Book Discussion - Attitudes of a Transformed Heart by Martha Peace

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"The author writes about Nebuchadnezzar’s reaction to being confronted with the power and supremeness of God – he builds an altar to himself. Think about that for a moment. Doesn’t man do likewise? As they are confronted more and more with the realness of their Creator, with the lordship of their Saviour, with the kingship of the One True God, with the Almighty Power of Jehovah; they grasp more and more for what they can control, for control of their life, to set themselves up as the only one they must answer to, they are their god – it is self alone and their own desires they worship."

I think some people, instead of looking at God and saying "wow! he loves me and he's merciful I should follow him!" say "wow! he's perfect and all-powerful! I want to be like that!" then proceed to try to copy Him.
 
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You may not agree with this one, but I firmly believe probably 80% of society (at least in America) Suffers a mental disorder, possibly multiple. It's just that some have it very mildly. Almost everyone I know has something going on. Depression. Anxiety. OCD. ADD. Bipolar tendencies. Some wallow in it until I can't stand talking to them anymore. Others you didn't know they had any REAL problems because their walk with Christ is so strong. Like they say "We all have a burden, it's how you carry it."
If I had a guess, the rampant brain issues may have mostly to do with environmental factors, diet and upbringing (like how lots of sugar in the regular diet makes people act ADD, or some people clearly have seasonal affective disorder, or like me where my mother has anxiety and it rubbed off when I was little)
But I also think that the wide-spread presence of "internal imbalance things that mess with your head" is probably an after-effect of the fall of man and how evil forces are always trying to ruin us so we won't follow God. What better way than to capitalize on how the human brain usually goes haywire under less-than-desirable circumstances? (a high stress environment, poor diet, negativity all around)

I know that's sort of a tangent.... but this book IS acknowledging the not-God-centered attitudes right? Sometimes they spawn from an imbalance.
What matters is how you carry it.


No not a tangent at all in my view. I do believe most of the problems people have are due to the fall of mankind and sin.

I could share some thoughts that it is just not the time for, but it is not that I disagree that most of society has what the APA has "labeled" some form of mental disorder, however I believe true mental illness if very rare and our society has come to deem almost all ungodly behavior and beliefs as some manner of mental disorder that people just cannot seem to help. When you look deep into the roots of many of these so-called mental disorders what you find is imbalance, sin, and some form of ungodly belief system; you touched on that when you spoke of diet, sugar, etc. - as I said my thoughts are too vast on this subject to adequately go into it now. Please know I have studied psychology/psychiatry.


I will share this... before all of the widespread mental disorder fascination, back in the early 1990's God shared something with me. God showed me that psychology would creep into the church, into the Body of Christ, and it would become widespread to the point that His people turned from His Ways to the ways of psychology, with most the church becoming medicated people, and so they have.
 
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Reborn1977

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Chapter 3 is now open for discussion, please feel free to share your thoughts that you have thus far, and do not forget to comment on other people’s insights.



Once we have exhausted our discussion of this chapter, I will open up discussion on the next chapter. I would like us to read the chapters during approximately the same time frame, staying focused on the discussion surrounding that chapter, as I have found this is best for watching God move among the discussion.



I am looking forward to what God is going to do through this discussion.
 
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Reborn1977

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Chapter 3: Psychologized Man “Most High” (first half of chapter)


The author points out that just as many churches have made “man god” as psychologists have made man god. She also warned against basing our thoughts about mankind on psychological theory as is so popular in Christian culture today.


To me it does seem church has become more about us, man, than it is a about God.



I do believe that understanding who you are in Christ goes a long way toward healing emotional damage and mental distress in a person, which is one of the reasons I always have my protégés read Neil Anderson’s book “Victory Over Darkness” – that said however, our relationship with Christ is not just about getting our needs met or our problems taken care of, as seems to be the primary focus today.



