Blackness Has Become a Commodity

[A_Thinker]

It moves you up. Being a black woman is better than being a black man. And a black lesbian is even better.

If blacks ... and Native Americans ... and Hispanics ... are, largely, struggling to pull up through the ranks of American society, ... isn't being able to "move up" essential ?

 

[A_Thinker]

And there’s the rub. It doesn’t deal with actual discrimination, but potential. And the more the potential, the more weight your voice should carry.

If there was no actual discrimination, ... there would be no perception of potential discrimination ...

 

[grasping the after wind]

We really should begin to move away from such designations, at least officially ... while, simultaneously, working together to ensure the blessings of our country's founding principles for all Americans. We will ever be mired in a racial context so long as we continue to struggle to codify our distinctions, rather than our commonalities ...

I am not sure I know what you are suggesting here when you say we should move away from such designations officially. Doing away with affirmative action? government documentation of racial identity? I can't think of too many things involving racial distinctions that are codified that are not there with the intention of ensuring the blessings of our country's founding upon all Americans. Whether they actually are effective in accomplishing that goal is questionable.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Isn't this a country which promotes the idea that people can be what they want to be ?

No I don't think so. I would say that this is a country that promotes the idea that you can aspire to succeed according to your abilities and effort rather than according to your social class. One cannot be anything other than what one objectively is.

 

[grasping the after wind]

If blacks ... and Native Americans ... and Hispanics ... are, largely, struggling to pull up through the ranks of American society, ... isn't being able to "move up" essential ?

I don't know what you are defining as "move up" but I suspect it is not what Hammster was referring to. I would think Hammster is referring to the intersectional hierarchy. The more one can claim to be oppressed due to the identity group one belongs to the more status one attains.

 

[grasping the after wind]

If there was no actual discrimination, ... there would be no perception of potential discrimination ...

That assumes that perception is somehow the same as reality.

 

[A_Thinker]

The more one can claim to be oppressed due to the identity group one belongs to the more status one attains.

And that is only true, for some few, ... because such oppression exists ...

 

[A_Thinker]

That assumes that perception is somehow the same as reality.

Why would perceptions exist ... except that they reflect reality?

American blacks have believed the promises of American society ... only to be disappointed again and again.

No fulfillment of "40 acres and a mule", slow progress on the discarding of second-class citizenship ... which finally culminated in the Civil Rights advances of the 1960's, ... and finally, an enduring GAP between the levels of success of American blacks ... and American non-blacks.

What, exactly, are we mis-perceiving ???

 

[Hammster]

He is an example ... of those in our society who have used and will use, if allowed, their power to try to keep blacks back from economic success.

My brother went through similar harassment in his position as an worker for Amtrak.

If you talk to sufficiently representative numbers of blacks operating in corporate America, this is the experience that you will hear revealed many times.

You will hear other stories ... from those who were fortunate enough to steer clear of such characters in their working lives, but what I've related is certainly the default experience of working while black in America.

So you really don’t have an answer. What you have is, at best, anecdotal. For my to buy into your narrative I’d have to believe that for every hard working black man in corporate America, there’s a racist keeping him down, since that’s the default position. But in how many of those cases was it skin color and not performance? This isn’t to say that there aren’t racists out there. But to lay every setback at the foot of racism seems to be an easy excuse.

Even in your case, you manage 25 years at a company in which I’m sure there were some advancements. Were the advancements based on your merit or skin color? Or were they based on some white man who was anti-racist and thought you needed help? I would hope that they were based on merit. And I’m sure you do, as well.

These all need to be taken on an individual basis because we are dealing with individuals. There’s no systemic racism out there. It’s a cop out to say there is.

 

[Hammster]

If blacks ... and Native Americans ... and Hispanics ... are, largely, struggling to pull up through the ranks of American society, ... isn't being able to "move up" essential ?

Actually you are good example of this. You think that the color of your skin makes you more worthy to listen to than me.

 

[A_Thinker]

This isn’t to say that there aren’t racists out there. But to lay every setback at the foot of racism seems to be an easy excuse.

Where have I said that EVERY setback is due to racism ???

Isn't it enough that racism contributes to SOME of the setbacks that blacks experience in this country ?

 

[Hammster]

If there was no actual discrimination, ... there would be no perception of potential discrimination ...

True. But the potential for discrimination doesn’t mean that there’s discrimination at every turn. It’s all individual cases. You need to stop buying into the narrative of systemic racism.

 

[A_Thinker]

These all need to be taken on an individual basis because we are dealing with individuals. There’s no systemic racism out there. It’s a cop out to say there is.

To the extent that there is no remedy for such practices, ... it is systemic.

That's actually the rationale for why there is any racial sensitivity training in the workplace. Corporations know that it happens ... and they want to shield themselves from lawsuits ...

 

[Hammster]

Where have I said that EVERY setback is due to racism ???

Isn't it enough that racism contributes to SOME of the setbacks that blacks experience in this country ?

Right here.

but what I've related is certainly the default experience of working while black in America.

 

[A_Thinker]

Actually you are good example of this. You think that the color of your skin makes you more worthy to listen to than me.

Where have I stated anything like this ???

 

[Hammster]

To the extent that there is no remedy for such practices, ... it is systemic.

That's actually the rationale for why there is any racial sensitivity training in the workplace. Corporations know that it happens ... and they want to shield themselves from lawsuits ...

No remedy? Has no one ever been fired for being racist?

 

[Hammster]

Where have I stated anything like this ???

You haven’t stated it. But the implication is in your posts.

 

[A_Thinker]

True. But the potential for discrimination doesn’t mean that there’s discrimination at every turn.

Where have I said that there is discrimination at every turn ?

I have merely said that such discrimination exists ...

 

[A_Thinker]

... but what I've related is certainly the default experience of working while black in America.

Right here.

This is my actual untruncated statement ...

"You will hear other stories ... from those who were fortunate enough to steer clear of such characters in their working lives, but what I've related is certainly the default experience of working while black in America."

Do you not think that this has EVER been the experience of most blacks in America ?

If so, ... when exactly do you think that changed ?

 

[Hammster]

Where have I said that there is discrimination at every turn ?

I have merely said that such discrimination exists ...

Right here.

but what I've related is certainly the default experience of working while black in America.