BLM Protests Cop's Wedding

Ana the Ist

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Like I said, cry me a river.

The OP asked whether it was an effective means of BLM protest for a black man to picket the wedding of a cop who killed an unarmed black man.

I actually never asked that in the OP. You made that up.

Clearly, we see people are more concerned about the poor white cop having his wedding disturbed over the murder he committed,

Well, murder is a legal term....as of now, he hasn't been convicted of muder.

than they are of the life of the black man who actually died.

There are justifiable reactions and unjustifiable reactions. Some people clearly think that "protesting" a wedding is unjustifiable.

Dismissing video blatantly showing the murder, while trumping up charges of "emotional distress", "inciting violence", blah blah blah...against the black man, who...apparently...the presence of a black man at someone's wedding makes some people uncomfortable.

Lol you make it sound like they were attendees sitting with the rest of the guests during the ceremony. How about taking a break from whatever fantasy you're entertaining and join the rest of us here in reality?

So no: Black Lives in fact still do NOT matter. People's minds remain unchanged. Thus, his protest was ineffective. Thank you for answering the OP's question.

You're the first person I can honestly say I've seen declare that "black lives don't matter". Congrats.
 
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Ana the Ist

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No insult intended -- clearly you find BLM a lot more intimidating than the woman's march

Their goal was to intimidate. Pointing that out isn't a reflection of my feelings or fears.

I'll take this as an admission that you understand your previous statements regarding such are wrong.


-- in spite of them both seeinking extrajudicial justice against someone they believe has done them wrong.

Not only have you failed to show that was the goal of the women's march....you've failed to even suggest what this supposed "crime" they're seeking justice for is.

On top of that, I've given you the reason for the march....in their own words....which completely contradicts everything you've said about it.

I'm not sure what else to tell you at this point. It's not just that you've failed to back up your claims, you've been given irrefutable evidence to the contrary. You're wrong.
 
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rjs330

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Indeed -- but 84% of police have admitted to either using or witnessing excessive force, and 61% admitted to not always reporting serious criminal violations by other officers.

You know what they say about not being part of the solution... besides, you tell me: is there ever justification for the police to shoot an unarmed man?

Excessive force is completely subjective and certainly varies from putting a little extra tweek on a hold which causes more pain than necessary at the time but isn't damaging to the individuals and beating the snot out of someone. There is no way any human being can he expected to 100% of the time act completely appropriately under the conditions which police are often faced with. I guarantee you couldn't do it. It's foolish to expect that. Serious excessive force where a person is truly damaged is far a few between. And cops who do that should be prosecuted for it.

And I would put money on the criminal activity by cops take place in the big cities where criminal activity runs rampant in the government as a whole. Stop the criminality of the government and it will filter down to the police as well. It's a political culture that's disgusting and it filters to the police. The other part of that is the really poor hiring practices of those cities in trying to fill the need for police positions and hiring crappy people just to get bodies. When you lower standards you get lower standards people. When you hire criminals you get criminals.

Yes there is justification for shooting an unarmed man. It's based on the totality of the circumstances on what the cops saw, heard, understood and believed at the time. It does happen. Just like Brown in St Louis.
 
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rjs330

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I don't see it as a total jump from "black person died -> racism"...if it were just a few isolated cases, and there wasn't a huge disparity by race in terms of police shooting rates.

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

Obviously if it was just something that happened once or twice, and there was no observable trend, then I'd be the first one telling them "chill, let's wait until all of the facts are in".

But a difference of a magnitude of 2.5:1 doesn't point to rare outlier scenarios, it points to a definitive trend.

I'll definitely agree with you that the mentality, similar to the "always Trump" vs. "never Trump" factions, definitely exists on both sides of this argument as well. However, the opposition started as a disingenuous semantics game by conservatives looking to find any way possible to oppose the group for reasons of partisanship.

Numbers are only numbers. They simply point out a fact. They say nothing about why. That's the real question that needs to he answered. There are many like BLM that don't ask why they just assume that it's racism.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Excessive force is completely subjective

Actually, it's not as subjective as you'd think. Police are trained (or at least they're supposed to be) in the "Use of force continuum."

There are six levels of force an officer can use, and the idea is, whatever level the suspect is using, the officer goes one level higher -- and that's it. More than that is "excessive."

There are plenty of areas you can look this up, and indeed, they vary from department to department -- here's one:

https://www.nij.gov/topics/law-enforcement/officer-safety/use-of-force/Pages/continuum.aspx

There is no way any human being can he expected to 100% of the time act completely appropriately under the conditions which police are often faced with. I guarantee you couldn't do it. It's foolish to expect that.

No argument there -- but when I screw up, there will be consequences on me. Blaming the victim for my mistake is not the answer.


Serious excessive force where a person is truly damaged is far a few between. And cops who do that should be prosecuted for it.

Any cop should be disciplined for excessive force -- the more excessive the force, the more severe the discipline.

A few shoves might get a dressing-down from my lieutenant, a few kicks might get me a written repremand... but when an unarmed civilian ends up dead because of me, I'm in serious trouble.