When it comes to psychiatry and psychology, I am amazed at how short people’s memories are. Electroshock therapy is now back under the name of electroconvulsive therapy and other non-descript names and degrees of it are being done in normal therapy sessions. A treatment that is just as brutal to the brain as it ever was, they have just found a way to minimize the immediate evidence of that reality – today people barely feel the treatment, but the damage is the same or worse. These shocks that are meant to treat PTSD, depression, and other disorders are actually severely damaging the brain bit by bit with each treatment. I guess if you do not mind being a brainless zombie without the ability to think or reason you should have no problem with such “treatment.”



God does reveal things to people through dreams but not in the Freudian way that the author notes the famous (infamous) psychiatrist thought dreams were to be viewed.


A bit about the father of psychiatry, who was a self-confessed godless man, whose beliefs are considered bizarre by a large portion of thinking people.

“Unfortunately, Sigmund Freud looked into his own sinful heart for answers rather than turning to Scripture. It is well documented that during the years Freud was formulating his famous theories he used cocaine, maintained an avid interest in the occult and numerology, and believed himself destined for fame. Some think that Freud was under the illusion that he was Moses.10”

10 Torrey, E. Fuller. Freudian Fraud (New York, New York: Harper Collins Publishers, 1992), pages 9-13.

Peace, Martha. Attitudes of a Transformed Heart. Focus Publishing. Kindle Edition.


Maslow the man considered the “Father of Modern Psychology” who studied under Freud was an avowed atheist.


Another noted psychologist who has shaped the profession is Erik Erickson who was a firm believer in evolution. He believed maturity came through crisis, through crisis we evolve, adapting as needed, like the fish washed ashore learned to grow legs and walk in the theory of evolution.


I am astonied….How can so many Christians believe in the "doctrines" of the ungodly and atheistic people of our society?


At one point in the book Marin Luther, The Reformer, is mentioned. The man of God who was used to bring about the break from the Catholic Church, which allowed many of us to be non-denominational, Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc. Without what God did through Luther we would all be Catholic right now whether we wanted to be or not. Luther struggled with what God wanted him to do, Luther struggled with Satan, and if you have ever studied Luther’s life, his spiritual struggle, his character and his traits, and you have a working knowledge of psychiatry today, you will see that by today’s ideas and standards Martin Luther would have been considered schizophrenic, which this man of God absolutely was not.


I personally, have no problem with the idea that as human being we would like to have our needs met. However, only Christ can truly meet a person’s needs; time and maturity is the only thing that will convince people of that Truth, however. As the author points out it is not biblical that we must first have our needs met before we can mature, overcome emotional problems, or meet the need of another person or I would add, be the person God intended us to be. Whether someone loves you, esteems you, or meets your needs you can still become the mentally and emotionally mature, spiritually developed, person God intends for you to be.


The author states, “The Lord Jesus’ death was a slow and torturous one. However, even during His horrible crucifixion, Jesus made provisions for his mother’s care (John 19:26-27), He forgave those who crucified Him (Luke 23:34), and He forgave and encouraged one of the criminals being crucified beside Him (Luke 23:42-43). Rather than “relieving himself of duty,” so to speak, while He died, Jesus continued to give to the others around Him. It is safe to assume that His physical needs certainly were not being met.”

Peace, Martha. Attitudes of a Transformed Heart. Focus Publishing. Kindle Edition.


Please note, Jesus did not concern himself with His needs...self, self, self was not his agenda. The god of self makes man think and focus primarily on himself or herself – self, self, self, the most destructive force of focus there can be.


As the author notes from one of Welch’s books, we as Christians need to love people more and need them less.


I also believe that spiritual growth often comes through trials, a crisis of sorts, just as the Book of James teaches us. However, again as I have said in the past, the aspects of psychology that have merit only work because they are based in a spiritual principle God has ordained to work, the principle or practice’s bases are in biblical Truth. However, that is not the same as Erickson’s ideas of ‘evolution through crisis.’


Erickson believed in “ego integrity” his idea of a person maturing from adolescence to adulthood. - - - Now here I want to tread lightly because I want to tell the truth, but I also do not want to wound or offend. However, there is a great immaturity among the millennial generation, it is extremely pervasive. Part of the maturing process, or lack thereof, for the people in this age group is attached to something Erickson talks about in his book when he addresses reaching this ego integrity as he calls it.

