Black Panther & Imperialism: Is Hollywood Afraid of Indigenous African Religions?

Gxg (G²)

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I'm cautiously optimistic about the Black Panther movie, while it's great they're going through with the project, I wonder how it's going to be approached. Will Hollywood water down it's Afrocentric view to suit mainstream [read: White] audiences?
Others seem to be preparing as best as possible to ensure that all things fall into place:






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Gxg (G²);66675031 said:
Others seem to be preparing as best as possible to ensure that all things fall into place:






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Thanks for the info. Gotta say, wasn't too thrilled about the first link comparing Black Panther to Batman. Just kinda implies that Black Panther can't stand on his own (even though he can). But I liked The Atlantic article, for Black superheroes, it's definitely time to expand out. :)

Also this is kind of semi related. Storm has her own series now, but there are rumors circulating that Marvel is planning on pulling the plug due to poor sales. So there's a campaign going on right to try save it.

#SAVESTORM BGN Giveaway!

In Your Face Jam: #SaveStorm - Comic Book Resources
 
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Thanks for the info. Gotta say, wasn't too thrilled about the first link comparing Black Panther to Batman. Just kinda implies that Black Panther can't stand on his own (even though he can). http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=57213
The comparison with Black Panther to Bruce Wayne/Batman was something that bothered me as well. Besides the fact that Bruce does not have super-powers (and does not have the guts to admit his public identity in the same way the Black Panther does does to the world while ruling his nation), their emphasis are completely different. It did seem, as you noted, that they felt Black Panther could not stand on his own - but nonetheless, they are similar in differing respects.



But as it concerns religion, I think that will always be something that many will be slow to admit as a key difference with why Batman and Black Panther are radically different. For Black Panther is willing to represent the concept of being true to spiritual values and letting that shape the way you fight - whereas Batman is concerned with his own individual values and letting them shape him. Black Panther represents the COLLECTIVE mindset of religion shaping the super-hero whereas Batman is highly focused on the individual. Because Black Panther is representative of of the god he serves, he stands out above Batman due to his devotion to what's known as the Panther-God and his loyalty to the god he serves....from a perspective of Aminisim and an African perspective. Serving that specific god was a matter of not walking in fear since fear was what was not respected - as well as not taking ownership:




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Black Panther's concept is similar to Wonder Woman creator William Marston’s original vision of the Amazons as a proto-feminist totalitarian utopia, as Stan Lee and Jack Kirby’s subsequent vision of Wakanda echoes Marston’s ideals of a “loving submission”

As another noted best, "The Black Panther is more than just the embodiment of a warrior cult that’s served as Wakanda’s religious, political and military head since its inception. The Black Panther is the embodiment of the ideals of a people. Anyone who’d dare to make a move on Wakanda must go through him."

But I liked The Atlantic article, for Black superheroes, it's definitely time to expand out. :)
Indeed - and part of that expansion will be based on showing the need for it and its relevance.

On a side note, If you missed it, you may want to go to #19 since there were some excellent presentations on the issue that I thought were noteworthy...

Also this is kind of semi related. Storm has her own series now, but there are rumors circulating that Marvel is planning on pulling the plug due to poor sales. So there's a campaign going on right to try save it.

#SAVESTORM BGN Giveaway!

In Your Face Jam: #SaveStorm - Comic Book Resources
Thank you for letting me know. I know Storm has been big before in leading teams and having her own stories - but that's wild she has her own gig going on. She has always stood out for the ways she has been such a social critique on the world. As she once stated in a few lines (concerning Storm's cultural studies-inspired dialogue from Issue 7 of Black Panther - in light of how Storm is a love interest of Black Panther and more importantly, a catalyst of change in the African continent as the queen of Kenya, seeing how one would be hard pressed to find a comparable X-men episode where Storm plays the role of a Bell Hooks in the Marvel universe. ):
“Castro once claimed that racism was a natural byproduct of capitalism, and that the communist system would naturally eradicate prejudice. Wrong. . . . No ‘ism’ is going to fix the persistence of prejudice . . . We have to acknowledge that the myth of white supremacy continues in the mutant-controlled world. I mean the ideal is still a white person with a human appearance. I haven’t noticed any furry, feathered or scaled beings deliver the news, have you?”

