Boot camp

Why, otherwise, would soldiers feel NOTHING (except maybe "shell shock")after dropping an atomic bomb on a mostly civilian city, after carpet-bombing innocent women and children with napalm and poisoning them with herbicides, or firing a missile into a 45 member wedding party to kill one alleged "terrorist" who was not even there?

well the main reason i can think of is that all the forms of murder you mentioned are seriously detached from the act. all of them are thousands of feet in the air, and you cant see your victim.

i think it would be very different if they had to watch them die and see the expression on their face. the realisation that you just killed someone, are responsible for grieving families and how they and their families could be very similar to yours just doesnt come across when you dont see them when you kill them.

but what would i know? heathens dont have feelings afterall.
 
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Lynn

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Originally posted by Susan
I agree with the sentiments in the OP, that is why I oppose the military in principle and I am highly suspicious of those who have served. Although people deny that "murder" and acceptance therof is part of the training, I believe it has to be.

Why, otherwise, would soldiers feel NOTHING (except maybe "shell shock")after dropping an atomic bomb on a mostly civilian city, after carpet-bombing innocent women and children with napalm and poisoning them with herbicides, or firing a missile into a 45 member wedding party to kill one alleged "terrorist" who was not even there?

I think that you are making unwarranted assumptions. You have NO IDEA what military members feel or think. It seems that you think that we were/are just robots who do as they are programmed. Believe it or not, those in the military have families, churches, morals, and feelings.

lynn
 
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My Higher Self

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Originally posted by gunnysgt
Marines are different: distinct not only from ordinary U.S. citizens but from the ranks of the army, navy, and air force as well. The difference begins with boot camp at Parris Island, South Carolina, where the history and future of the United States Marine Corps intersect in the training of every new recruit. In Making the Corps, Ricks follows a platoon of young men through 11 grueling weeks of boot camp as their drill instructors indoctrinate them into the culture of the Few and the Proud. Many arrive at Parris Island undisciplined and apathetic; they leave as marines.
With the end of the cold war, the role of the American military has shifted in emphasis from making war to keeping peace. "The best way to see where the U.S. military is going is to look at the marines today," says Ricks, as the other armed forces have begun to emulate the marine model. To understand Parris Island--a central experience in the life of every marine--is to understand the ethos of the Marine Corps. Ricks examines the recent changes in the Standard Operating Procedures for Recruit Training (the bible of Parris Island), which indicate how the corps is dealing with critical social and political issues like race relations, gender equality, and sexual orientation. Making the Corps pierces the USMC's "sis-boom-bah" mythology to help outsiders understand this most esoteric and eccentric of U.S. armed forces. --Tim Hogan

 

I don't know that Marines are much different in their soldiering skills as those of other services, but I can say one thing about the Marines that impresses me everytime I meet one: Their pride in the Corps. Its absolutely amazing how much pride they take in their chosen service. I don't know exactly what they do to recruits, but the Army, Airforce, and Navy could learn a thing or two from the Marines in that respect. I have been the the Army over 8 years and would love the soldiers to take as much pride in the Army as the Marines do in the Corps.

I'd like to second the notion that in basic, the yelling, put downs and strict discipline doesn't so much mold you as a person as it does point out the ones that can't handle the stress. War is a very, very stressful environment, and those that can't handle the stress would not make it and would put their team mates at risk.

The military (the Army anyway) doesn't give you psychological training on how to deal with killing enemy soldiers, they don't tell you this is what you will feel, this is how to react, they dont' do that, what they do is they find, through selective training, those with the moral convictions and strength of character that it takes to do the job and come home in one piece. Then they give you the skills with which to do that.

For those of you that are "suspicious" of military personnel, perhaps you should do a little self evaluation. They are not robots...they are people, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, christians. They do have minds of their own, and believe it or not...a conscience. Soldiers are not people to be looked down on, but to be looked up to, as they are the ones that make it possible for our way of life here to continue as it does. In a perfect world the military could step down and say "I am not gonna kill because its wrong"...but unfortunately, the rest of the world doesn't feel that way. So this is the way it has to be.
 
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Gunny

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Originally posted by Susan
I agree with the sentiments in the OP, that is why I oppose the military in principle and I am highly suspicious of those who have served.

Your freedom to mistrust the military and state it openly, and the freedoms you have as an American Citizen were bought and paid for by the blood of men of women of these United States who served their country proudly in the Armed Services before you were even born. These "murderers" you speak of fought for the freedom of the United States and other countries around the world.

GySgt James
 
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Michael0701

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Susan,

I have no misconception in believing that anything I may say to you will change your mind about those of us who have and who continue and who some day will put their lives on the line to protect and defend you.

I do not share your pacifist point of view.  But I am praying for peace not war.  I have to ask you, don't you feel you have a God given right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?  Don't you enjoy the fact that you can worship God as you wish.  I see by your profile that you are a Christian, are you aware that today there are Christians all around the world who are being murdered and tortured for their beliefs?  If not for the military, who would protect and defend you?  Ok, I'm sure you are saying that you are not asking for anyone to do so, but there are a great many who do.  It is for them (and you) that we serve.