“It thus means a new and different love of one’s parents, free of the wish that they should have been different, and an acceptance of the fact that one’s life is one’s own responsibility.”


This is one statement I can agree with him on. Part of what keep people from maturing as a person is their view of their parents. Acceptance and taking personal responsibility are needed in maturity as a place of honoring our parent's as adults and becoming personally accountable.


The author notes the importance and preciousness of our union with Christ, and I would add that it is the most beautiful union and relationship we will ever have. However, the primary intent of the relationship was never meant to be, nor should it be, about serving our needs, solving our problems, or giving us stature – God may well bring all of that about – but the relationship is primarily about us loving and honoring Him not Him honoring us.

You can test this Truth yourself. When you listen to Christian music or when you are in church during worship examine your spirit closely, how your spirit reacts to the music. The songs that are about us, God’s love for us, His healing of us, His power He gives us, make our spirits feel good, but the songs that are ONLY about Him, His Greatness, His Majesty, His Holiness, songs that just worship who He is lifts our spirits to an indescribable level of fulfillment and contentment. Just test this next time you hear songs that focus on these two different forms of worship – what God does for man or who God is.


The author has divided the chapter in half at this point and I am going to likewise with my discussion of this chapter. I will leave this posting on the first half of the chapter for a few days before moving on to the second half of the chapter, which delves more into how Christian’s have Christianized psychology.
 
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Reborn1977

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Wow...

I feel blessed to have stumbled across this discussion.

I am so glad to hear that. Please contribute your thoughts. I am sure we would all be blessed by them.
 
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Reborn1977

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Ive just read the thread - not the book yet... should I hold off?
No brother I say comment on what you've read on the thread. Much of the book has been capsuled via the book discussion on the thread. I would love to hear your input. I've seen your post on other threads and I think you have something worthwhile to contribute. In my view you're among some of the more mature Christian's on this site.
 
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Well I relate to 98% of what I read here.

The insights can only come from genuine encounters with Him and gifts of insight.

That is what I grapple with. Why is the fear of Him not more common - it is a treasure. I could say that folks don't prioritise Him - but I didn't either, He broke into my life several times quite dramatically. I see that this generation needs this, but I am completely at a loss to see how this can be realised.

The only thing that I can see that may bring this about is the prayers of believing parents. My mother who died at 98 was an intercessor. My grandmother who died at 99 was simply a saint and prayed for me constantly.

I have had a rough ride. God consciousness at maybe 4. Jesus appears to me a 8 after I threw a dart into my sisters leg. Born again dramatically at 13. Struggling thread of faith and met the wrong lady at 17 and married for 7 years, she ends up with my best friend, into drugs, eastern thought, fringes of occult, study psychology, phenomenology of religion, anthropology at University, intense demonic stuff, committed to mental institution by my wife, ECT but heaps of folks prayed for me, then the still small voice "return to your Christian roots" so I take off up country to find Him again. Alone by the sea He picks me up gives me a shake and says stay on the rails. 7 years of prayer and healing to find myself again. Ten years of singleness before He dramatically leads my to my new wife Sandi. 33 years and 5 children later - my son is in bible school. Phew...

Now I have a passion for encouraging folk to find the beautiful life He has for them and if He wills, minister to the mentally captive.

He has partnered with me in dramatic healings, I am indescribably thankful.

Only prayer and His great grace can account for my survival.
 
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DOTK3033

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Chapter 3: Psychologized Man “Most High” (first half of chapter)


The author points out that just as many churches have made “man god” as psychologists have made man god. She also warned against basing our thoughts about mankind on psychological theory as is so popular in Christian culture today.


To me it does seem church has become more about us, man, than it is a about God.



I do believe that understanding who you are in Christ goes a long way toward healing emotional damage and mental distress in a person, which is one of the reasons I always have my protégés read Neil Anderson’s book “Victory Over Darkness” – that said however, our relationship with Christ is not just about getting our needs met or our problems taken care of, as seems to be the primary focus today.



