Born again Atheist here!

[GreenMunchkin]

I never said I was unhappy.

Now that ive had time to think about things, I realise that i was harsh in my opening post on this thread.

How are you now, Neil?

 

[kl_lorent]

So here's the deal, what I'm most confused about is how you can "open your mind" while simultaneously deciding there "cannot be a God." Unfortunately it doesn't matter what you, I or anyone else decides in our minds to be true about such things.

Just a thought to throw out there, if you are right and we die and nothing happens then I will have nothing to loose, I will have spent my life believing I had a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe and having joy from His Love I imagined to be for me, I will die and that will be the end. BUT, on the other hand, if I am right and there is a God who loves you intensely and a Savior who died for our sins so that we can have a relationship with Him and that this is the only way to get to Heaven, then what?

I also think the Universe is a beautiful place but it's a very sad thing to not have any explanation for it, that leaves us with no purpose. Don't you ever wonder why you're here, how everything got here? So what if we forgot about religion? I believe Jesus came to destroy RELIGION. Religion has kept more people from God than anything else. What Jesus came to do was die for the sins of the people he couldn't stand to live without. I'm with you on the whole exploiting business, I don't agree with that and think that if Jesus were here today he would come into all these super churches and clear them out like he did in the Temple when they were exploiting the people there. Jesus agrees with you. I'm not about religion, I'm about loving God and receiving his love and loving people, it's about a relationship. I'm a Christ follower, not a Christian, that name has been to misused.

I'd love to hear your response! Take care!

 

[neilius73]

So here's the deal, what I'm most confused about is how you can "open your mind" while simultaneously deciding there "cannot be a God." Unfortunately it doesn't matter what you, I or anyone else decides in our minds to be true about such things.

Just a thought to throw out there, if you are right and we die and nothing happens then I will have nothing to loose, I will have spent my life believing I had a personal relationship with the Creator of the Universe and having joy from His Love I imagined to be for me, I will die and that will be the end. BUT, on the other hand, if I am right and there is a God who loves you intensely and a Savior who died for our sins so that we can have a relationship with Him and that this is the only way to get to Heaven, then what?

I also think the Universe is a beautiful place but it's a very sad thing to not have any explanation for it, that leaves us with no purpose. Don't you ever wonder why you're here, how everything got here? So what if we forgot about religion? I believe Jesus came to destroy RELIGION. Religion has kept more people from God than anything else. What Jesus came to do was die for the sins of the people he couldn't stand to live without. I'm with you on the whole exploiting business, I don't agree with that and think that if Jesus were here today he would come into all these super churches and clear them out like he did in the Temple when they were exploiting the people there. Jesus agrees with you. I'm not about religion, I'm about loving God and receiving his love and loving people, it's about a relationship. I'm a Christ follower, not a Christian, that name has been to misused.

I'd love to hear your response! Take care!

Sorry i've taken so long in a response, ive had a few complications in my life and am not online at home anymore, and won't be for a few weeks now.

First off, if your right about Christianity being 'the only way', then i'm afraid that the opening two paragraphs of chapter two of Richard Dawkins' God delusion sum up God better than any words i can come up with.
Think about it. Why can't God just forgive us instead of a blood sacrifice of his only son? The blood sacrifice; a ritual straight from the stone age which should have no place, or even meaning in todays world.

In which case, i will be send straight to Hell when i die, for all time and eternity, BUT GOD LOVES YOU!! It doesnt make any sense at all to any thinking mind, just take a little REASON and you will see LOGICALLY that it's all BUNK.

How are you now, Neil?

Very well, Thankyou! And you?

 

[Adam.121]

Im athiest and it seems funny for me to understand evoulution at Twelve But i was born with the mind of a genius
i was forced into christianity like most kids
and all it was
OBEY GOD OR GO TO HELL!!!!!!
yeah i can truly get the picture of a careing loveing god
A loveing careing god would truly damn a 12 year old boy to hell
Thats faith at its best isnt it
I remeber when i was christian i felt so restricted i could never truly show my genius
I could never dream of something better no religion would not let me The artist was not free to paint the art
It was horrible i felt dumb when i finaly relaised you could become athiest i quit christianity without a second thought
Now i am free to express my self without a fear of hell
For me hell is gone i am happy sure heaven doesent exsist but i dont honestly care
when i die i black out forever no emotion or anything fine with me
since im dead i wont regret anything will i because i cant
thats why i say make the most out of your time on earth since no one knows what lies beyond why waste it why kill your self hopeing to meet god and then he does not exsist
Cherish the time you have got to live
but im happy that their are more athiests besides me

 

[Adam.121]

Idiots christianity stole everything from pagans
Christmas easter every holiday you have is pagan
You just stole everything from them to wipe them out
-SHAME ON U!-

 

[SiderealExalt]

I have to agree with the OP. The completely natural mechanisms of the universe, and the various ways in which it's complexity is perceivable to us is quite an amazing thing. And that wonder comes with the knowledge that I, this planet, and humanity as a whole is not only NOT the conerstone of this universe, but is a rather tiny, and ultimately insignificant speck upon it. Yet this knowledge has not sunken me into the depths of depression(the pettiness of people does that quite well thank you), nor has freed me from my conscience and my self of personal ethical obligation.