That such words were spoken by a character in a comic book series is a minor cultural achievement; no surprise, then, that certain Africana Studies departments have identified Storm and the Black Panther as the Lacanian “big Others” of a future African Diaspora yet to be.

black-panther-and-storm.jpg
As it concerns what's going on with Storm, that's sad indeed to see the ways that they are actively choosing to end the series. I am not surprised that there is a lot of avoiding the reality of what the series means and I wish others would become more aware of that.
 
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Thank you for letting me know. I know Storm has been big before in leading teams and having her own stories - but that's wild she has her own gig going on. She has always stood out for the ways she has been such a social critique on the world. As she once stated in a few lines (concerning Storm's cultural studies-inspired dialogue from Issue 7 of Black Panther - in light of how Storm is a love interest of Black Panther and more importantly, a catalyst of change in the African continent as the queen of Kenya, seeing how one would be hard pressed to find a comparable X-men episode where Storm plays the role of a Bell Hooks in the Marvel universe. ):


Absolutely. Especially what she means for young girls of color (specifically Black girls). She's always been one of my favorite characters, she was the main reason why I watched X Men The Animated Series. Storm wasn't tokenized, her back story is fascinating and she wasn't some sidekick either. So that's why it's unfortunate to hear what's happening to her.

“Castro once claimed that racism was a natural byproduct of capitalism, and that the communist system would naturally eradicate prejudice. Wrong. . . . No ‘ism’ is going to fix the persistence of prejudice . . . We have to acknowledge that the myth of white supremacy continues in the mutant-controlled world. I mean the ideal is still a white person with a human appearance. I haven’t noticed any furry, feathered or scaled beings deliver the news, have you?”

That such words were spoken by a character in a comic book series is a minor cultural achievement; no surprise, then, that certain Africana Studies departments have identified Storm and the Black Panther as the Lacanian “big Others” of a future African Diaspora yet to be.


That quote is powerful because it also applies to what happens in real-life, too. How Whiteness is often viewed as the default for humanity & complexity. But I won't go into that here as it's another topic and some posters may get offended. :whistle:
 
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Absolutely. Especially what she means for young girls of color (specifically Black girls). She's always been one of my favorite characters, she was the main reason why I watched X Men The Animated Series. Storm wasn't tokenized, her back story is fascinating and she wasn't some sidekick either. So that's why it's unfortunate to hear what's happening to her.
I really enjoyed Storm growing up and what she represented. However, I'd disagree with you on the issue of Storm as she seemed to be the only black mutant character on the series who was prominent. Her backstory - fascinating as it is - was still one that only celebrated her and did not leave room for others to shine as prominent.

That quote is powerful because it also applies to what happens in real-life, too. How Whiteness is often viewed as the default for humanity & complexity. But I won't go into that here as it's another topic and some posters may get offended. :whistle:
Not really seeing how what you said was not on topic, as it concerns the OP, as the subject of African Religions being depicted in comic films/media is connected to the subject since there's a big limitation on what's able to be advocated due to it not showing how humanity is truly diverse.
 
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That quote is powerful because it also applies to what happens in real-life, too. How Whiteness is often viewed as the default for humanity & complexity.
There's actually an excellent article on the issue that was very enjoyable to consider on the issue when it comes to the subject of religion and ethnicity:



 
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Whiteness is often viewed as the default for humanity & complexity.
I'm cautiously optimistic about the Black Panther movie, while it's great they're going through with the project, I wonder how it's going to be approached. Will Hollywood water down it's Afrocentric view to suit mainstream [read: White] audiences?
Interesting perspective that goes along with the quote you shared on - as seen here IN The Black Panther as a Nationalist Superhero / Reading Super Heroes Politically
:[/url]

More importantly than being the first lead superhero the Black Panther is the first character that represent a radical break from the white European superhero archetype. Both War Machine and Falcon, while interesting characters, are members of the US military and are symbols of racial liberalism and US military imperialism. The Black Panther, on the other hand, is not a member of the US military but instead the leader of an anti-colonial African nation that has historically fought to maintain its autonomy......Dittmer in Captain America and the Nationalist Superhero: Metaphor, Narratives, and Geopolitics looks to the Captain America, Captain Britain, Union Jack, Captain Canuck and other nationalist characters as a means of exploring the construction of national identity. His assertion throughout the book is that the nationalist heroes he examines all provide valuable insights into the ways that national myths and meaning are constructed and reinforced. He looks to the ways that national borders are made natural, with the series Excalibur and Alpha Flight, the way that US hegemony is justified through Captain America, and the ways that “alternative histories” and alien invasions all bolster the perception that the current political/social order is the ideal. This phenomenal book offers a unique lens to examine comics but interestingly does not look to explore the Black Panther as a nationalist character.