When it comes to psychiatry and psychology, I am amazed at how short people’s memories are. Electroshock therapy is now back under the name of electroconvulsive therapy and other non-descript names and degrees of it are being done in normal therapy sessions. A treatment that is just as brutal to the brain as it ever was, they have just found a way to minimize the immediate evidence of that reality – today people barely feel the treatment, but the damage is the same or worse. These shocks that are meant to treat PTSD, depression, and other disorders are actually severely damaging the brain bit by bit with each treatment. I guess if you do not mind being a brainless zombie without the ability to think or reason you should have no problem with such “treatment.”



God does reveal things to people through dreams but not in the Freudian way that the author notes the famous (infamous) psychiatrist thought dreams were to be viewed.


A bit about the father of psychiatry, who was a self-confessed godless man, whose beliefs are considered bizarre by a large portion of thinking people.

“Unfortunately, Sigmund Freud looked into his own sinful heart for answers rather than turning to Scripture. It is well documented that during the years Freud was formulating his famous theories he used cocaine, maintained an avid interest in the occult and numerology, and believed himself destined for fame. Some think that Freud was under the illusion that he was Moses.10”

10 Torrey, E. Fuller. Freudian Fraud (New York, New York: Harper Collins Publishers, 1992), pages 9-13.

Peace, Martha. Attitudes of a Transformed Heart. Focus Publishing. Kindle Edition.


Maslow the man considered the “Father of Modern Psychology” who studied under Freud was an avowed atheist.


Another noted psychologist who has shaped the profession is Erik Erickson who was a firm believer in evolution. He believed maturity came through crisis, through crisis we evolve, adapting as needed, like the fish washed ashore learned to grow legs and walk in the theory of evolution.


I am astonied….How can so many Christians believe in the "doctrines" of the ungodly and atheistic people of our society?


At one point in the book Marin Luther, The Reformer, is mentioned. The man of God who was used to bring about the break from the Catholic Church, which allowed many of us to be non-denominational, Baptist, Methodist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc. Without what God did through Luther we would all be Catholic right now whether we wanted to be or not. Luther struggled with what God wanted him to do, Luther struggled with Satan, and if you have ever studied Luther’s life, his spiritual struggle, his character and his traits, and you have a working knowledge of psychiatry today, you will see that by today’s ideas and standards Martin Luther would have been considered schizophrenic, which this man of God absolutely was not.


I personally, have no problem with the idea that as human being we would like to have our needs met. However, only Christ can truly meet a person’s needs; time and maturity is the only thing that will convince people of that Truth, however. As the author points out it is not biblical that we must first have our needs met before we can mature, overcome emotional problems, or meet the need of another person or I would add, be the person God intended us to be. Whether someone loves you, esteems you, or meets your needs you can still become the mentally and emotionally mature, spiritually developed, person God intends for you to be.


The author states, “The Lord Jesus’ death was a slow and torturous one. However, even during His horrible crucifixion, Jesus made provisions for his mother’s care (John 19:26-27), He forgave those who crucified Him (Luke 23:34), and He forgave and encouraged one of the criminals being crucified beside Him (Luke 23:42-43). Rather than “relieving himself of duty,” so to speak, while He died, Jesus continued to give to the others around Him. It is safe to assume that His physical needs certainly were not being met.”

Peace, Martha. Attitudes of a Transformed Heart. Focus Publishing. Kindle Edition.


Please note, Jesus did not concern himself with His needs...self, self, self was not his agenda. The god of self makes man think and focus primarily on himself or herself – self, self, self, the most destructive force of focus there can be.


As the author notes from one of Welch’s books, we as Christians need to love people more and need them less.


I also believe that spiritual growth often comes through trials, a crisis of sorts, just as the Book of James teaches us. However, again as I have said in the past, the aspects of psychology that have merit only work because they are based in a spiritual principle God has ordained to work, the principle or practice’s bases are in biblical Truth. However, that is not the same as Erickson’s ideas of ‘evolution through crisis.’