In fact, it has strengthened it some ways. This life is it. I neither have the stomach to accept the lie of, nor the convenience of wishfulness in the desire to believe I will live beyond my physical death. I don't do certain good things or avoid certain bad things because I desire or am in need of some sort of supernatural reward system. Or feel that I need to avoid the pitfalls of an imaginary spiritual torment. And the understanding that my conscience may be personal and my set of morals are my expression of subjective if shared views does not hinder my ability to commit to them. But it does remind me not to take myself for granted, or think an outside force of institution is infallible. My morality requires maintenance and personal reflection.

I've never been Christian, and I have no desire to become one. That has been true my whole life, was true when at nine I walked out of a church and is still true. I find that religion, and ultimately all religions immoral. For a variety of reasons. And I don't plan on taking up such bad habits as the adoption of immoral behavior.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

In which case, i will be send straight to Hell when i die, for all time and eternity, BUT GOD LOVES YOU!! It doesnt make any sense at all to any thinking mind, just take a little REASON and you will see LOGICALLY that it's all BUNK.

You keep citing Dawkins. So I have to ask, do you now hold to the view that there are multi-verses? Do you now supposrt the idea of our being placed here by aliens?

You keep saying be logical, and yet if you take a step back, you can see that Dawkins is so desperate to deny the existence of God that he's now talking about multi-verses and aliens. He demands proof from Christianity; allow me to make the same request: what shred of proof is there that aliens are multi-verses are the truth? He claims science... ok. But being desperate to deny the existence of God to such an extent isn't science - that's all spiritual.

You are/were a Christian: how could something as woeful as the atheist perception of salvation have convinced you like this? God loves us so much He has given us a free pass OUT of hell. He doesn't send us there - He's the way out of it. If people *choose* to go there, how on earth can you then blame God for it? He gave us free will - that's how much He loves us. He loves us so much He'll allow us to choose to be away from Him, despite how much it hurts Him.

Atheists see Him as a cruel God who sends people to hell, and they're wrong. He is a loving God who has given us a free pass out of it.

Neil, you're aligning yourself with an anti-theist who is becoming increasingly unstable. Even his peers have distanced themselves from him. You've allowed all the rhetoric in TGD to convince you, and while all the hyperbole in TGD is persuasive, it's also false, and that's what it comes down to. You have to choose which path is right for you - we all do. But don't blindly follow Dawkins' one.

 

[SiderealExalt]

Note. Munchkin is intentional misrepresenting a line by Dawkins about the closest thing that could come to ID in the universe is if an advanced alien life came and started abiogenesis on the planet. Dawkins isn't presenting it as his opinion of what started the processes of life on this planet. But far be it for me to let a bs artist continue to well....bs.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Note. Munchkin is intentional misrepresenting a line by Dawkins about the closest thing that could come to ID in the universe is if an advanced alien life came and started abiogenesis on the planet. Dawkins isn't presenting it as his opinion of what started the processes of life on this planet. But far be it for me to let a bs artist continue to well....bs.

"Bs artist"? Well, sure, if you slip a flame in, that proves the veracity of your position.

I understand that Dawkins is like a messiah to anti-theists, so his being called on his nonsense is something many take personally. But I've not misrepresented a single thing. He is desperate to deny the existence of God - thus aliens and multi-verses. Desperate groping for *any* theory that scratches God out of it, regardless of how fanciful. We're entitled to disagree - but keep your flames to yourself. Particularly when you don't know the person you're flaming.

Neil: really, we all choose our own path, and all we can do is follow that path as best we can. No-one has the right to judge you or subjugate you if this is the path you're now choosing. But don't choose it simply because of Dawkins. That's not "rational atheism"; it's rhetoric and anti-theism.

 

[SiderealExalt]

"Bs artist"? Well, sure, if you slip a flame in, that proves the veracity of your position.

I call em like I see em. And I didn't mean to say I THINK you're misrepresenting the man's statement. I'm saying I KNOW you are.

I understand that Dawkins is like a messiah to anti-theists, so his being called on his nonsense is something many take personally. But I've not misrepresented a single thing. He is desperate to deny the existence of God - thus aliens and multi-verses. Desperate groping for *any* theory that scratches God out of it, regardless of how fanciful. We're entitled to disagree - but keep your flames to yourself. Particularly when you don't know the person you're flaming.

