Black teens fundraising for their high school football team held at gunpoint by white woman

[variant]

I guess we will have to disagree on the definition of racism. I find racism, as I defined it, to be heinous and repugnant and engaged in by a very small segment of the populace. I find your definition( buying into stereotypes and acting in an irrational manner something I would have called being biased or prejudiced or ignorant de[pending upon the circumstance. ) makes racism seem a much less terrible thing than it has always been considered to be in the past and engaged in by almost everyone of every race at one tiome or another. IMO a racist is a person that believes him/herself superior to others by virtue of that person's racial background and acts accordingly not irrationally so but purposefully so. A woman cowering in fear unable to leave her house because she has bought into a stereotype is not the equivalent of the boss that passes over a better qualified person of a different race to promote one of less qualifications of his/her own race. IMO one is a racist while the other is just mislead.

The fear I think is just a more basic and honest depiction of what racism really is. I don't think people need to join hate groups because they feel legitimately superior to anyone. The psychology is more often one of fear, the complaints are about being replaced, feeling worthless, and lacking direction but finding it in hatred. Hatred, is born in fear.

I think the subtle race based biases that end in irrational behavior is something that comes up too often and something I think we all need to be vigilant to protect against. I'm calling it racism because it is prejudice and irrational action based upon perceived racial difference. It ends up having a fairly problematic effect if not checked.

And again, there's the fear. Had this woman dealt with her fear in a constructive manner and worked through it, it's unlikely she would have pulled a gun on four teenagers trying to sell some junk for school. There is no question she was legitimately afraid, she wouldn't have done what she did otherwise, but I don't think there is any question that this was an act of racism either. One that she should get help with and work through for her own sake.

 

[variant]

See the definitions I just posted on the "Trump racial" thread.
Being prejudiced is not being a racist.

I wonder what gave all those people that idea...

It can be, it depends on what sort of prejudice one is holding and why.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

And, "door-to-door" soliciting?!?! Quite unheard of. At a grocery store exit perhaps, but never that way.

You're right - kids in America would never go door-to-door soliciting for things

 

[bèlla]

Our responses are often a reflection of exposure. My neighborhood is 90 percent Caucasian. We lead comfortable carefree lives.

Intersecting with someone outside of that demographic whose behavior doesn’t mirror the norm may warrant a look, thought, or comment to another.

I am less likely to notice the quiet passerby minding his business. But the one emulating the Sandman shuffle panhandling who nearly falls over mid-shuffle in 80 degree weather is something else.

If that’s the lone exposure you have to others unlike yourself you’re going to form opinions. That’s human nature. Time and different experiences alter our perspective.

 

[Hank77]

You're right - kids in America would never go door-to-door soliciting for things

There's a long tradition of kids selling door to door for clubs and school functions. We are always ready for Girl Scout cookies. At least, one year the Spanish class sold greeting cards. This year the junior high school English class is selling flats of peaches (that they picked themselves) to earn money for a trip to D.C. (I think).

 

[RDKirk]

And, many adults react very similarly to a five year old... and CNN panders to that.

All stations are now the same way.

And those adults need to grow up. Stop making excuses for them. "CNN made me do it" does't wash.

 

[RDKirk]

I suggest the women is not racist but afraid. Her fear led her to believe a stereotype. As an earlier poster pointed out, that stereotype is reinforced by the images one sees on the nightly news. Though others might reasonably disagree with my take, it is my opinion that a racist is one that believes their race is superior to others. Being afraid of people of other races, especially of young males of other races if one is an older woman, because one believes a stereotype does not rise to the level of racism IMO.

It would be racism even if the woman were black, if she would not have the same reaction with white or Asian kids.

Check out the statements of the black women at 2:35 of this video. Yes, that's still racism.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

And, many adults react very similarly to a five year old... and CNN panders to that.

So does the fox news channel, other stations.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

staff edit

So am I, however pulling a gun on someone is an inherently aggressive move. If she was afraid she could simply have told them to go away, or threatened to call the police. The kids hadn't done anything other than approach her door at that point. Holding them in her yard under threat of being shot was stupid.

 

[Willie T]

Strange how so many things can suddenly change in the opening of an eye when situations are reversed.

 

[rambot]

Good story. Kind of reminds me of the summation the lawyer made in the movie "A Time To Kill" when after describing the assault of a little Black girl to the predominately-white jury he had told to close their eyes, he ended with: "Now, imagine she is White."

To be clear you are making this woman out to be a victim. You are comparing rape, assault and murder victim story, with a woman who pulled a gun.

It is preposterous to me to make that comparison and disappointing neither yourself or DAWright, have noticed you did that.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Strange how so many things can suddenly change in the opening of an eye when situations are reversed.

I would have never pulled a gun on them. So I do see a reversed. I believe if these were white kids. She would have opened the door. And not held a gun on them.

 

[SummerMadness]

Hey, black kids, if someone points a gun at you, all that matters is you don't get shot. If you do get shot, let's ask what you did to get shot as opposed to ask why a person pulled a gun on you. And when you're doing something people have been doing for decades, we'll lament the idea of anyone doing that because at the end of the day, we need to find an angle that makes whatever the black kids doing is wrong. How dare you raise money for your team?! Let's concoct ideas for what is an acceptable way to raise money, so we can argue that pulling a gun on kids is okay.