Erickson believed in “ego integrity” his idea of a person maturing from adolescence to adulthood. - - - Now here I want to tread lightly because I want to tell the truth, but I also do not want to wound or offend. However, there is a great immaturity among the millennial generation, it is extremely pervasive. Part of the maturing process, or lack thereof, for the people in this age group is attached to something Erickson talks about in his book when he addresses reaching this ego integrity as he calls it.

“It thus means a new and different love of one’s parents, free of the wish that they should have been different, and an acceptance of the fact that one’s life is one’s own responsibility.”


This is one statement I can agree with him on. Part of what keep people from maturing as a person is their view of their parents. Acceptance and taking personal responsibility are needed in maturity as a place of honoring our parent's as adults and becoming personally accountable.


The author notes the importance and preciousness of our union with Christ, and I would add that it is the most beautiful union and relationship we will ever have. However, the primary intent of the relationship was never meant to be, nor should it be, about serving our needs, solving our problems, or giving us stature – God may well bring all of that about – but the relationship is primarily about us loving and honoring Him not Him honoring us.

You can test this Truth yourself. When you listen to Christian music or when you are in church during worship examine your spirit closely, how your spirit reacts to the music. The songs that are about us, God’s love for us, His healing of us, His power He gives us, make our spirits feel good, but the songs that are ONLY about Him, His Greatness, His Majesty, His Holiness, songs that just worship who He is lifts our spirits to an indescribable level of fulfillment and contentment. Just test this next time you hear songs that focus on these two different forms of worship – what God does for man or who God is.


The author has divided the chapter in half at this point and I am going to likewise with my discussion of this chapter. I will leave this posting on the first half of the chapter for a few days before moving on to the second half of the chapter, which delves more into how Christian’s have Christianized psychology.
Thank you for blessing us. I feel very fortunate to have been invited to learn from you. I am a little taken back at the information because of the undeniable truth. I can say from experience that I have seen how Satan disguises himself with mental illness. I lived a very traumatic life and struggled with depression, anxiety, guilt and shame for so long I didn't think a good or happy life was possible for me. My life was all darkness until our gracious Father called me out into His glorious light. He removed the mountain of issues I struggled with instantly and praise God freed me from the mental chains that bound me. A lot of my childhood is locked away in my memories still. After I began getting closer to God, the enemy began unlocking those memories and using them to terrorize me but of course God just used it for His glory and one by one restored me and strengthened me with what was meant to hurt me. My first few months of salvation were full of attacks. I felt unworthy to be with God's good people at a church I loved so much. I broke down one morning as I got ready for church wondering if I would ever belong. And then our Sovereign One unlocked a memory of His own. The memory was so bright, vivid, beautiful like no memory I had ever seen.
When I was 4 years old my grandmother took me away from my mother because of the neglect. For 3 months my grandpa took me to his church every Sunday until my mother finally got me back and fled far away. During those 3 months I was filled with the holy spirit in such a way that would eventually chase me down and take over me once again. I was totally and completely in love with the Lord. Every Sunday I would dance in worship at the foot of the altar on a big white dove cut out of the red carpeted sanctuary. This memory locked away for most of my lifetime was now before my crying eyes. Brown hair flying, hands stretched wide, feet and heart planted directly into the holy spirit, dancing in complete surrender, a feeling in my spirit so sweet I wanted for eternity. My tears of sorrow turned to tear of joy as He spoke to my heart "Before the abuse, the drugs, and the sin you were mine. You will always belong, to me." That's the God I love. One that took my ill working mind, developed that way through a lifetime of pain and sin, and used it to love on me in the most heart felt and special way. I will never forget that I belong to Him again and I will never stop praising Him because of that truth. It's true that He uses all things for His good and glory, especially what the world deems broken.
 
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Reborn1977

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Why is the fear of Him not more common - it is a treasure.

Amen the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. There is safety in honoring God and doing His Will, we all forget that sometimes, but it does seem there is a large "Christian" group out there who just do not get that...safety, wisdom, freedom, and blessing found in honoring and obeying Him.

Born again dramatically at 13.

I was blessed by reading your testimony. "Born again dramatically" I can relate, age 11, He spoke to me so clearly and my life has been.......no words.....I am sure you understand that. I only pray that today I honor Him better than I did yesterday, and that tomorrow I honor Him even better than I do today.

