BOMBSHELL: Two Men Tell Judiciary Committee They Did It, Not Kavanaugh

ThatRobGuy

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It's amazing how standards for what makes a valid claim differs in the eyes of Kavanaugh supporters.

Apparently anything that comes out in favor of Brett is worth accepting without a shred of evidence, but anything against him needs to be run through their 'gauntlet of scrutiny' involving loaded questions and every-moving goalposts.
 
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essentialsaltes

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But why should we believe them? That the question everyone who convicted Kavanaugh without any evidence will ask. Watch!

I'll ask a different question. Does anyone believe these anonymous men? Senator Graham doesn't.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., dismissed the two men who claim they could be the man described by Christine Blasey Ford as sexually assaulting her, instead of Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh.

Senate Judiciary Committee staffers have spoken to the unidentified men.

One’s crazy as a loon. I don’t believe the other one,” Graham, a member of that panel, told CBS on Thursday. “I’m not going to play this game.”
 
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Halbhh

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I'll ask a different question. Does anyone believe these anonymous men? Senator Graham doesn't.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., dismissed the two men who claim they could be the man described by Christine Blasey Ford as sexually assaulting her, instead of Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh.

Senate Judiciary Committee staffers have spoken to the unidentified men.

One’s crazy as a loon. I don’t believe the other one,” Graham, a member of that panel, told CBS on Thursday. “I’m not going to play this game.”

Nevertheless, still, it would be best to investigate the 2 men, and found out either way. Either way, finding out more about them is good, and beneficial. If they are paid fakers, that would be good to find out. If they are for real, that would be good to find out, and then go further to try to establish as many more extra details of all kinds possible, using a dozen or more agents, within a week or so, and then go from there. Perhaps they assaulted someone else and thought it was Ford. Perhaps all sorts of possibilities. The more that comes to light, no matter what it is, is helpful.

See -- no matter what they are like -- the more light the better, in all scenarios.
 
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It's amazing how standards for what makes a valid claim differs in the eyes of Kavanaugh supporters.
Sorry but both sides suffer from that disease.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Nevertheless, still, it would be best to investigate the 2 men, and found out either way.

Oh, agreed. From day 1, all I ever wanted was the FBI to do something similar to what it did in the case of Anita Hill.

(The fact that Graham, a Republican who has the most to gain from revelations that help Kavanaugh, is not taking this seriously, is why I'm not inclined to take it seriously either.)
 
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com7fy8

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"No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier." (2 Timothy 2:4)

So, it is good to prayerfully make sure this is not seducing my attention away from where God would guide my attention.

I would say Christine and Judge Kavanaugh are equally due to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, if I understand the United States Constitution correctly. So, in case anyone is not presuming each one innocent, equally as equal citizens, that one is not upholding the United States Constitution.

Plus, can we expect a real hearing while there are numerous prejudiced people on each side of the issue?? I mean, if ones of us have already drawn conclusions without evidence and F.B.I. and/or other adequate quality of investigation . . . I think this is not presuming each one innocent, and is not upholding the American Constitution.

And in case we attempt to sort this out, without a real investigation by impartial people who can get facts, we could get ourselves tangled plus going by what is not proof, when God's guidance of our attention is reliable, and He will guide us according to all He knows and all He is committed to doing.

And He might not be committed to settling an issue in which officials of both sides are not upholding their own Constitution. If we trust and obey God, we will get all which He is really committed to doing with us.

But this means I need to not self-righteously be pointing my finger at how someone else is wrong. Self-righteousness is wrong, too.
 
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I'll ask a different question. Does anyone believe these anonymous men? ....

Notice again the sexism. "men" And they're not anonymous, they've just not gone public yet. they've presented themselves to the Senate.
 
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Oh, agreed. From day 1, all I ever wanted was the FBI to do something similar to what it did in the case of Anita Hill.

(The fact that Graham, a Republican who has the most to gain from revelations that help Kavanaugh, is not taking this seriously, is why I'm not inclined to take it seriously either.)

FBI already has investigated Kavanaugh 6 times. It's not the FBI that confirms Judges, it's the Senate. You want the Senate and Senate only to investigate this, especially since no crime is involved.

And why are you dismissing these men? Is it really pure sexism?
 