I'm going to forgive you because you probably don't read most of my posts. That said. You have in fact been if not much misrepresenting but lying. Lying is bad. I think the Christian God says it's bad. Though I'm not sure. Anywho. I doubt Dawkins is any more "desperate" to deny the Christian God, than the Christians are desperate to deny EVERY other God ever invented by man other than the Christian God. But honestly. I am not at all surprised to see a supernaturalist spin a statement like that. And I even down his statement was supposed to make fun of Intelligent Design. ID does a good job of that itself. And in considerations of his lengthy discourses in natural selection. Blatantly ignoring that to make some cokimammy rant about him being a wacko talking about aliens as a form of psuedo-ID is well...what I and many others expect from people that purport it.

Anything that takes the eyes of people off of scientific fact and the lack there of in some things(like ID) is greatly desired by Creationists. And sorry but..... Christianity or any other religion for that matter isn't free from criticism. Play it up and call it rhetoric and anti-theism though if you want.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Let me ask you something: do you spend time in GA? That's the only way I can imagine anyone thinking it's ok to speak to people the way you're talking. People become desensitized to abuse in there - which is precisely why so many of us avoid it. I'll be honest: I don't know how to deal with people as aggressive as you. When I was an atheist, I got in the middle and mixed it up. Now, though, I tend to avoid arguments and confrontation, so that's what I'm going to do now. But I'll ask for your forgiveness for having offended you. I would never, ever intentionally offend someone.

Incidentally, I'm not a creationist, but I get that to you, a "supernaturalist" is to be derided and ridiculed regardless. That so many people choose to do so at a Christian forum is still surprising to me, but it is what it is. Am glad, at least, that there is a place here for non-Christians.

It's funny: I read your post and it's intentionally hurtful, so part of me wants to snipe back. The vestiges of a bad habit formed prior to meeting Christ. It becomes about ego, doesn't it? Who can prove they're more knowledgable; who can be more snide; who can win. But it's not a game any Christian ought to play, because we need to glorify God, not our own egos. You win, absolutely, and without argument. If you wish to call me names and prescribe motive to me, I need to let you do that without trying to defend myself. It's hard talking to people who dislike Christians, because anything we say opens us up to attack can be misconstrued, so am just talking away and being honest. What you then make of it is arbitrary. But, yeah, if you need to think am somehow lying, or if you need to assign some pejoratives, that's ok.

Am here to support someone I care about, and that's it. So, again, am truly sorry for having offended you. Take care.

 

[Nazzul]

It's good to see other born again atheists around here.

 

[neilius73]

What a debate! The good news is that i will be back online next week, so i will be able to converse in a bit more depth to the replies in this thread.

Greenmunchkin (munchie!): I don't 'totally' agree with everything that Dawkins says or has written; I understand your concerns.
I will be in touch when im back online.

Take care all, Ta ta for now!

 

[seremela06]

I think you should come back to Christianity

Seriously if you come back now maybe you can still be a Christian.

Well I think that you can lose your salvation forever.. Not sure.

um... no. if he decides to do his own things for 80 years and then wants to come back to god, he can. god picks us up EVERY time we fall. trust me... been there.

 

[seashale76]

Hey folks!

Ive finally decided to open my mind and realise that there cannot be a God, in the religious sense of the word.
It all makes sense now, and such a burden of wether or not there is or not is removed as it no longer clouds my thinking.

The universe is a very beautiful place that doesnt need to be explained. It just is.period.

I wish the rest of mankind would wake up to the fact that religions are run by an elitist few to control the many. Also all of the newage jazz is just another moneyspinner; for example, whenever i go to a website with a paypal donation sign, when the website is supposed to be about someone or some organisation that is already rolling in money, i smell a rat, unfortunately they still make money out of the gullible and uneducated.

So, in closing, i'd like to say; Stuff the hearafter, and concentrate on life NOW, because a life lived in anticipation of the hearafter isnt a life at all, in fact, its a form of death worship.

Peace.

Why are you posting this in Struggles By Non-Christians, considering you don't seem to think this is a struggle? You're coming off as zealous as any new convert to their faith. Are you wanting people to attempt to get you to stay in the faith? If so, why? Aren't you incredibly happy in your current situation? Or, perhaps you've mistaken this board as one to proselytize others into your idea of enlightenment, in which case, it should be no mystery to you that it is against board rules here? Regardless, your argument for our conversion is a bit lacking. I'm sure people will be chomping at the bit to sign up after you've likened them to the gullible and uneducated masses.

Peace? This thread has the smell of someone intentionally trying to stir up division. You bring a sword.

My apologies if I seem to be misinterpreting your intentions.

Lord, have mercy.

 

[DerSchweik]

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