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Featured LDS BOOK OF MORMON FALSE HISTORY 2

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Kiwi Christian, Jun 16, 2017.

  1. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    These are not my ideas--that comes from a Jewish scholar and that is what Jewish scholar have always taught. This is not a matter of "Elohim over the years has been translated into judges, and even angels." There is no getting rid of the Father, Son, nor the Holy Spirit---they are one. And there was "BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO OTHER GOD FORMED"--The Father had no Father!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  2. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    I don't wish to insult your faith, so I'll simply say I don't consider the BoM to be a valid source of anything scriptural.
     
  3. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Depends on whom the passages are addressing--- At times it is Israel.
    Isa 41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.
    Isa 41:9 Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.

    But then it is obvious that he is referring to Jesus:

    Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
    Isa 42:2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
    Isa 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
    Isa 42:4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

    The Father had no Father-----these are questions without answers for there is no one that came before God. He acknowledges no other before Him--

    Isa 40:12 Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?
    Isa 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?
    Isa 40:14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
    Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
    Isa 40:23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity.
    Isa 40:24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.
    Isa 40:25 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.
    Isa 40:26 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.
    Isa 40:27 Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the LORD, and my judgment is passed over from my God?
    Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
    Isa 40:29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
     
  4. fatboys

    fatboys Senior Veteran

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    So who is God speaking to?
     
  5. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah
     
  6. fatboys

    fatboys Senior Veteran

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    Who is Isaiah that God should speak to him?
     
  7. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    He was a prophet---who was Moses that He should speak to Him??---
    Who is anybody that He should speak to us?
     
  8. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Too bad, there is a lot of interesting information contained in the BOM about a people who are Israelites of the House of Joseph, which the bible prophecies will go accross the waters, which they did. They left Jerusalem in 600bc and never returned. They ended up in the Americas and the BOM is a small snapshot of the history of these people and their dealing with God and His Son Jesus Christ.

    God called prophets for this House of Israel, just as He called prophets for the House of Judah, and Benjamin, and all the Houses of Israel. So the Jews in Jerusalem created the OT and NT, our bible, and the prophets in the Americas created the BOM for their people. Same God and Jesus, dealing with people of the same House of Israel, just 15,000 miles apart, without the ability to communicate with each other.

    So without the ability to communicate, it is interesting that the Bible and the BOM would come up with the same central figure of Jesus Christ. Along with the same gospel of Jesus Christ.

    So if it is a phony book about Jesus Christ, you can ignore it, but if it is a true book about Jesus Christ you need to pay attention to what it says, along with what the Bible has to say. Both are a sure witness that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Can you ever throw away a truthful witness that Jesus is the Christ? Read 1 John 4:2 from the Bible:
    Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.

    Now read Mosiah 7:27 from the BOM:
    27 And because he said unto them that Christ was the God, the Father of all things, and said that he should take upon him the image of man, and it should be the image after which man was created in the beginning; or in other words, he said that man was created after the image of God, and that God should come down among the children of men, and take upon him flesh and blood, and go forth upon the face of the earth.

    The Holy Spirit that helped JS translate the BOM testified often in the BOM that Jesus came down in the flesh and was the savior of mankind. So as the Bible says, the BOM is of God. Do you want to take the risk and challenge the Bible?
     
  9. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    I like good fiction as much as the next person, but I'm not going to base my faith on it.
     
  10. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    As far as sharing in their glory, yes. Their divinity - no!
    Now you are making things up and trying to move the goalposts. This is about your text in John 17. The chapter talks about God's glory. Why should we not focus on that??
     
  11. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    If the Father had no Father, then the Father had no Son either.

    If the Jews are right and there is only 1 God, then this God/Father had no Son that stands on His right hand, which the OT and NT testify is true. Again, if you are going with 1 God, and you keep God the Father, you must give up the Son and the HS.
     
  12. fatboys

    fatboys Senior Veteran

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    Why would God speak to prophets? Doesn't God know how to write?
     
  13. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Did you read that I said the believers did not have to share Their divinity in order to be one, as They are one?

    Are you saying that believers cannot be one as God and Jesus are one?
     
  14. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    OK, lets focus on that. Why did Jesus give believers the glory that the Father gave him? (hint: read verse 22 all the way to the end)
     
  15. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Then base your faith on the bible, but all of it, not just the part that fits your personal theology. Since the BOM testifies to the world that Jesus came in the flesh and is the Savior of mankind, the Bible says that is of God.

    If the bible says that, that's good enough for me, how bout you?

    Both the Bible and the BOM testifies that Jesus came in the flesh and is the Savior of mankind. Both must have been written by prophets of God to say those words.

    You can believe it or not. But just know, we both know the Bible believes it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  16. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Interesting logic there, Peter. Let's test it.

    Acts 2:38

    Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    The same verse in Arabic:

    فَقَالَ لَهُمْ بُطْرُسُ: «تُوبُوا وَلْيَعْتَمِدْ كُلُّ وَاحِدٍ مِنْكُمْ عَلَى اسْمِ يَسُوعَ الْمَسِيحِ لِغُفْرَانِ الْخَطَايَا فَتَقْبَلُوا عَطِيَّةَ الرُّوحِ الْقُدُسِ.


    Qur'an 3:45 (Sura al Imran)

    إِذْ قَالَتِ الْمَلآئِكَةُ يَا مَرْيَمُ إِنَّ اللّهَ يُبَشِّرُكِ بِكَلِمَةٍ مِّنْهُ اسْمُهُ الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ وَجِيهًا فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآ ِرَةِ وَمِنَ الْمُقَرَّبِينَ

    (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah). (Muhammad M. Pickthall translation)

    You see how the bolded word is the same in both? That's the Arabic word for "messiah" (maseeh). So both the Holy Bible and the Qur'an testify to the fact that Jesus is the messiah.

    Would you say then, as you've said about the relation of the Book of Mormon to the Bible, that because both the Holy Bible and the Qur'an testify to the same fact concerning Jesus, then they must have both been written by true prophets of God?

    If not, then why not?
     
  17. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Apparently Joseph Smith thought He spoke to him also, or don't you think He did???
     
  18. fatboys

    fatboys Senior Veteran

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    I know he did. I know Isaiah did. I know Thomas Monson has.
     
  19. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Then what is your point? Why did you ask that question?? Isaiah was a true prophet of God. He didn't have to make up stories.
     
  20. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    And this 10-year-old is who now?
     
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