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Halbhh

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"No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier." (2 Timothy 2:4)

So, it is good to prayerfully make sure this is not seducing my attention away from where God would guide my attention.

I would say Christine and Judge Kavanaugh are equally due to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, if I understand the United States Constitution correctly. So, in case anyone is not presuming each one innocent, equally as equal citizens, that one is not upholding the United States Constitution.

Plus, can we expect a real hearing while there are numerous prejudiced people on each side of the issue?? I mean, if ones of us have already drawn conclusions without evidence and F.B.I. and/or other adequate quality of investigation . . . I think this is not presuming each one innocent, and is not upholding the American Constitution.

And in case we attempt to sort this out, without a real investigation by impartial people who can get facts, we could get ourselves tangled plus going by what is not proof, when God's guidance of our attention is reliable, and He will guide us according to all He knows and all He is committed to doing.

And He might not be committed to settling an issue in which officials of both sides are not upholding their own Constitution. If we trust and obey God, we will get all which He is really committed to doing with us.

But this means I need to not self-righteously be pointing my finger at how someone else is wrong. Self-righteousness is wrong, too.

So useful and true!

Thank you for coming to this battlefield to help members of CF who are wounding themselves.
 
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com7fy8

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Oh, no no no. Kavanaugh is a man. Only women get this right.
But there are Republicans who can assume that any Democrat has to be lying, and therefore Judge Kavanaugh is the only one to be presumed innocent.

So, there can be prejudice and presumption both ways.
 
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Calminian

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"No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier." (2 Timothy 2:4)

So, it is good to prayerfully make sure this is not seducing my attention away from where God would guide my attention.

I would say Christine and Judge Kavanaugh are equally due to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, if I understand the United States Constitution correctly. So, in case anyone is not presuming each one innocent, equally as equal citizens, that one is not upholding the United States Constitution.

Plus, can we expect a real hearing while there are numerous prejudiced people on each side of the issue?? I mean, if ones of us have already drawn conclusions without evidence and F.B.I. and/or other adequate quality of investigation . . . I think this is not presuming each one innocent, and is not upholding the American Constitution.

And in case we attempt to sort this out, without a real investigation by impartial people who can get facts, we could get ourselves tangled plus going by what is not proof, when God's guidance of our attention is reliable, and He will guide us according to all He knows and all He is committed to doing.

And He might not be committed to settling an issue in which officials of both sides are not upholding their own Constitution. If we trust and obey God, we will get all which He is really committed to doing with us.

But this means I need to not self-righteously be pointing my finger at how someone else is wrong. Self-righteousness is wrong, too.

Hmmm. So you're saying those who have formed an opinion of Kavanaugh or his accuser, based on what they've heard so far, are wrong. But aren't you doing the same thing, forming an opinion about them? Saying they're wrong? Isn't your argument self-defeating?
 
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Calminian

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But there are Republicans who can assume that any Democrat has to be lying, and therefore Judge Kavanaugh is the only one to be presumed innocent.

So, there can be prejudice and presumption both ways.

Can you name the person who has said anything like this? That all democrats are liars and therefore.... I must have missed that line of argumentation. But please show quotes.
 
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Halbhh

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Hmmm. So you're saying those who have formed an opinion of Kavanaugh or his accuser, based on what they've heard so far, are wrong. But aren't you doing the same thing, forming an opinion about them? Saying they're wrong? Isn't your argument self-defeating?

It's invaluable for all of us to pray the Lord's prayer each day, because it has things we desperately need in it for a time like this (and, really, for most days).
 
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essentialsaltes

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FBI already has investigated Kavanaugh 6 times.

I'm sure Clarence Thomas had had numerous background checks by the FBI as well. And yet when new information came to light, it was deemed advisable for the FBI to check out those specific claims. It took three days.

You want the Senate and Senate only to investigate this

No. I already said what I wanted. You don't get to make up my mind for me.

And why are you dismissing these men? Is it really pure sexism?

I have already stated my reason. Republican Senator Graham has dismissed them, even though political bias would push him to do otherwise. But as I amplified above, I would welcome an FBI investigation into them as well.
 
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com7fy8

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FBI already has investigated Kavanaugh 6 times. It's not the FBI that confirms Judges, it's the Senate. You want the Senate and Senate only to investigate this, especially since no crime is involved.

