Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,

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The purpose of the 613 law myth being promoted is that God placed laws so burdensome, so many in number, that it was impossible for man to keep them. ....

I am not saying you must obey them all, but I would like to know, what is the most difficult law of those, why no one could obey it?
 
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Studyman

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I am not saying you must obey them all, but I would like to know, what is the most difficult law of those, why no one could obey it?

All men have sinned, But God has shown examples of repentant men who walked in His Commandments. Abraham, Zecharias, Simeon, Anna etc. To name a few. I would ask you to answer your own question. What Commandment of God is just to difficult for you to obey?
 
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Broken Fence

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Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

I have heard it proclaimed by religious men, who come in Christ's Name, that the "Handwriting of ordinances" which are against us, are the Good, Just, and Holy Laws, Commandments, and Statutes of God, given to Moses and Aaron to give to God's People.

I am interested in locating exactly where these handwritten ordinances, which were against God's People, are located as, for the life of me, I can not find a Command from God to HIS People that was "Against them".

In fact, the only "laws" I found in the Holy scriptures that were against men, was the doctrines and Commandments of men Jesus said the mainstream preachers of HIS Time burdened His People with. I am hoping to open up an honest, unbiased discussion about who's ordinances were taken out of the way, who were the "principalities and powers" which promoted these "handwritten ordinances", who was make a show of openly, and who was triumphed over.

If God's "handwriting of ordinances" are the ones that are against us, then God must be the "principalities and powers" that was "Spoiled". If God was the Author of the handwritten ordinances which was contrary to us, then did Jesus make a show of God openly? If God's Commandments and Laws are the handwritten ordinances that were against us, then did Jesus Triumph over God by "taking His Laws, Statutes, and Commandments "out of the way"?

Somehow I don't believe this is the message Paul was sending.

What do you think?
Paul is talking about the devil who had the keys to hell and death. He had those keys because of sin. Sin is breaking God's law. Jesus nailed all that to His cross. That is why Christians establish the law. That is why there is no condemnation to those in Christ who are lead by The Spirit.
 
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Broken Fence

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God wrote the 10 commandments and Moses wrote another 600 or so. Every time we violate one of God's laws, we have a record of debt. In those days it was a "certificate of debt". Sin is a debt we owe God. Lord Jesus paid for it. It used to be the practice for drinkers at a pub to have a slate. We'd call it a tab these days. Each purchase was recorded on the slate. At the end of the night, the patron would pay up and the slate would be wiped. I witnessed this one night when my dad took me to the pub with him. That's where we get the expression "wiping the slate clean". Satan is the accuser of the brethren. He accuses us before God day and night. He appeals to God's holy character and righteous nature. If we do not confess our sin and plead the blood of Christ, the debt remains on the books, so to speak. As soon as we confess, our sin is wiped and we have a clear conscience and fellowship is restored with God.
I think you are misunderstanding this concept of debt and sin. Christ paid our debt on the cross. Forgive your debters as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you. Your not forgiven because you confessed, your forgiven because Christ died for you.
 
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Aussie Pete

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I think you are misunderstanding this concept of debt and sin. Christ paid our debt on the cross. Forgive your debters as God for Christ's sake has forgiven you. Your not forgiven because you confessed, your forgiven because Christ died for you.
Sure, I agree absolutely. But it only becomes effective when we confess. 1 John 1:9.
 
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Studyman

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Thank you, God offered His Son as a sin offering for the sins of the whole world..

Romans 8:3.. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so He condemn sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirements of the law be fully met in us...

2Corinthians 5:21..God made Him who had no sin to be a sin offering for us so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God...

Hebrews 10:5..Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said; “sacrifice and offering you did Not desire but a body you prepared for me...

you said we are saved by His life Not His death....

Well, You cannot separate His life and His death in regards to our salvation...we can see in that in the verse you quote
Romans 5:10...For if, while we were Gods enemy, we were reconcile to God through the death of a His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life...

so we cannot say we only need to be saved without being reconciled to the One who gives us life through His Son...

Romans 6:23...the wages of sin is death, so His death was required for our sins Not His because He has no sins...and that is one of the thing that also separate Him from those who crucified with Him..

Leviticus 4 state the a sin offering is required by God if anyone breaks any of His commands...
We all sinned the bible says, so a sin offering was necessary for reconciliation, cleansing, and the forgiveness of sins by God in whom we all sinned against...

I think the argument you are making to support the teaching that God's Law Condemned Jesus to death is unjust and unsupported. The implication that the Pharisees were simply following God's Law and that is why they murdered Jesus is untrue, and preposterous in my view.

