. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Your not understanding the context of what Paul is saying here. What Paul is saying is that people who are new to Christ do not have a mature understanding of the Spiritual teachings of the Holy Spirit.

    “And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God. Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;”
    ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2:1-6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


    “And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?”
    ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:1-3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

    Verse 14 is referring to the natural man who has set his mind on the flesh.

    “For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:5-7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

    What Paul is saying here is that those who set themselves against God cannot subject themselves to the law of God because they are not spiritually discerned and cannot be as long as they remain at odds against God. They have hardened their heart against Him and as long as they do that God will not grant them Spiritual knowledge. Hence “He who has ears to hear, let him hear. So their ignorance is not the result of God forsaking them it is the result of them forsaking God. God does not force anyone to believe but He will allow them to.
     
  8. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    How can a dead person, a person without life hear ? Seems logical a person can hear after they are born and have life.
     
  9. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Every believer that ever existed was dead when they heard the gospel. The gospel has the power to elicit a response.

    “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
     
  10. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Baptism in the Holy Spirit .
    Matthew 3
    But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. 10 And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
     
  11. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Dead people cant hear.
     
  12. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    “Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each person according to his deeds:”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

    Why are these people refusing to repent and believe? Is it because God has not enabled them or is it because they are unwilling to cooperate with Him?
     
  13. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    It says nothing about dead people hearing. Its impossible. Dead people cant cooperate, they dead !
     
  14. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    They refuse to repent because they dead to God !
     
  15. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    But Paul said that God’s kindness and patience is leading them to repentance. This means that God has already bestowed His grace upon them otherwise they would not be capable of repentance. God can’t be leading them to repentance if He hasn’t bestowed His grace upon them. Your one line replies show your unwillingness and inability to give any credible explanation against Paul’s message here.
     
  16. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    You can be kind to a dead person all you want, they dead. Not only that they have a hard impenitent heart. Notice Rom 2:5

    But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

    Thats every dead sinners heart by nature. Paul is proving the total depravity of the natural man, even the natural jew in this context. Mans heart by nature is without repentance in it, thats what impenitent means, look the word up, try studying verses and passages you run and get !
     
  17. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Your completely omitting the fact that God’s kindness and patience is leading them to repentance.
     
  18. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Do you know the unregenerate are dead ? You dont lead dead folk
     
  19. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    You don't think he is referring to Pentecost there, and not rebirth?
     
  20. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    He already said they were not of this world. They didn’t need the Holy Spirit yet because Jesus was still with them. No one had received the Spirit yet and already thousands believed.
     
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