Now I have a passion for encouraging folk to find the beautiful life He has for them and if He wills, minister to the mentally captive.
"minister to the mentally captive" - I would be blessed to learn more about what that calling looks like to you.



I am not feeling very well today so please keep me in your prayers, everyone.
 
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Reborn1977

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I am a little taken back at the information because of the undeniable truth. I can say from experience that I have seen how Satan disguises himself with mental illness.

You have blessed me today with your words. With so many people blinded by the great deceptions found in psychology and psychiatry, it is often an uphill battle to present the Truth of the contradictions between God's Ways and the ways of "educated worldly man" even to Christians. However, I have learned that those who do not wish to actually seek Truth over their own belief system blind themselves to the Truth. Whereas, people like yourself who truly have an open heart and spirit to God, who seek only to know the Truth, recognize the Truth when they see, hear, or read it. Truth is powerful, Truth will set you free, as your testimony is a witness to.

He removed the mountain of issues I struggled with instantly and praise God freed me from the mental chains that bound me.

Your testimony brought tears to my eyes and touched my spirit. It was so obviously real, deep, and God. My words are inadequate to describe the beauty of what you wrote. Part of me wants to ask if could share it on my blog, GodsTruthInLove.org but another part of me thinks that you might view that request as invasive. Nevertheless, as a writer, I would encourage you to put what you wrote to paper along with some Truths from Scripture as a pamphlet you could share with those who struggle as you did and need to find the Truths you have found. You have a beautiful testimony, one of God's treasures, let Him guide you in finding a greater way of using it for His glory.


I am a little bit under the weather today so please keep me in your prayers.
 
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The first part of Chapter 3 spoke to me because:
The mention of how even church has been made man-centered.
"I go to this church because it helps me feel like I belong".

Up until this year, that WAS my primary reason for attending a church, or NOT attending it. My primary focus was gauging kind of what percentage the church was a "match" for me based on how I felt about the "performance" of a series of categories:
-The way I was treated by the congregation, especially peers
-The way the message made me feel
-How many factors made me uncomfortable
-How well it fit into my schedule
No church was ever 100%, but one in particular, a contemporary PCA, that I had been off-again-on-again with since 2005 had been .... about a 90%. Most of the time. There were seasons where it was only about a 60%, hence the off-again-on-again.
The others I went to? A large baptist church was a 75% because it had many different types of services each week on different days ... but the people weren't as friendly.
A small non-denominational church was about a 65% because though it was vivacious and lively with many peers to talk to, the services were long and the accommodations were uncomfortable (borrowed space, not alot of room). Also the peers were more fond of my husband than me.
Another small non-denom church wound up only being a 60% because it was not only a very long sermon that ate up a chunk of the day, the people weren't particularly welcoming.

Do I sound terrible? Probably. I can tell you I am one of MANY who think this way.
In fact, several of the small "startup" churches in town that are meeting in borrowed space are there because one of those bigger ones "made a bunch of people feel unwelcome" so their response? they left to go start their own thing.

Finally, more at the beginning of this year, I was facing the decision: My husband didn't really want to go to church for personal reasons. Should I keep going (and trying to bring him when I could)? If I weighed my choice on those factors listed above, I would have decided not to stay. Why? Because in the past couple of years, only a handful of members "were making ME feel welcome". The rest seemed wrapped up in their own little social network. We (my husband and I) were pretty much invisible. We were just on a "hello and goodbye" basis with them. The messages were fine. Not igniting fire in my soul but then again... I didn't pay attention well so maybe they would if I tried.

When I decided to purposefully go forward with the effort to personally follow Christ in a new way that I hadn't been before really, I realized that
I needed to be at church for two reasons:
1) To be inspired by God's word. The pastor gives a message with scripture to meditate on all week.
2) Because of what the bible commands

“24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.” – Hebrews 10: 24-25


So now I'm open if GOD calls me to a new place.... but no longer will I wander about testing the waters with "how they make me feel" as the reason.