My favorite is to argue that black people are responsible for any black person committing a crime. You should accept the fact that you are a suspect and must justify your existence by not being seen or heard... just don't apply that to white people; white guy commits a terrorist attack to target "invading Mexicans," remember, he is a bad INDIVIDUAL. Black person commits a crime, then all of you need to keep your hands where I can see them because I'm going to get my gun!

 

[Go Braves]

Exactly.
If they came to my door (any color)
I best be ready?
It's crazy out there nowdays.
Nothing new under the sun.
M-Bob

Really Bob? Are things up on the mountain so violent you can't open your front door during daylight hours when folks simply knock?

Between the Jehovah Witnesses folks, Girl Scouts & their cookies, kids selling xyz, we get a fair number. Have never had a fear, never had a problem. Last time we had a sports team selling things for a fundraiser they were selling cobbler and jerky! Oh man that was like Santa Claus showing up at the door.

 

[JCFantasy23]

If she was so uncomfortable/worried, why even open the door? There isn't any excuse to pull a gun on four teens in this situation, so her being arrested is the only thing that makes sense. Sounds like she may need some additional help.

 

[RDKirk]

If she was so uncomfortable/worried, why even open the door? There isn't any excuse to pull a gun on four teens in this situation, so her being arrested is the only thing that makes sense. Sounds like she may need some additional help.

She was being the neighborhood Lone Ranger, putting a stop to these "thugs" roaming her streets.

 

[SummerMadness]

I don't understand the logic of saying people are not soldiers, and then thinking it's fine when they pull a gun on unarmed kids. That's precisely the reason they shouldn't be carrying a weapon or a perfect example of why people should take classes on when and where to use your gun. Arguing that some kids are in the wrong because you saw something bad in the newspaper is pure racial prejudice. Would it be okay for me to pull a gun on every white male that makes me feel threatened because of Patrick Crusius? Because that is certainly the argument being made to justify holding some kids at gunpoint. And then questioning the motives of kids fundraising is no better because you simply have fear of a black planet.

 

[mina]

If you don't want strangers knocking on your door, put up a no soliciting sign on your yard. Or like someone else said, just don't answer the door. Guns need not be involved.

We have people of all ages and races coming by all the time for stuff: JW's, window replacement, real estate agents (once we had one saying a family wanted to buy our house that week if they could for an insane price sight unseen; we passed b/c we like our house and don't want to move although my husband told them if they would make it 2 million we would do it in a heartbeat!), school fundraising, asking for votes or political support, survey's, handyman people asking for jobs, etc.... We put up a sign that unless you are selling girl scout cookies to move along and it stopped everything (except the GS cookies). It had just gotten overwhelming; like daily and people usually came by when it was nap time for a baby or toddler and that woke them up and made us both cranky. Even if I didn't answer the door they would ring a zillion times.
Before the sign; I always look through the door window to see who it is; if I didn't feel safe or felt like it was just a waste of time; I didn't open the door.

ETA: I had forgotten this , but right after I had a newborn, I was home by myself and heard really loud talking. I followed the sound and found some middle school aged kids sitting on our small porch. Like what? I thought that was bizarre and had a flash of "what if it's some crazy robbery thing?" , but never once did I feel I needed to pull a gun or even call the cops at that point. I have taught middle school so I put on my best teacher face and opened the door really fast. They jumped and I asked them why they were there. In their developing middle schooler minds they thought and said, they were hot and they needed to sit in the shade and this is what they saw that would be shady. So, I explained that I had a baby sleeping and that if they woke it up so help them I would be out in a flash to scream at them and wave a pitchfork at them because I was a mom without sleep (which made them laugh). They said sorry and left. They were not the same race as me, but it never crossed my mind to round them up with a gun and scare them to death. We get a lot of foot traffic and the only time I've ever felt unsafe was with political candidates or roofers that tried to creepy flirt with me.

 

[SummerMadness]

If you don't want strangers knocking on your door, put up a no soliciting sign on your yard. Or like someone else said, just don't answer the door. Guns need not be involved.

We have people of all ages and races coming by all the time for stuff: JW's, window replacement, real estate agents (once we had one saying a family wanted to buy our house that week if they could for an insane price sight unseen; we passed b/c we like our house and don't want to move although my husband told them if they would make it 2 million we would do it in a heartbeat!), school fundraising, asking for votes or political support, survey's, handyman people asking for jobs, etc.... We put up a sign that unless you are selling girl scout cookies to move along and it stopped everything (except the GS cookies).
Before the sign; I always look through the door window to see who it is; if I didn't feel safe or felt like it was just a waste of time; I didn't open the door.

I don't open the door to Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormon Missionaries, but kids raising money for their sports team, don't need to sell me anything, I just give them a donation for their team. And at no point do I think I need a gun.

This story reminds me of the kid that knocked on the door of a home to ask for directions and a man shot at him. In that case too, people rushed to demonize the black kid because his first priority should have been to make the white people around him feel safe. That's a lot of responsibility to direct at a child, it makes me think of the question, why can't black kids just be kids? As far as I am concerned, if children make you pull a gun, then you have a problem.

 

[SummerMadness]

Conflation. My point was that even if the adult had some just cause to be suspicious, she still would have ended up in the wrong, with charges pending. Did I mention no one was shot?

No one getting shot should not be a cause for celebration, it's a good a thing no one was shot, but it does not mean it's any less a problem. The moment a gun is introduced by a civilian, whether the weapon is fired is less an issue than the gun being drawn.