And I would put money on the criminal activity by cops take place in the big cities where criminal activity runs rampant in the government as a whole. Stop the criminality of the government and it will filter down to the police as well.

Drain the swamp, and the righteousness will trickle down? Good luck.

The other part of that is the really poor hiring practices of those cities in trying to fill the need for police positions and hiring crappy people just to get bodies. When you lower standards you get lower standards people. When you hire criminals you get criminals.

Agreed. Police work is a thankless job -- we need to give better incentives for the right people to join up, so we can weed out the wrong ones when they get caught.

Yes there is justification for shooting an unarmed man. It's based on the totality of the circumstances on what the cops saw, heard, understood and believed at the time. It does happen. Just like Brown in St Louis.

I can see if the police made a legitimate error in judgement and thought a man was armed when he actually wasn't... but police have a variety of tools and techniques available to them... No unarmed man, no matter how belligerent, is going to be a problem once he gets a face full of pepper spray or a taser to the chest.

Consider the military -- any soldier in a combat zone is kept aware of the ROE (Rules of Engagement) in force at the time -- the specific set of circumstances that determine exactly when, and at whom, they are allowed to fire their weapons. Even in the most stressful combat conditions, Heaven have mercy on a soldier who ignores the ROE... because his superiors will not.

A police officer's job is stressful as well -- no doubt about that... but surely we can expect them to adhere to the same level of fire discipline as a soldier?
 
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Trogdor the Burninator

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There is no way any human being can he expected to 100% of the time act completely appropriately under the conditions which police are often faced with. I guarantee you couldn't do it. It's foolish to expect that.

So why do police expect members of the public to do it? Time and again we see people shot by police and there's usually someone commenting that "they just should have obeyed and done exactly what the cop told them to do".
 
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Ana the Ist

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You know what they say about not being part of the solution... besides, you tell me: is there ever justification for the police to shoot an unarmed man?

Of course...is that a serious question?
 
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Ana the Ist

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No argument there -- but when I screw up, there will be consequences on me. Blaming the victim for my mistake is not the answer.

We have to allow room for some mistakes on behalf of the police though. If we don't, we'll end up with a police force that's perpetually inexperienced and ineffective because we fired or jailed every cop the first time they made a mistake. That, or no one would ever take the job (no one with any other options anyway)...it's not as if they get paid 250k a year to risk getting shot if they were right about a subject having a gun or life in prison because they thought the subject had a gun but didn't. Perhaps the worst situation would be an entire police force that simply won't take anymore risks. That's your kid's high school getting shot up? Sorry, I can't risk life in prison for shooting someone who I thought had a gun....better just wait outside the school till the shooting stops and then go inside and search for survivors.

Agreed. Police work is a thankless job -- we need to give better incentives for the right people to join up, so we can weed out the wrong ones when they get caught.

No argument there...I'd only add that it's actually much worse than that. Cops have one of the very few jobs where they're expected to perform their duties perfectly every time....and out of those jobs, it's one of even fewer with stakes that involve life and death.


I can see if the police made a legitimate error in judgement and thought a man was armed when he actually wasn't... but police have a variety of tools and techniques available to them... No unarmed man, no matter how belligerent, is going to be a problem once he gets a face full of pepper spray or a taser to the chest.

Pepper spray doesn't work at all on a small percentage of the population, and not all cops carry tasers. Of those that do, they also are routinely criticized for their use.

Consider the military -- any soldier in a combat zone is kept aware of the ROE (Rules of Engagement) in force at the time -- the specific set of circumstances that determine exactly when, and at whom, they are allowed to fire their weapons. Even in the most stressful combat conditions, Heaven have mercy on a soldier who ignores the ROE... because his superiors will not.

I can't imagine where you got this idea. If you think the reality of cops getting away with "murder" is bad....then the reality of what our soldiers get away with in wartime is far far worse.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2003/apr/01/iraq.rorymccarthy

Don't take my meaning here wrong...I'm not trying to condemn the actions of anyone in the military. I'm just tired of them being held up to the police in comparison because the person making that comparison doesn't really understand what goes on in the military. I mean, check the date on that article...the war had barely even started.
 
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Ana the Ist

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So why do police expect members of the public to do it?

They don't though. For every example you could find where a cop reacted to someone non-compliant by shooting, there's likely tens if not hundreds of thousands of examples where they didn't....and instead gave the subject more time to comply.

Those incidents are almost never going to make the news though.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Pepper spray doesn't work at all on a small percentage of the population, and not all cops carry tasers. Of those that do, they also are routinely criticized for their use.

This is true, but no sensible person is going to pretend that an officer who is a little too trigger happy with his taser is in any way comparable to one who is too trigger happy with his service revolver.
 
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TLK Valentine

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They don't though. For every example you could find where a cop reacted to someone non-compliant by shooting, there's likely tens if not hundreds of thousands of examples where they didn't....and instead gave the subject more time to comply.

Those incidents are almost never going to make the news though.

Probably because those "incidents" are of cops doing exactly what they're supposed to do.

When that becomes newsworthy, we have a problem.
 
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