Books left out of the Bible

Goatee

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Lots of books were left out of the Bible when it was 'assembled' by the Catholic Church via the Holy Spirit all those years ago.

Now, does it mean that the many 'Gospels' 'letters' etc are not worth reading or should not be read? Are there many truths to be taught by reading them or are there too many lies contained within them?

I don't want this to be a Catholic bashing thread.

Let's just discuss my questions. Thank you
 

rockytopva

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14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, - Jude

I believe Jude got that from the book of Enoch. If so, should not the Book of Enoch be included in the Bible?
 
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SkyWriting

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Lots of books were left out of the Bible when it was 'assembled' by the Catholic Church via the Holy Spirit all those years ago.

Now, does it mean that the many 'Gospels' 'letters' etc are not worth reading or should not be read? Are there many truths to be taught by reading them or are there too many lies contained within them?

I don't want this to be a Catholic bashing thread.

Let's just discuss my questions. Thank you

The scriptures are 100% perfect due to the nature of the subject being perfect.
Otherwise we'd be reading the original manuscript languages.
But other books are not inspired by the H.S. Look for yourself.
 
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tampasteve

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Lots of books were left out of the Bible when it was 'assembled' by the Catholic Church via the Holy Spirit all those years ago.

Now, does it mean that the many 'Gospels' 'letters' etc are not worth reading or should not be read? Are there many truths to be taught by reading them or are there too many lies contained within them?

I think they can be of great value, but we need to read them in light of the other canonical books. As they are believed to be un-inspired, they may have value, but if something contradicts scripture then t must be left aside as these books are not canonical. That said, I think it only applies to some books such as the Book of Enoch, Prayer of Manasseh, 1,2,3 Meqabyan, Jubilees, some Esdras, and perhaps the Shepherd of Hermas. Some of these are canonical in other Christian (particuarly OO Churches) Traditions.
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, - Jude

I believe Jude got that from the book of Enoch. If so, should not the Book of Enoch be included in the Bible?
The Ethiopian and Eritrian Churches consider it canonical.
 
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PropheticTimes

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I believe that the Bible as we know it has the books in it which fit the theme of the Creator bringing His creation to salvation and redemption.

I believe that extra-Biblical books can help to open up information on things only skimmed on in the canon. However, it is important that any extra-Biblical texts are measured against canonized Scripture. If a book goes blatantly against what is taught in the Bible then I would consider it "not an inspired writing".

There are many books not in the canon that are spoken of in Scripture; some we have access to (Enoch, Jasher, Jubilees) and some we do not.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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My view is the added books are not canon. They were created by other people and clash with many other "normal" bible books. So much so that it changes everything. I could list a few examples such as prayer beads. But one I recently thought about is how it says "Mary, mother of God.". Thats blasphemy. She is the mother of Jesus, not God. We can get into technical terms like "Well Jesus is God!", but it doesn't matter since Jesus was born in this world and hence Mary is the mother of Jesus, not God Himself.

My other feeling is the most common bibles around the world do not include those added books because they are not seen as canon. So if its part of Gods plan that His true Word be out there, then the catholic bible would be the normal bible.

Then again I don't want to sound like I am bashing catholics either because I am not. I just disagree with the extra books. If they were meant to be in there then they would be in perfect harmony with the rest of the bible.
 
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dysert

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I've been questioning that myself lately, especially wrt Enoch. The problem is, though, that these non-canonical books may contain falsehoods. How are we to know what parts of them are true and what parts are not? Sure, whatever can be corroborated by the canonical books will be true, but what about the parts that are neither substantiated nor refuted by the 66? One could get into dangerous territory.
 
