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BOOK RECOMMENDATION: Israel 1948 Countdown To No Where

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by random person, Sep 25, 2014.

  1. random person

    random person 1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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    The church now represents all of Israel. Remember the olive branches!

    There is no more identity separating the Jews from the Gentiles anymore. They both represent Israel now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  2. yogosans14

    yogosans14 Newbie

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    Remember when Jesus said to watch the fig tree when the disciples asked him what would the signs be about his coming...the fig tree is Israel. Many christians including myself are watching the fig tree...Jesus is coming very soon
     
  3. random person

    random person 1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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    Does Jesus ever mention any fruit on His "Lesson Of The Fig Tree"?

    But if one knows anything about fig trees is that the leaves appear in the late spring. So when one see the leaves of the fig tree appear, that means summer is near. Likewise Jesus was saying when the first century Christians see the signs listed off by Jesus in Matthew 24:1-31 appears, they were to identify that the Great Tribulation, the Abomination of Desolation, the destruction of the Jerusalem and the Temple was also near. And that once they had seen these signs they were commanded by our LORD to flee out of Jerusalem and into the mountains were they were safe from the 3.5 year siege of Jerusalem and safe from the Roman massacre of the Jews in A.D. 70 in which over a million Jews were killed, men, women, and children. While the survivors were sold as slaves and dispersed throughout the Empire. The Christians were told to stay away for 45 days after the destruction of Jerusalem.

    Here is a quote I wrote in my wide margin bible on the Matthew 24:32-35 passage:

    This greatly abused text is always applied to Israel becoming a nation again in 1948 AD when in fact, it is prophesying the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Of the 39 places in the Bible where "fig tree" is used, never is Israel called a fig tree. The "Parable of the Fig Tree" is the only other possible place where Israel is connected with a "fig tree" (Luke 13:6-9). Notice that if this is Israel as a nation, then it is a prophecy of it being replaced by the church at the end of Jesus' 3 year ministry and/or the destruction of the Jerusalem in 70 AD. So the only two possible passages in the Bible were a "fig tree" is associated with Israel both describes Israel's destruction, not restoration!

    The sign of the fig tree is not Israel's restoration, it is Israel's destruction.
     
  4. yogosans14

    yogosans14 Newbie

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    Hosea 9:10 says, "When I found Israel, it was like finding grapes in the desert; when I saw your fathers, it was like seeing the early fruit on the fig tree."
     
  5. random person

    random person 1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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    The prophet is speaking of fruit, not the appearance of leaves on a fig tree in late spring.

    Fig trees grow their fruit in the fall.
     
  6. random person

    random person 1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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    Correction:

    Fig trees produce leaves in late spring (near summer)

    Fig trees produces figs in late summer or in the fall.

    So the analogy that the lesson of the fig tree totally blows up in the faces of those that believe it is speaking of Israel's restoration.
     
  7. Targaryen

    Targaryen Scripture,Tradition and Reason

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    Good book choice random person :thumbsup:

    Course the dispensationalists are having a heart attack their theology is getting exposed for what it really is now.

    But good book.
     
  8. yogosans14

    yogosans14 Newbie

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    No....I recommend Hagees book "Blood Moons" :thumbsup:
     
  9. simonthezealot

    simonthezealot have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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    Show me this in scripture.
    Show where God promises to make israel non-existant?
    Tell me why it is you find none of the other early biblical tribes yet it's impossible to scrub out the Israelites?
    covenant theology spiritualizes literature while core dispensationalist (church and israel still exist) literalise scripture.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  10. random person

    random person 1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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    Thank you! This 72 book filled with loads of information and thoroughly disputes dispensationalism. This book is a gem.

    There are different schools of preterism of course, some are partial preterist amillennialists, partial preterist postmillennialist, partial preterist postmillennial dominionist, full/hyper preterist, etc.

    However, no matter what school of thought their personal preterism is, it is usually immaterial because a whole lot of these authors are writing outstanding material defending preterism and exposing the fallacies of dispensationalism and futurism.

    For instance, John Noē looks to have an outstanding book coming out in 2016, titled The Israel Illusion, that I can't wait to get my hands on. He has samples of the book available on his website (I will post up a partial portion of each article accompanied with an URL):

    Israel:

    Perhaps no more volatile or politically charged issue has exploded onto the front page of the world scene and into the Church than that of the contemporary role, or non-role, of the modern-day nation of Israel in fulfillment of end-time Bible prophecy.