Jesus was an innocent man. He was murdered by self righteous religious men who taught lies about God for centuries. If HE came back today as a man and simply repeated His Words, religious men would hate HIM again.

Jesus, according to the Law, offered Himself (His Life) to God freely. A "Free Will offering". God's Law did not condemn Him to death. God's Law made HIS Offering most valuable. And God accepted His Offering (His Life) for the sins of the people.

The Mainstream Religion of that time was not following the "Law of Moses" when they crucified Jesus. They hated HIM and were trying to destroy HIM. This is why HE asked His Father to forgive them.

You and I will just have to disagree on this matter.
 
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Studyman

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Paul is talking about the devil who had the keys to hell and death. He had those keys because of sin. Sin is breaking God's law. Jesus nailed all that to His cross. That is why Christians establish the law. That is why there is no condemnation to those in Christ who are lead by The Spirit.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

There is a difference between the instructions of the Word of God which became Flesh, the Christ, who created ALL things, including HIS Feasts and Commandments, and the doctrines and traditions of religious man.

When asked by His Disciples what to watch for in the end times, Jesus didn't say "Sin" because HIS people already know about sin. Here is what HE said.

Matt. 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus could have said "watch out for sin", Atheists, Islam, drug dealers, pimps, Judaizers. He could have warned about all these things religious men warn about. But HE didn't. Of all the dangers His Disciples faced, Jesus warned of just one.

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

He warned of self proclaimed "Christians". Philosophies of religious men who claim Jesus as their Christ.

This warning is repeated over and over in the Bible.

Paul knew of this teaching of the Jesus of the Bible and furthered it throughout HIS Letters.

Jesus didn't "nail" satan to the cross, or sin, as it still lies at the door and it's desire if for us.

Men still sinned after He ascended and were still condemned for sin. Ananias was killed because of sin. Jesus didn't nail sin to the cross. You sin isn't against me.

But the teaching of Gameliel, that great religious voice, that most trusted religious scholar and theologian who taught Paul how to be accepted by God, his teaching was against them. The mainstream religion which "taught for doctrines the Commandments of Men", these "Handwriting of ordinances" were against them.

But Paul is talking to folks who are not governed by "handwriting",

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

I truly appreciate the reply, and we have been told Paul is hard to understand. But for me, I keep in mind that HE is speaking from the Spirit of the Christ. And the Christ doesn't contradict himself.
 
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pasifika

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I think the argument you are making to support the teaching that God's Law Condemned Jesus to death is unjust and unsupported. The implication that the Pharisees were simply following God's Law and that is why they murdered Jesus is untrue, and preposterous in my view.

Jesus was an innocent man. He was murdered by self righteous religious men who taught lies about God for centuries. If HE came back today as a man and simply repeated His Words, religious men would hate HIM again.

Jesus, according to the Law, offered Himself (His Life) to God freely. A "Free Will offering". God's Law did not condemn Him to death. God's Law made HIS Offering most valuable. And God accepted His Offering (His Life) for the sins of the people.

The Mainstream Religion of that time was not following the "Law of Moses" when they crucified Jesus. They hated HIM and were trying to destroy HIM. This is why HE asked His Father to forgive them.

You and I will just have to disagree on this matter.
Thank you for your response, I just want to say that I have never mentioned in my post regarding the Pharisees following God’s law that why they murder Jesus..God knew His Son will die, Jesus knew it, the OT Prophets prophesied about it...

so, if Jesus offer His life for the sins of the people, then whose law that condemn people for their sins?







 
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Studyman

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Thank you for your response, I just want to say that I have never mentioned in my post regarding the Pharisees following God’s law that why they murder Jesus..God knew His Son will die, Jesus knew it, the OT Prophets prophesied about it...

so, if Jesus offer His life for the sins of the people, then whose law that condemn people for their sins?

Yes, God knew religious men would murder Jesus, because HE was righteous, from the foundation of the world. God knows the end from the beginning.

God's Law condemned those who broke it, not Jesus. To say God's Law Condemned Jesus is simply untrue.

Religious tradition and doctrines are a powerful influence. We have all been influenced by them. It is good to have these kinds of discussion to flush them out.

Thank you for your contribution.
 
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Broken Fence

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Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

There is a difference between the instructions of the Word of God which became Flesh, the Christ, who created ALL things, including HIS Feasts and Commandments, and the doctrines and traditions of religious man.

When asked by His Disciples what to watch for in the end times, Jesus didn't say "Sin" because HIS people already know about sin. Here is what HE said.