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tampasteve

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"Mary, mother of God.". Thats blasphemy. She is the mother of Jesus, not God. We can get into technical terms like "Well Jesus is God!", but it doesn't matter since Jesus was born in this world and hence Mary is the mother of Jesus, not God Himself.
The proper term is Theotokos which is usually translated "God-bearer". Perhaps that would put your mind more at ease? Mary did in fact bear God as Jesus is of course God.
My other feeling is the most common bibles around the world do not include those added books because they are not seen as canon. So if its part of Gods plan that His true Word be out there, then the catholic bible would be the normal bible.
Well, since the RCC is the largest Christian church, and the EO and OO churches also use many to most, or even more, of these books we might be able to say that at least some of them are in fact the "normal" books.

I'll stick with Martin Luther on this subject:
" Apocrypha, that are books which are not considered equal to the Holy Scriptures, but are useful and good to read."
 
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tampasteve

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I've been questioning that myself lately, especially wrt Enoch. The problem is, though, that these non-canonical books may contain falsehoods. How are we to know what parts of them are true and what parts are not? Sure, whatever can be corroborated by the canonical books will be true, but what about the parts that are neither substantiated nor refuted by the 66? One could get into dangerous territory.

Personally, I think about it in this hierarchy:
Protestant Bible
Catholic Bible
Ethiopian Orthodox Bible
Other deuterocanonical books

We all agree on the Protestant books, the Catholic books are likely inspired, but were removed for various reasons, most of which are not necessarily doctrinal. The Ethiopians add Enoch, which has some pretty cool stories, but does not affect the Christ narrative for salvation....and the other books are interesting to read and have value, but we must know our canonical Bible well enough to judge.
 
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SBC

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Lots of books were left out of the Bible when it was 'assembled' by the Catholic Church via the Holy Spirit all those years ago.

Now, does it mean that the many 'Gospels' 'letters' etc are not worth reading or should not be read? Are there many truths to be taught by reading them or are there too many lies contained within them?

I don't want this to be a Catholic bashing thread.

Let's just discuss my questions. Thank you

Books, scrolls, letters, ie writings were obviously considered on multiply levels to consider their inclusion in a collection; to be called the Bible.

We are not privy to all the written material available or considered, nor sure of all the authors.
Nor are we privy to all the knowledge Christ Jesus taught the disciples.

John.21
  1. [25] And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

History is not unique to what occurs today. Meaning; anyone can write and publish their own thoughts, ideas, philosophies and opinions on any topic, including doctrines about religion.

I find the KJV quite sufficient in revealing knowledge I believe God desires me to have.

Other books not included I find interesting.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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Yarddog

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14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, - Jude

I believe Jude got that from the book of Enoch. If so, should not the Book of Enoch be included in the Bible?
No. Simply put, the Jewish books used by the early Church was those of the Septuagint and Enoch was not found in this. The OP was probably writing about the Church assembling the books of the New Testament.
 
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Goatee

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No. Simply put, the Jewish books used by the early Church was those of the Septuagint and Enoch was not found in this. The OP was probably writing about the Church assembling the books of the New Testament.

Yes. Plus the other 'Gospels' we see that are not included. Are they worth reading? I have been interested in these but never read any except St Thomas Gospel.
 
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Yarddog

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But one I recently thought about is how it says "Mary, mother of God.". Thats blasphemy. She is the mother of Jesus, not God. We can get into technical terms like "Well Jesus is God!", but it doesn't matter since Jesus was born in this world and hence Mary is the mother of Jesus, not God Himself.
The term is not blasphemy since it is the truth. Jesus is God and Mary gave birth to his flesh. Scripture calls Mary his mother so there is no reason to take this thread off track.
 
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rockytopva

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I believe that the complete bible would have more than likely contained 77 books. Paul may have written an epistle while in Spain. There are also unknown books referred to in the OT...

And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon? - 1 Kings 11:41

Now the rest of the acts of Nadab, and all that he did, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Israel? - 1 Kings 14:31 (I believe Kings was actually the chronicle s of the kings of Judah and Israel.)

Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat? - 2 Chronicles 9:29

Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last, are they not written in the book of Shemaiah the prophet, and of Iddo the seer concerning genealogies? - 2 Chronicles 12:15
 
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Yarddog

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Yes. Plus the other 'Gospels' we see that are not included. Are they worth reading? I have been interested in these but never read any except St Thomas Gospel.
I don't put much account into the other "Gospels" though some of the early writers did, though most didn't arise until the 2nd century. The Gospel of St. Thomas is a recent find and none of the truly early writers mention it. The first mention came in the 3rd century.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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The term is not blasphemy since it is the truth. Jesus is God and Mary gave birth to his flesh. Scripture calls Mary his mother so there is no reason to take this thread off track.
His flesh, meaning Jesus, not God. They are one, but Jesus was not God while on earth per say. That said your saying there is no reason to take this thread off track yet the thread is about books of the bible.
 
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Yarddog

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His flesh, meaning Jesus, not God.
Tell how you separate the two.
They are one, but Jesus was not God while on earth per say.
Now, that may not blasphemy but it sure is heresy.
That said your saying there is no reason to take this thread off track yet the thread is about books of the bible.
The OP is about the other books which some call gospels and if they are worthy of being read, not what the ancient Church believed about Jesus, which, BTW, was that Jesus was always God.
 
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Phantasman

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As one who has sought Truth outside of the box (Bible), I will attest that there are some things the non Canon Gospels and Christian books that highlight the Canon Gospels above all other books in the Bible.

The Canon Gospels are written as the Acts of Jesus. His physical teachings as well as physical actions. His words of spirit John 6:63 are to teach us how to pray and how to seek (the Fathers will through the Holy Spirit). The non Canon books go into greater detail of knowledge and spiritual understanding.

One must know that during Christs time with us, many many heard his message. And many followed his instruction of truth (small t). So one must ask, if he taught so much, why 4 Gospels, all saying the same thing. Most scholars will agree that by the end of the first century, there were more than 100 Gospels. So many churches teaching what they had been taught by:

The 70 Jesus sent out (Luke 10:1) were teaching the "Kingdom of God" as well. John saw others teaching that weren't with them. Mark 9:38-41. So there was much going on due to Christs message to others. Mark didn't walk with Jesus and neither did Luke, but we seek out their message in spirit (physical names mean nothing). So titles should not be taken as spiritual truth.

For 25 years I was a devout Orthodox believer. But the last twenty years, I have been reading and praying on those books and scriptures that were circulating in the 1-3 century (Pre Nicene). After all my studies, I see the separation of the "church". What Jesus wanted as a church and what the Nicene Creed gave us. To understand this, one must see the whole picture (of the Gospel) and not just the part that benefits the Nicene creators. If you see something in Thomas as Jesus saying:

Jesus said, "Whoever does not hate his father and his mother cannot become a disciple to me. And whoever does not hate his brothers and sisters and take up his cross in my way will not be worthy of me."

You see it as the world see's it. Hate my mother, you say? Nonsense. But Jesus was speaking spirit, and no one understands spirit unless they have ears (and eyes).

Matthew said it best:
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

The reason the Catholics would not use the other books is because they create a different perspective of who/what God is. But the Bible itself shows that as well, that the OT God and the Father of Jesus is two different Gods.

I'll stop there. But am open to expound or answer any questions.
 
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Phantasman

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The term is not blasphemy since it is the truth. Jesus is God and Mary gave birth to his flesh. Scripture calls Mary his mother so there is no reason to take this thread off track.

And the flesh profits nothing. John 6:63 Mary has no spiritual relevance.
 
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Phantasman

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Tell how you separate the two.

Now, that may not blasphemy but it sure is heresy.

The OP is about the other books which some call gospels and if they are worthy of being read, not what the ancient Church believed about Jesus, which, BTW, was that Jesus was always God.

I disagree. Jesus was a part of God we could identify with. No one can conceive God the Father. He continually said he was "of" the Father. That the Father was greater than him (much more than he was).

Believing Jesus and God the Father were one in the same is spiritual ignorance. We can't know the Father, but we can know Christ. Doesn't sound the same person to me.
 
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