    Ever since its re-birth in 1948, an end-time obsession has characterized popular Christianity. Prophecy charts, rapture movies, best-selling books, and Antichrist speculations abound. Apparently, the stage is set. Israel is ground zero. How do Israeli Jews feel about their upcoming prophetic role and the pending Battle of Armageddon? Their wooing of Christians and prophecy popularizers has paid off handsomely.


    Israel » Prophecy Reformation Institute


    __________


    Misconception #1

    1948 marked the fulfillment of all ‘return-to-the-land’ biblical prophecies and signaled the beginning of the end!

    One huge problem: the immediate historical settings for the literal fulfillment of all “return-to-the-land” prophecies were one of two returns of the Jews from either Assyrian or Babylonian exile/captivity in the 8th and 6th/5th Centuries B.C., respectively. Why? Because all return prophecies were given prior to or during those exile periods:

    ·Pre-exilic return prophecies – Isa. 11:11-12; 14:1-2; 27:12-13;
    ·Jer. 16:15; 23:3,7-8; 29:10,14; 32:28, 37-44; 50:4-5;
    ·Amos 9:11, 14-15; Zeph. 3:19-20.

    ·Mid-exilic return prophecies – Dan. 9:25; Isa. 43:5-7; 49:8;
    ·Ezek. 11:16-18; 20:41-42; 34:12-13; 36:8, 24; 37:12, 21-23;
    ·39:28; Zech. 2:6; 8:7-8; 9:12; 10:8-12]


    Misconception #1 » Prophecy Reformation Institute

    __________



    Misconception #2

    The 1948 re-establishment of the modern-day nation of Israel was the greatest prophetic sign ever fulfilled and a miraculous ‘act of God.’

    Farthest thing from it. One only has to read the history of Zionism (the Jewish nationalistic movement, 1800’s thru 1948) and you’ll discover how truly ungodly it was. It’s a sad history of political maneuvering and racial hatred. As a result, the costs have been huge and the conflicts unending. What passed as a national rebirth for Jews uprooted in the process hundreds of thousands of Arab residents from their homes.

    Misconception #2 » Prophecy Reformation Institute

    __________



    Misconception #3

    God has TWO separate and distinct peoples, TWO programs of redemption, and TWO different destinies¾one for the nation of Israel and one for the Church.

    Since when? From the beginning, there has only been a oneness— one Garden of Eden, one tree of life, one Noah’s ark, one ark of the covenant, one Tabernacle, one Temple, one priesthood, one hope, one faith, one Spirit, one baptism, one body depicted by one olive tree into which believing Gentiles were grafted and unbelieving Jews broken off, but can be re-grafted in. There is only one everlasting New Covenant promised to Israel, one “time of the end,” one salvation that is of the Jews, and one nation or people of God. This oneness has been consistently maintained throughout God’s dispensations. This oneness has never been divided or disconnected.


    Misconception #3 » Prophecy Reformation Institute

    __________



    Misconception #4

    The Jews are still ‘God’s Chosen People.’

    ALL of them never were! Here are three historic reasons why:

    Reason #1.) Not all of Abraham’s physical descendants were included under the unconditional but by faith Abrahamic covenant. Nor were they all children of the promise. God made his covenant with a person, Abraham, and not with one nation. But it was always by faith that Abraham and his descendants were justified before God, and not by national origin (Gen. 15:6; Rom. 4:3-22; Jas. 2:23).

    Misconception #4 » Prophecy Reformation Institute

    __________


    Misconception #5

    Israel has a biblical entitlement and permanent right to possess all their land in the Middle East, and this transcends all else.

    Not any more. That changed in the 1st century A.D. when the covenant upon which this land right was based became “obsolete” (Heb. 8:13). New Testament Christians need to accept this obsolescence. But we should also note that unbelieving Jews never had a claim upon Old Covenant benefits, including the land promise. Only those who exercised faith and obedient received its benefits.