Matt. 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus could have said "watch out for sin", Atheists, Islam, drug dealers, pimps, Judaizers. He could have warned about all these things religious men warn about. But HE didn't. Of all the dangers His Disciples faced, Jesus warned of just one.

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

He warned of self proclaimed "Christians". Philosophies of religious men who claim Jesus as their Christ.

This warning is repeated over and over in the Bible.

Paul knew of this teaching of the Jesus of the Bible and furthered it throughout HIS Letters.

Jesus didn't "nail" satan to the cross, or sin, as it still lies at the door and it's desire if for us.

Men still sinned after He ascended and were still condemned for sin. Ananias was killed because of sin. Jesus didn't nail sin to the cross. You sin isn't against me.

But the teaching of Gameliel, that great religious voice, that most trusted religious scholar and theologian who taught Paul how to be accepted by God, his teaching was against them. The mainstream religion which "taught for doctrines the Commandments of Men", these "Handwriting of ordinances" were against them.

But Paul is talking to folks who are not governed by "handwriting",

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

I truly appreciate the reply, and we have been told Paul is hard to understand. But for me, I keep in mind that HE is speaking from the Spirit of the Christ. And the Christ doesn't contradict himself.
I'll tell you want made me take a second look is Pentecost. This is the day God gave the law on Mt. Sinai and the day God sent His Holy Spirit. The two are entwined. This is law God is writing on your heart. The Torah was the doctrine of Christ. God's law is what He taught, people misunderstand this. God says He will have mercy not sacrifice. The law was nailed to the cross. That is why a born again christian will not commit sin. A Christian a true christian will keep her/him pure because of what Christ did.
 
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Studyman

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I'll tell you want made me take a second look is Pentecost. This is the day God gave the law on Mt. Moriah and the day God sent His Holy Spirit. The two are entwined. This is law God is writing on your heart. The Torah was the doctrine of Christ. God's law is what He taught, people misunderstand this. God says He will have mercy not sacrifice. The law was nailed to the cross. That is why a born again christian will not commit sin. A Christian a true christian will keep her/him pure because of what Christ did.

You are right about a born again Christian not Transgressing God's Laws. In fact, John said one way for us to be sure we are Christ's is if we keep His Commandments. You are mistaken about Jesus "nailing" God's Laws to His Cross, Triumphing over God's Laws, or Spoiling the Powers who taught God"s Laws (Prophets). God's Law is not against us. The Teaching of religious men is. It wasn't God's Laws that led Israel astray. If the Disciples had not known God's Laws, they could not have counted correctly and be gathered on the Christ's Holy Feast of Weeks. The Pharisees, who were teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men, were not gathered with them on the Christ's Holy Feast.

Pentecost, a High Sabbath, is a good place for you to look.

Thanks for the reply.
 
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Broken Fence

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You are right about a born again Christian not Transgressing God's Laws. In fact, John said one way for us to be sure we are Christ's is if we keep His Commandments. You are mistaken about Jesus "nailing" God's Laws to His Cross, Triumphing over God's Laws, or Spoiling the Powers who taught God"s Laws (Prophets). God's Law is not against us. The Teaching of religious men is. It wasn't God's Laws that led Israel astray. If the Disciples had not known God's Laws, they could not have counted correctly and be gathered on the Christ's Holy Feast of Weeks. The Pharisees, who were teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men, were not gathered with them on the Christ's Holy Feast.

Pentecost, a High Sabbath, is a good place for you to look.

Thanks for the reply.
The nailing of God's law to the cross was not triumph over the law but a fulfillment we are not suppose to sin. Sin is bad that is why God writes His law upon your heart.
 
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Broken Fence

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I think maybe you mean Mt Sinai? But not absolutely sure what you were told.
Oh your right. Just the fact that Holy Spirit came that day blows my mind.
 
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ralliann

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Oh your right. Just the fact that Holy Spirit came that day blows my mind.
What was given there was the covenant commandments not the whole law.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

De 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

De 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

De 10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me. {commandments: Heb. words }
Ex 20:18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

The whole law was not finished until later

De 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
 
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pasifika

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Yes, God knew religious men would murder Jesus, because HE was righteous, from the foundation of the world. God knows the end from the beginning.

God's Law condemned those who broke it, not Jesus. To say God's Law Condemned Jesus is simply untrue.

Religious tradition and doctrines are a powerful influence. We have all been influenced by them. It is good to have these kinds of discussion to flush them out.

Thank you for your contribution.
Yes God’s law condemn us because we all broke it (because of the evil in us) Not Jesus..and the Son of God offer to pay our penalty required by God’s law which is death...
So is the evil who was in them that put the Son of God to death the same evil who made us broke God’s law..