By looking at the Black Panther as a nationalist superhero we can gain cultural insight into the meaning of “black nationalism” and African decolonization from the perspective of US liberalism. For instance, it is important to note that in Wakanda there is a fusion of science, technology, religion, and magic. Unlike the US heroes who gain their power through science or luck, the Black Panther gains his power through a religious ceremony. It is the magic of Wakanda, combined with the technological advancement of this people that makes the Black Panther an Avenger. In this comic the existence of this alternative system of knowledge, one that is regularly viewed as superior to the Western view, highlights the ways that power (in this case colonial power) not only constructs systems of knowledge but also provides some with a universalizing bent. Even though Wakanda is seen as advanced economically and technologically no one but the Wakandan’s embrace their syncretic form of science/magic and this is because they have not attempted to use their technological and economic power to expand their cultural hegemony. Even though they are not a global power, Wakanda is able to maintain their traditional ways of knowing because of their autonomy from the west. In addition, the Black Panther narrative, inherently ties Black Nationalism and Pan Africanism to anti-imperialist politics. This can be seen through the long historical isolation of Wakanda from European colonizers and by the role that European colonization played in unsettling the political life of Wakanda (it was a Dutch villain that killed T’Chaka in at attempt to open Wakanda up to European corporations). From that point on, a large number of the Black Panthers have been to protect his nation from foreign invaders—American, European, and Alien. Interestingly, one of the central battles that the Black Panther has is fighting against resource colonialism as European powers are constantly trying to gain access to the Vibranium mines of Wakanda.

It is also important to note two unique attributes to the Black Panther that sets him apart from other nationalist superheroes.

First, is the fact that unlike Captain America, Captain Britain, Captain Canuck, or even Sabra (the Israeli nationalist hero), the Black Panther is the only nationalist hero tied to a fictional nation. As Dittmer mentions, one of the primary aspects of the nationalist superhero is to naturalize the concept of nation-states and construct a realist understanding of international foreign policy (where each nation has its leviathan like superhero representing the nation). As such, this critical reading of the Black Panther highlights how to US liberalism Black Nationalism is a utopian project, one that, in order to comprehend needs to be tied to a physical nation. Of course, from the position of the US there is no black nation that represents a hegemonic threat, and as such, the Black Nationalist hero needs to be mapped onto a fictional space. Wakanda serves as an anti-imperialist counter to the US liberalism but one that is simply ideological and nonexistent as a political threat. Secondly, unlike all the other well-known nationalist superheroes, the Black Panther is the only figure that is also the head of state.


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Thanks for the info.
Forgot to mention this earlier as it concerns the film coming up and explained..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx2F9XfPAOg

That said, in the event I forgot to mention it earlier, something about Black Panther I was fascinated by (in regards to the religious side of things) was his bodyguards, the Dora Milaje.

Dora_Milaje_(Earth-616)_from_Black_Panther_Vol_4_17_0001.png


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Historically, they were Inspired by the Dahomey Amazons - from the nation of Dahomey ...and for further historical considerations on that, several modern African countries were derived from former African kingdoms (or empires) located in different places. For when the British Gold Coast gained independence in 1957, for example, it was rechristened Ghana, a name borrowed from the Ghana Empire (830-1235 CE) in what is now Mali and Mauritania - and in 1975, the leaders of Dahomey changed its name to Benin, even though the former Benin Empire (1440–1897 CE) was situated in what is now Nigeria. That said, the Dahomey were known for being fierce warrior units....legendary:)







The Dora Milaje in the Black Panther comics - who again serve as the Black Panther’s bodyguards and are known as “wives in training” because they come from the various tribes of Wakanda (and more specifically, the central city of Wakanda is surrounded by 18 tribes that often war with each other and To bring unity the king would select an exceptional young girl from each tribe to be his potential wife....although it wasn't a harem. Amazing how women are seen with strength in African religion...with some speculating they will be in the latest Avenger's film.