And why are you dismissing these men? Is it really pure sexism?
I have not heard anyone of either party say that Judge Kavanaugh has been investigated six times by the F.B.I. But maybe you mean the F.B.I. has checked him out for earlier evaluations to be at lower justice positions. I don't know.

But even if the F.B.I. did check him for the Supreme Court nomination, this could have been before new and relevant things have come in. So, the new items need to be checked by an adequate investigative group. But I do not know of any group who has done on-the-ground investigation > just talking at a hearing is not all there is to investigating allegations of a crime.

You say no crimes are involved.

It is a crime to assault a woman, and it is a crime to falsely accuse a Supreme Court candidate. So, in this situation, at least one significant crime has been done. By the way, in case Judge Kavanaugh has lied by saying he never assaulted Christine, he has made a false statement in the process of a federal determination about if he is suitable to be a Supreme Court justice. Plus, if he has lied by saying he never has been under the influence of alcohol and he is lying in order to cover up what could effect a hearing about his suitability to be a Supreme Justice, this would mean he is interfering with a federal jurisdiction investigation, by helping to provide and promote false information.

Even if he were to lie while not under oath, if he is giving false info which could influence the outcome of an impartial evaluation of his qualifications to be a Supreme Court justice, this would be interfering with and attempting to mislead a federal investigation, and it would be an F.B.I. jurisdiction crime.

And, of course, if Christine is accused of lying, this also is a major crime for her to do if she has been doing this. If she is lying, she is trying to do something which is illegal and which can effect the whole country in a bad way. So, this could be a federal level crime which would be under F.B.I. jurisdiction. And yes high-level political leaders of the United States have indeed accused her of lying.

Therefore, both candidates have been accused of crimes which would have an impact on the federal level operation of the United States of America; but as of earlier this morning the media shows that the F.B.I. has not investigated any of these accusations.

So, she has a right to a fair trial with full review of evidence, while being presumed innocent. A right, by the way, is not a threat; yet, I understand there are people who use a fair trial in order to threaten people into confessing to crimes or backing down from evaluation.

And in case you decide those two men are making things up, this would mean they are obstructing justice at a federal level, and conspiring to interfere with federal-level government function of reliably and impartially evaluating a candidate for Supreme Court justice. So, this would be a federal-level crime, too, under F.B.I. jurisdiction, too.

So, if I may ask, what do you mean by saying no crimes are involved in this?
 
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com7fy8

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Hmmm. So you're saying those who have formed an opinion of Kavanaugh or his accuser, based on what they've heard so far, are wrong. But aren't you doing the same thing, forming an opinion about them? Saying they're wrong? Isn't your argument self-defeating?
Forming is not the same as already drawing a conclusion before all relevant evidence is in. My opinion is that all we have is each person's say-so, at this moment, and we need F.B.I. or comparable-quality on-the-ground input. There is a lot of hearsay, now, it seems to me.

Also, if you are forming an opinion while you already have a conclusion . . . people can do this, even not on purpose. So, I am human, too; I can do this, also.

My opinion, knowing human nature, is that either person could be lying. And liars can dramatize > ones have fooled their own mothers. So, I have to consider that we do not have a really sure way with what we have now, to know. I have my impressions, but I do not personally know these people, plus wrong people often have been able to fool their closest family members and friends. So, I don't think we have any really reliable stuff to go by, in this case.

But to me it looks like things favor Christine.

Can you name the person who has said anything like this? That all democrats are liars and therefore.... I must have missed that line of argumentation. But please show quotes.
No one has officially said this, to my knowledge. But if people are Republican and do not trust the Democrats, and do not trust what the Democrats are saying . . . then such Republicans do not feel the Democrats are telling the truth, I consider. That is not directly saying they are liars, directly, but it is not saying they tell the truth. And I think I have heard some insinuation; so I am going by impression, not someone I can actually quote.

But I personally have the impression that at times Republicans can be right and at times Democrats can be, in general.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Sorry but both sides suffer from that disease.

They do, but not to equal degrees.

...and democrats don't seem to have as much of a circle the wagons approach when it's one of their own on the hot seat for that type of behavior.
 
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