Acts: 2:23..“ This man (Jesus) was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge, and you with the help of the wicked men put Him to death by nailing him on the cross..

John 8:44..” You belong to your father, the devil and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning....
 
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Studyman

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Yes God’s law condemn us because we all broke it (because of the evil in us) Not Jesus..and the Son of God offer to pay our penalty required by God’s law which is death...
So is the evil who was in them that put the Son of God to death the same evil who made us broke God’s law..

Acts: 2:23..“ This man (Jesus) was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge, and you with the help of the wicked men put Him to death by nailing him on the cross..

John 8:44..” You belong to your father, the devil and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning....

Yes, religious man condemned Jesus to death. Not God.

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Why? Because God's Law did not condemn Jesus.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

"God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge".

Religious men condemned Jesus to death. But death could not hold Him because God's Law did not condemn Him.

He offered His Life to God, a Free Will offering, and religious men murdered Him.

I think it is important to understand that God's Law did not condemn Jesus to death, that is why Death couldn't hold Him.

The handwritten ordinances which condemned Him to death, and all of us, which were against us, was nailed to the Cross. It was the "teaching for doctrines the Commandments of men" that condemned Jesus, and relegated strangers as "without God and without Hope in the World". A Religion which placed great burdens on the necks of God's People that they, nor their fathers could bear.

These are those powers who the Christ Spoiled when "their Law" condemned Jesus to death, but couldn't keep Him dead. He triumphed over them, when God raised Him from a death their handwriting of ordinances demanded. He made a show of them openly, when their own God reversed the death penalty their law demanded.

This is important, God's Law did not condemn Jesus. At least according to the God of the Bible.
 
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pasifika

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Yes, religious man condemned Jesus to death. Not God.

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Why? Because God's Law did not condemn Jesus.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

"God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge".

Religious men condemned Jesus to death. But death could not hold Him because God's Law did not condemn Him.

He offered His Life to God, a Free Will offering, and religious men murdered Him.

I think it is important to understand that God's Law did not condemn Jesus to death, that is why Death couldn't hold Him.

The handwritten ordinances which condemned Him to death, and all of us, which were against us, was nailed to the Cross. It was the "teaching for doctrines the Commandments of men" that condemned Jesus, and relegated strangers as "without God and without Hope in the World". A Religion which placed great burdens on the necks of God's People that they, nor their fathers could bear.

These are those powers who the Christ Spoiled when "their Law" condemned Jesus to death, but couldn't keep Him dead. He triumphed over them, when God raised Him from a death their handwriting of ordinances demanded. He made a show of them openly, when their own God reversed the death penalty their law demanded.

This is important, God's Law did not condemn Jesus. At least according to the God of the Bible.

Yes, God’s law only condemned those who broke it...the verse in Colossians 2:14 did not mentioned that the handwriting of ordinance was against Him (Jesus) BUT against Us (sinners)...

Colossians 2:14(NIV)..having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemn us, He has taken it away, nailing it to the cross...

So Colossians 2:14, was referring to the law that against and condemn us (“the sinners”)
 
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BABerean2

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Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

I have heard it proclaimed by religious men, who come in Christ's Name, that the "Handwriting of ordinances" which are against us, are the Good, Just, and Holy Laws, Commandments, and Statutes of God, given to Moses and Aaron to give to God's People.

I am interested in locating exactly where these handwritten ordinances, which were against God's People, are located as, for the life of me, I can not find a Command from God to HIS People that was "Against them".

In fact, the only "laws" I found in the Holy scriptures that were against men, was the doctrines and Commandments of men Jesus said the mainstream preachers of HIS Time burdened His People with. I am hoping to open up an honest, unbiased discussion about who's ordinances were taken out of the way, who were the "principalities and powers" which promoted these "handwritten ordinances", who was make a show of openly, and who was triumphed over.

If God's "handwriting of ordinances" are the ones that are against us, then God must be the "principalities and powers" that was "Spoiled". If God was the Author of the handwritten ordinances which was contrary to us, then did Jesus make a show of God openly? If God's Commandments and Laws are the handwritten ordinances that were against us, then did Jesus Triumph over God by "taking His Laws, Statutes, and Commandments "out of the way"?

Somehow I don't believe this is the message Paul was sending.

What do you think?

The following passages provide a contrast between the Sinai Covenant given at Mount Sinai, and the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?


Gal 4:24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—
Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.


Heb 12:18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, (Mount Sinai)
Heb 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."
Heb 12:21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")
Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

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