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Featured LDS BOOK OF MORMON FALSE HISTORY 2

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Kiwi Christian, Jun 16, 2017.

  1. NYCGuy

    NYCGuy Newbie

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    God and man.
     
  2. NYCGuy

    NYCGuy Newbie

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    Please cite where Trinity theology states that they are "made" of the same substance. I am specifically looking for the word "made".

    Once you figure that out you'll realize why your line of questioning is fallacious.
     
  3. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    But you don't understand. Nicodemus struggled to understand some things, too.

    John 3:12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

    As NYCGuy pointed out, you keep focusing on "made" or created. Remember, before Jesus became human, he was still God. He did not have a body of flesh and bone at that time. So the lds logic of the Father being made of flesh and bone fails there. Jesus is God and a spirit before he became human. THAT is the essence, substance, etc. that they are.
     
  4. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Peter (and everyone), please read On the Incarnation by St. Athanasius the Apostolic: On the Incarnation of the Word - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

    It is one of the foundational works of Christian theology on matters such as what is being discussed in the present conversation, and it is important to have some familiarity with if you are going to talk to Christians or about the Christian faith on matters such as the incarnation and Who Christ Jesus is, and why it matters what we believe about Him.
     
  5. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Fully human---always will be. As He was when the disciples touched Him. He has a glorified human body, but He is also fully divine.
     
  6. fatboys

    fatboys Senior Veteran

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    Are we talking about God the father or his son Jesus Christ? If they are three in one and of one substance then we are right that God the Father has a glorified resurrected body.
     
  7. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Christ---they were one substance---now Jesus is still half human with a resurrected human body.
     
  8. fatboys

    fatboys Senior Veteran

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    Then the father must have one as well since they are the same
     
  9. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    Does the father's father have one too?
     
  10. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Only Jesus has and retains His humanity. God the Father and Jesus are one---as we are one with them---in spirit. We do not share the same body, just the same mind set.
     
  11. withwonderingawe

    withwonderingawe Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I decided to look up the word nature in 2 Peter 1:4 in Stronge's

    the sum of innate properties and powers by which one person differs from others, distinctive native peculiarities, natural characteristics ...

    So we are partakers of the divine natural characteristics.
     
  12. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    LOL--there are 13 definitions found. Here are a few

    From G5590; sensitive that is, animate (in distinction on the one hand from G4152, which is the higher or renovated nature; and on the other from G5446, which is the lower or bestial nature): - natural, sensual.
    From G5453; growth (by germination or expansion), that is, (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension a genus or sort; figuratively native disposition, constitution or usage: - ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).
    Probably from an obsolete φράω phraō (to rein in or curb; compare G5420); the midrif (as a partition of the body), that is, (figuratively and by implication of sympathy) the feelings (or sensitive nature; by extension [also in the plural] the mind or cognitive faculties): - understanding.]

    Probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such): - carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).

    From G3844 and the middle voice of G971; to force contrary to (nature), that is, compel (by entreaty): - constrain.
    Apparently from H4910 in some original sense of superiority in mental action; properly a pithy maxim, usually of a metaphorical nature; hence a simile (as an adage, poem, discourse): - byword, like, parable, proverb.
     
  13. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    OK, Jesus has a glorified human body. This is biblical, so there is no argument here.

    Now, tell me if you believe that God the Father and Jesus and the HS are 1 God?
     
  14. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Thee is only One God---and Jesus is His ONLY Son. How 3 in one is done, is not for my poor brain to figure out.
     
  15. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    BigDaddy4,

    Ok, sorry, 'made' is not a good word to use in this context.

    So here is a corrected post #120
    Jesus has a body of flesh and bone and spirit, and God the Father and Jesus are 2 distinct consubstantial Persons, yet are one substance, essence, or nature (homoousios).

    Explain how Jesus is flesh and bone and spirit, but the Father is only spirit, but according to the Trinity theology, they are one substance. You need to explain that to me. Thanks.

    Definition of the Trinity, per wikipedia:
    The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from trinus, "threefold")[2] holds that God is three consubstantial persons[3] or hypostases[4]—the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God in three Divine Persons". The three persons are distinct, yet are one "substance, essence or nature" (homoousios).[5] In this context, a "nature" is what one is, whereas a "person" is who one is.[6][7][8]
     
  16. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    'made' is a bad word in this context. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

    So I will change the words 'they are made of the same substance' to
    'they are one substance'.

    Is that more acceptable?
     
  17. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    There is 1 God and Jesus is His ONLY BEGOTTEN Son. Well spoken.

    How 3 in 1 is done is mind boggling, I agree.
     
  18. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    The short answer is 'yes', but we have nothing to do with Him. We only have to do with our Father and His only begotten Son Jesus Christ. If you get too caught up in the Father's Father, you can get out of focus with our Father and what He is commanding us to do. So we know He exists, but that is the end of it. Our Father, who is also the Father of Jesus, and Jesus himself, is all we focus on.
     
  19. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    So The heavenly Father has a Father???----Strange He never mentions Him. Where is the biblical evidence for this concept?

    Isa_44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
    He is from everlasting to everlasting
    Psa_41:13 Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.
    Psa_90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
    Psa_93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.
    Psa_100:5 For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.
    Psa_103:17 But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
    Hab_1:12 Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.
     
  20. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    That is why Moses used the name Elohim for the first name of God in Genesis, read Genesis 1:1. El is the singular for God. Elohim is plural for Gods or Council of the Gods. A more proper rendering of Genesis 1:1 would be, And in the beginning, the Council of the Gods created the heavens and the earth.

    Paul knew the reason for the name Elohim when he wrote:
    1 Corinthians 8:5-6
    5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
    6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    That is what I said. God the Father has a Father, we know He exists, but we have nothing to do with Him, nor do we seek after Him. For to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
     
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