More from Chapter 3 coming up later.
 
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The first part of Chapter 3 spoke to me because:
The mention of how even church has been made man-centered.
"I go to this church because it helps me feel like I belong".

Up until this year, that WAS my primary reason for attending a church, or NOT attending it. My primary focus was gauging kind of what percentage the church was a "match" for me based on how I felt about the "performance" of a series of categories:
-The way I was treated by the congregation, especially peers
-The way the message made me feel
-How many factors made me uncomfortable
-How well it fit into my schedule
No church was ever 100%, but one in particular, a contemporary PCA, that I had been off-again-on-again with since 2005 had been .... about a 90%. Most of the time. There were seasons where it was only about a 60%, hence the off-again-on-again.
The others I went to? A large baptist church was a 75% because it had many different types of services each week on different days ... but the people weren't as friendly.
A small non-denominational church was about a 65% because though it was vivacious and lively with many peers to talk to, the services were long and the accommodations were uncomfortable (borrowed space, not alot of room). Also the peers were more fond of my husband than me.
Another small non-denom church wound up only being a 60% because it was not only a very long sermon that ate up a chunk of the day, the people weren't particularly welcoming.

Do I sound terrible? Probably. I can tell you I am one of MANY who think this way.
In fact, several of the small "startup" churches in town that are meeting in borrowed space are there because one of those bigger ones "made a bunch of people feel unwelcome" so their response? they left to go start their own thing.

Finally, more at the beginning of this year, I was facing the decision: My husband didn't really want to go to church for personal reasons. Should I keep going (and trying to bring him when I could)? If I weighed my choice on those factors listed above, I would have decided not to stay. Why? Because in the past couple of years, only a handful of members "were making ME feel welcome". The rest seemed wrapped up in their own little social network. We (my husband and I) were pretty much invisible. We were just on a "hello and goodbye" basis with them. The messages were fine. Not igniting fire in my soul but then again... I didn't pay attention well so maybe they would if I tried.

When I decided to purposefully go forward with the effort to personally follow Christ in a new way that I hadn't been before really, I realized that
I needed to be at church for two reasons:
1) To be inspired by God's word. The pastor gives a message with scripture to meditate on all week.
2) Because of what the bible commands

“24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.” – Hebrews 10: 24-25


So now I'm open if GOD calls me to a new place.... but no longer will I wander about testing the waters with "how they make me feel" as the reason.

More from Chapter 3 coming up later.


I am blessed by your transparency. Transparency is one of the great tools that God uses to allow our experiences to help other people in the growth of their faith. Transparency takes courage and confidence in the grace of God.
 
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Carl Emerson

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"minister to the mentally captive" - I would be blessed to learn more about what that calling looks like to you.
Well if you have been through it there is faith to assist others.

Example: the other week, a lady comes over who i struggling with OCD (quite severe)

Now my wife and I have found a Ministry structure that works well that involves confession, repentance, renounciation, blood covering, cleansing, healing. An we teach about holding the ground gained.

The lady left our place with a new countenance, and others that met her in successive days asked what had happened.

The problem we face is that I am guessing this deliverance/healing ministry will be banned as they are planning to do in Denmark. Many countries are considering this partly to respond to the demands of the 'gay' community.

The church has abdicated it's responsibility in meeting these needs to "professionals" with secular agenda's and mostly disastrous results.

I am guessing that in time those with a real ministry in this area will have to operate under the radar...
 
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Reborn1977

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Now my wife and I have found a Ministry structure that works well that involves confession, repentance, renounciation, blood covering, cleansing, healing. An we teach about holding the ground gained.

That is where my mind went when you wrote about your ministry in your original message.
I wrote these years ago but recently here on the forum the topics came up again so I reposted them on my forum blog. You might like to use them one day, feel free.

Generational Curses, Prayer To Renounce Evil, And Forgiveness

The problem we face is that I am guessing this deliverance/healing ministry will be banned as they are planning to do in Denmark. Many countries are considering this partly to respond to the demands of the 'gay' community.