But as it concerns strong women warriors, I have always been glad to see the ways that Black Panther places emphasis on this...but what's even more interesting to me is seeing the way that the themes it evokes go together in history - as the Dora Milaje being based on the Amazons isn't surprising or that far of a stretch since the Amazons came from Africa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahZhq8CXwRs


But again, to see how the Black Panther dared to actually reference historical concepts often suppressed today when it comes to women warriors ( like the Dahomey Amazons) is truly astounding..

 
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Putting this here, Booko, as it seemed the comment was meant for here when ti was placed in another thread (since this is the only one explictly dealing with Hollywood and African culture/religion I can think of) - if you're cool for it..

Cool thread to read - wish I had anything much to add, but I stopped my Conan (and Cerebus) habit years ago when we had kids. Well, darn.

As for Hollywood and the issue of diversity, it seems complex in many ways, but the money backers don't like risk much.

I and plenty of my friends are hoping they do Black Panther and do it right, but we won't exactly hold our breath either. We've seen too many times when they did a lousy job and the movie didn't do well, and then blamed it on "well people just aren't interested in seeing that." Well they might be if it was any good, dude.

I think it would be fascinating to explore a culture that isn't so...US oriented for a change. There's a whole world out there, so why are we ignoring it?

I also don't get why the moguls in Hollywood couldn't think that Wonder Woman doesn't just deserve her own movie and not as a sidekick to Superman.

They sure didn't have a tough time introducing Thor and Iron Man and Cap separately before they joined in the Avengers, amirite?

Then again, DC is just kind of...slow.
 
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I'm cautiously optimistic about the Black Panther movie, while it's great they're going through with the project, I wonder how it's going to be approached. Will Hollywood water down it's Afrocentric view to suit mainstream [read: White] audiences?
One thing that's for certain is that they will ensure it's full of fight scenes - which is something I don't have a problem with so long as the scenes are truly good....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atb36h-ozrA

Of course, hoping that they will show the diplomatic side of King T'Challa as well since he's not simply a warrior - cool as that is. Part of what makes Wakanda so amazing is how much politics involve the entire community rather than the Panther alone

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Let us fervently hope that whoever is doing the fight choreo for a Black Panther movie is not whoever did it for Man of Steel.
What aspect of Man of Steel do you feel would not be beneficial for a Black Panther movie?

And on the issue of fighting, I do hope that it is as stellar as it has been in the comics....












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Gxg (G²);66675264 said:
.....as it concerns religion, I think that will always be something that many will be slow to admit as a key difference with why Batman and Black Panther are radically different. For Black Panther is willing to represent the concept of being true to spiritual values and letting that shape the way you fight - whereas Batman is concerned with his own individual values and letting them shape him. Black Panther represents the COLLECTIVE mindset of religion shaping the super-hero whereas Batman is highly focused on the individual. Because Black Panther is representative of of the god he serves, he stands out above Batman due to his devotion to what's known as the Panther-God and his loyalty to the god he serves....from a perspective of Aminisim and an African perspective. Serving that specific god was a matter of not walking in fear since fear was what was not respected - as well as not taking ownership:





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It just occurred to me that discussing the subject of Indigenous or Tribal religions (when speaking of Black Panther) would be difficult to understand when there is not real awareness of how that looks like practically....and on the issue, I came across this excellent presentation on the matter which I would greatly appreciate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwAGJ6j2C1o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njJylngfi8I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhzkL_58wyM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaSYmnOVXyg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_avWCarHPE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJadF0Adsw4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQCeI5o9Xv4

Again, for anyone interested, I do hope that this helps when it comes to appreciating ways that the comic tries to reflect African culture on differing levels..

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Interesting lectures, Gxg. I've just started into them recently and have a long way to go but this is definitely an area where I know very little.
It is a fascinating thing to study and I have enjoyed going through it thus far. What part are you at now?
 
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Interesting lectures, Gxg. I've just started into them recently and have a long way to go but this is definitely an area where I know very little.
Have you ever heard of Black Panther?
 
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