My parents are displaced persons (today we call them refugees) from western Ukraine.  I was raised that America was the greatest country on earth by them for those reasons that I mentioned above, because we live in a land where we could worship God as we believed.  Where my parents came from the church was underground (yes, just as in roman times).  And the gulags were filled with priests and nuns and believers.  So I know what it is like to not have those freedoms.  The stories my parents would tell ......

Like I said, I know that these few words won't change your mind, but I do hope they just make you think.

Peace in Christ,

Mikey
 
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Wolseley

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Susan, I'm sorry, but you don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. You know nothing about the military or the people who are serving or have served.

I mean no disrespect to you, but you have a lot to learn.
 
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MyJhongFist

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Originally posted by Doctrine1st
MyJhongFist,

Not knowing when you served. Do you think that when they had the draft the priorities of who they selected kind of changed, where they were more inclined to take every "swinging-____" (you know how they put it) and had to turn those they had with "killology"

Peace, D1st

1991-1996 was my time-line.  3 years regular Navy and 2 years attached to a SEaL team, after completing BUDs training.

I don't know if the requirements have changed.  But I would say, with 99 percent probability, that the standards for any elite force stay the same.

I would be disappointed to know that, regardless of the situation, the military was desperately searching for anyone who could just kill.

As a tradition in boot camp, all of the weak minded "schlubs" (a Navy term) are dismissed.  Those who can make it, will do so, without their values being re-written.
 
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O'Mara

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Originally posted by Susan
I agree with the sentiments in the OP, that is why I oppose the military in principle and I am highly suspicious of those who have served. Although people deny that "murder" and acceptance therof is part of the training, I believe it has to be.

You are a very negative person. Christians shouldn't make generalizations about stuff like this.

It's no wonder that racism continues to have such a grip in the US. It's no different to say "I am highly suspicious of any one who has ever served in the military," as "I am higly suspicious of anyone who is of Irish descent."

It's predjudice and immoral.
 
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coastie

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I agree with the sentiments in the OP, that is why I oppose the military in principle and I am highly suspicious of those who have served. Although people deny that "murder" and acceptance therof is part of the training, I believe it has to be.

*Gasp*

Anyone who served in the military is a very suspicious character in deed!

Gunny, Eldermike, Dewjunkie, MSBS, Cenimo, Wolsley and all of you others... next time I hear of a crime in your neck of the woods... you can bet that the police wil knock down your door first.

I can hear the sherriffs now

sherrif: "Round up the usual suspects."

deputy: "Will do! I have the VFW and American Legion on speed dial!"

LOL
 
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fieldsofwind

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A selection process is designed to find the individual who will continue to strive for a goal when most others will quit. Now... the difficulty level of the selection process will determine the caliber of individual you will recieve regarding this aspect. The greater its difficulty (the more people quit) the more proficient the soldier will be *usually*. He will be able to think *competently* under extreme stress--operate in extreme conditions--fight when others don't want to--and therefore will usually win.

BUD/S is considered by many to be the hardest military selection process in the world, which is why so many people say they have been through it. However, 9 out of 10 people who say, "yea, I was in the SEAL teams back in ---- " never really were. I know about 7 guys who went to BUD/S... only one of those men made it.

All one has to do is produce a class number and name, and it can be verified via a website that authenticates SEAL claims. They are former SEALs who have a data-base which the Navy provides for them of all BUD/S graduates from each class. I do hope that the individual claiming such things on this web-site will provide his class number and name.

take care
 
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coastie

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Originally posted by fieldsofwind
A selection process is designed to find the individual who will continue to strive for a goal when most others will quit. Now... the difficulty level of the selection process will determine the caliber of individual you will recieve regarding this aspect. The greater its difficulty (the more people quit) the more proficient the soldier will be *usually*. He will be able to think *competently* under extreme stress--operate in extreme conditions--fight when others don't want to--and therefore will usually win.

BUD/S is considered by many to be the hardest military selection process in the world, which is why so many people say they have been through it. However, 9 out of 10 people who say, "yea, I was in the SEAL teams back in ---- " never really were. I know about 7 guys who went to BUD/S... only one of those men made it.

All one has to do is produce a class number and name, and it can be verified via a website that authenticates SEAL claims. They are former SEALs who have a data-base which the Navy provides for them of all BUD/S graduates from each class. I do hope that the individual claiming such things on this web-site will provide his class number and name.

take care

That's a great site, some of my shipmates and I were reading through it a couple of months ago. We got quite a few laughs out of some of the stories.

Would you care to PM me that link, I can't seem to find it anymore. :)

A far as the toughest training in the world, you should see what the North Koreans put their special forces guys through. Scary bunch! ;)
 
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