    Furthermore, the Promised Land of Canaan was a temporary type and shadow as were all the physical components peculiar to the Mosaic Law system. They all pointed to the “coming good things” of the New Covenant age (Heb. 8:5; 9:9, 11, 23, 24; 10:1). These types and shadows were “not the realities themselves” (Heb. 10:1; also 8:5; 9:10; Col. 2:16, 17; John 5:39). When the New Covenant fully superseded the old in A.D. 70, the Jews were physically removed from that geographic patch of land and their covenant-determined “right” to it ceased and became moot.

    Misconception #5 » Prophecy Reformation Institute


    It is my prayer that everyone will read these articles and reap blessings and edification from them. Dispensationalists and Christian Zionists are a misguided group and it is not helping they have been pounded over the skull with these erroneous teachings by popular bestselling mainstream evangelicals and televangelists, some for years or decades.
     
  11. yogosans14

    yogosans14 Newbie

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    All the "misconceptions" still don't prove replacement theology :doh:
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    So then...

    the actual Bible -

    Romans 2:
    24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
    25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
    26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
    27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
    28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


    Romans 9


    6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
    7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
    8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
     
  13. Targaryen

    Targaryen Scripture,Tradition and Reason

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    Sorry I don't listen or read hyper-dispensationalists that claim to be Christian yet deny Jesus as Messiah.
     
  14. yogosans14

    yogosans14 Newbie

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    If he denies jesus is the messiah why does he always tell people to believe in Jesus the Messiah?
     
  15. Targaryen

    Targaryen Scripture,Tradition and Reason

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  16. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    There are some of us in NC Christendom that would.

    I would think Revelation 16 is talking about those blasphemous Jews of the flesh/circucision [and not the RCC as the SDAs believe]...IMHO

    http://www.christianforums.com/t7715971/
    if you observe Circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.

    John 10:33
    Answered Him, the Judeans saying, "About a good work not we are stoning Thee, but about blasphemy, and that Thou, being a man, are making thyself a god".
    [Romans 2:23/Reve 16:11,21]

    Romans 2:23
    Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring
    24 'For the name of the God because of ye, is being blasphemed in the nations' according as it has been written.'
    [Psalm 74:10]

    Reve 16:11
    And they blaspheme the God of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them, and not they reform out of the works of them

    Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary
    JESUS VS THE BLASPHEMOUS OC JUDEAN RULERS

    ...........While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage.
    Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.
    This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!........



    .
     
  17. random person

    random person 1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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    You Christian Zionists and dispensationalists are the replacement theologists!

    Know why, you want to uphold the false teaching that the Jews are still God's chosen people.

    Under the Mosaic Covenant = the answer is yes, it was thoroughly ethnocentric.

    But take for example, under the Mosaic Covenant, only Levites could be high priests and priests.

    Then if the Jews are so chosen, why under the New Covenant, can anyone be a priest of God regardless of their ethnicity.

    You are the replacement theologicians because you want to replace the New Covenant with the Mosaic Covenant.

    You desire to return to the days in which Levites are the ONLY priests of God, only Levites can intercede between God and man, only Levites can enter the presence of God, only circumcised Jews and proselytes can enter a THEE holy place of worship, only sacrifices of beasts year by year will atone for your sins. Do you see what you are doing, when the Jews WERE (please note the past tense word usage) God's chosen there were a lot more rules and ceremonies to follow than under the New Covenant.

    If I am replacement theologists, well you better remove all the Christian priests off of this earth because that is a role only fit for Levites.

    God is no respecter of persons, in that Jews and Gentiles have equal footing before God.

    If I am promoting replacement theology, than why are there Gentile priests, ministers, pastors of God?????

    You know not what you are saying, calling me a replacement theologists!
     
  18. random person

    random person 1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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    For more on the State of Israel, I recommend these three books:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    What you will learn about the State of Israel in these books will chill you to the bones. Professor Stephen J Green researched recently declassified documents from the U.S. State Department on the State of Israel since its birth. Chilling stories.

    These are some of my personal Bibles on the State of Israel. This is not God's chosen nation anymore.
     
  19. random person

    random person 1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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    The author relies on both external and internal evidence to prove the Book of Revelation was written before 70 A.D.

    [​IMG]

    This is an excellent work!
     
  20. By Faith Alone

    By Faith Alone Junior Member

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    :thumbsup:
     
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