The church has abdicated it's responsibility in meeting these needs to "professionals" with secular agenda's and mostly disastrous results.

I am guessing that in time those with a real ministry in this area will have to operate under the radar...

I personally believe that ministers and various aspects of their ministry are already under attack and that true persecution for doing the Lord's Work is on its way in a major way. This will weed out the hirelings from the truly called. To a small degree, we already operate under the radar in some aspects. I could share a few horror stories with you that I have knowledge of but I will spare us all that and just say...the courts are being used to silence Christian and remove their civil liberties.
 
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Reborn1977

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Chapter 3: Psychologized Man “Most High” (second half of chapter)


The author writes about how several Christian psychologists have tried to Christianize psychology even when aspects of psychology are contrary to Scripture. Scripture cannot be bent to fit psychology and as I have previously stated the aspects of psychology that have a cognitive positive effect or affect do so because they employ a biblical principle, and we know God’s Word never fails to produce fruitful results.


What the author writes here is very interesting.

“Christian Psychologists justify their position by believing that their field is scientific and that their theories are true because “all truth is God’s truth.” 27 They believe that their theories are included in what is called “general revelation.” In other words, they think that anything they regard as scientific “truth” comes under the umbrella of general revelation and is from God. Their belief about general revelation, however, is not accurate since general revelation has only one overall purpose – to reveal God to us (see Psalm 19:1 and Romans 1:18-21).28 Any study of creation that goes beyond revealing that God exists and is to be feared misuses God’s general revelation. So, the problem with how they justify their position is that psychological theories do not come under the umbrella of general revelation.”

Peace, Martha. Attitudes of a Transformed Heart . Focus Publishing. Kindle Edition.


The author goes on to reveal how psychologized man views himself or herself, views that are not biblical or even contrary to Scriptural Truth.

· The “needy” psychologized man has a misplaced understanding about what His relationship with God is mean to do, the relationship is really meant to glorify God not man.

· Psychologized man believes that unconscious desires control him or her.

· Psychologized man is self-focused; life is about his or her needs, other people need to make them feel better.

· Proud and self-serving.

· Uses God for how God can make him or her feel, and I would add, or what God can do for him or her.

· For psychologized man the focus is self, self, self. There focus is too inward when it should be outward, should they truly desire to feel better.


I will conclude with these two power thoughts from the author.

“The so-called “Christian” view of man is changing. It esteems man higher and higher and in the process God gets smaller and smaller.”


“Man’s emotional problems cannot be solved through an inward search, seeking to have his needs met, or realizing who he is (even in Christ). Almost all of man’s emotional problems can be solved by loving God and loving others.”

Peace, Martha. Attitudes of a Transformed Heart . Focus Publishing. Kindle Edition.
 
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Reborn1977

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I thought I was done commenting on your post, but one sentence keeps ringing in my spirit.

An we teach about holding the ground gained.

I do not believe people fully understand how imperative that is to growing in Christ. Christ gives us ground, we make a realization, we come to a greater understanding, or the like, but then instead of "holding the ground gained" we go backward, like the dog returning to his or her vomit, and thus the ground gained is diminished or either lost. And we all do it at some time to some degree, I know I have, so we need to fully understand what that does to our newfound faith and growth in a specific area.

God once showed me that we need to draw a line in the sand spiritually speaking when we have made a decision for His Will in a specific area of our life, turning our face like flint, away from what was to what God desires and not argue with the old tapes in our head that tell us the way of the past was the better way; for God's Way is ALWAYS the best way.
 
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Re-summarizing the end of Chapter 3:
:thoughtballoon:Psychologized man think's he's "needy" and that "I'm valued because God gave me worth" When really his focus should be on what GOD has done and he should mourn his sin.
:thoughtballoon:He doesn't understand that we are only meant to be controlled by the Holy Spirit and not some unconscious version of self
:thoughtballoon:He is inwardly focused.
:thoughtballoon:He is self-serving. He should be focused on the excellence of God.
:thoughtballoon:He should deny himself and serve others, but would rather use God as a means to make himself feel better.

Can YOU think of times you've done what Psychologized man does? I can.
 
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