Black Christians Encouraged but Wary of White Christian Responses to Racial Injustice

[essentialsaltes]

I found this to be a thoughtful article (but didn't like the headline)

Since the death of George Floyd in police custody in May, conservative White Christians have condemned racial injustice in unprecedented ways, with many acknowledging and pledging to fight the persistent scourge of systemic racism.

White Christian leaders have prayed at vigils and marched in protests, damned the officers accused of killing Floyd and recited the slogan Black Lives Matter, often while distancing themselves from the organization of the same name. One evangelical magazine, Christianity Today, called for a church-led reparations project.

But even as they appreciate the scales falling from some White Christians' eyes, some Black Christians remain wary.

 

[dqhall]

I found this to be a thoughtful article (but didn't like the headline)

Since the death of George Floyd in police custody in May, conservative White Christians have condemned racial injustice in unprecedented ways, with many acknowledging and pledging to fight the persistent scourge of systemic racism.

White Christian leaders have prayed at vigils and marched in protests, damned the officers accused of killing Floyd and recited the slogan Black Lives Matter, often while distancing themselves from the organization of the same name. One evangelical magazine, Christianity Today, called for a church-led reparations project.

But even as they appreciate the scales falling from some White Christians' eyes, some Black Christians remain wary.

Some White Christians may be skeptical as they tried to live in a predominately Black neighborhood and suffered persecution from Black racists.

 

[RDKirk]

Some White Christians may be skeptical as they tried to live in a predominately Black neighborhood and suffered persecution from Black racists.

Are they, though? Got any such testimonies?

From our experience as a black family that has spent 30 years in predominantly white churches, what becomes insufferable is that they can't stay away from dipping deeply into American politics.

The last white church we belonged to, Gateway in the Dallas area, is the church that hosted Trump's visit just a few weeks ago...but they made that political bent clear years ago.

I suspect, though, that this may be a problem primarily among Protestants and not so much among Catholics and Eastern Orthodox.

 

[Bobber]

Some White Christians may be skeptical as they tried to live in a predominately Black neighborhood and suffered persecution from Black racists.

White Christians and Black Christians who truly are born again KNOW....THEY KNOW their brothers or sisters of other ethnic groups ARE NOT their problem. The KNOW their true brothers and sisters aren't even those necessarily of their own skin colour or culture but those who are in union in the Spirit as they are In Christ. Matt 12:46

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Some White Christians may be skeptical as they tried to live in a predominately Black neighborhood and suffered persecution from Black racists.

Citation?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Well, the magazine did point out a truth that as not been acknowledged by white Christians in America. From the article:

But Black Christians have been raising alarms about police brutality and systemic racism for decades..

Yes, for decades! But it seems,imho, that either their white sisters and brothers are in denial that it is happening, or that they do not care that it is happening.

 

[Bobber]

Are they, though? Got any such testimonies?

From our experience as a black family that has spent 30 years in predominantly white churches, what becomes insufferable is that they can't stay away from dipping deeply into American politics.

So let me ask you....do you not have any political leanings? If you're a citizen that votes isn't there reasons why you do?

 

[Albion]

Yes, for decades! But it seems,imho, that either their white sisters and brothers are in denial that it is happening, or that they do not care that it is happening.

They do care, but they also have noticed that the heroes of the anti-police movement were not innocent victims who cooperated with the police when confronted.

This raises an important question, quite indep0endent of the race of the person...hundreds of police officers have been injured this year, so it's not just some sort of hypothetical question to ask how the police ought to react to someone who engages them in a fistfight, threatens them with a deadly weapon or, if not that, flees.

Any serious reply could be helpful if understanding is truly the hope.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

They do care, but they also have noticed that the heroes of the anti-police movement were not innocent victims who cooperated with the police when confronted.

So, is this the reason they act like they do not hear and/or believe there is a problem?

 

[essentialsaltes]

They do care, but they also have noticed that the heroes of the anti-police movement were not innocent victims who cooperated with the police when confronted.

For better understanding, does this refer to the George Floyds and Eric Garners? The people killed by police in ways that seem brutal and unlawful? Or do you mean the protestors in the wake of these events?

If the former, surely we can still demand that our police refrain from needless brutality, even if a suspect is guilty of something.

If the latter, you don't need to support BLM or 'antifa' in order to stand against police brutality.

hundreds of police officers have been injured this year, so it's not just some sort of hypothetical question to ask how the police ought to react to someone who engages them in a fistfight, threatens them with a deadly weapon

Of course police can defend themselves, following their rules and training, which can include use of deadly force.

or, if not that, flees.

There is no such thing as self-defense from someone running away from you. Police have rules to follow; unless they suspect the fleeing person is going to go murder someone right now, they aren't allowed to just shoot them in the back. 'Run, run, run as fast as you can, You'll never catch me, I'm the gingerbread [blam blam blam]'.

The rules for self-defense are spelled out by the various police organizations. These aren't additional impositions. These are rules they are supposed to be following. It is incumbent on We The People to see that they are doing their jobs correctly. And not brutalizing We The People.

 

[Albion]

So, is this the reason they act like they do not hear and/or believe there is a problem?

Uncertainty about what is wanted by the maze of different voices claiming to be part of the movement that is speaking out? Yes. And I realize that that can be misunderstood to be an unwillingness to hear or respond.

Bear in mind that the majority of the populace is not in a position to respond to much of what is being demanded. They do not control the cities' budgets, speak for the elected officials, or any of that.

We all know, at least many surveys and polls show it, that most people of all races are in agreement about stopping the sort of thing we witnessed in the George Floyd situation. Also, that it wasn't the first or an isolated incident.

But the forces demanding change are now so varied, that it's not surprising that other people of good will are now not in a position to know what's actually being sought.

 

[RDKirk]

So let me ask you....do you not have any political leanings? If you're a citizen that votes isn't there reasons why you do?

It's not impossible for a church to preach the values of Christ--all of them--without getting into local politics. Jesus repudiated all the political factions of His time.

 

[Bobber]

It's not impossible for a church to preach the values of Christ--all of them--without getting into local politics. Jesus repudiated all the political factions of His time.

But my friend that doesn't answer the question. You've shown reservations towards a church you used to attend for you say they've delved into politics. But wouldn't anyone who votes do that? If you vote aren't you doing it yourself? So to you what should be the perfect balance?

 

[RDKirk]

But my friend that doesn't answer the question. You've shown reservations towards a church you used to attend for you say they've delved into politics. But wouldn't anyone who votes do that? If you vote aren't you doing it yourself? So to you what should be the perfect balance?

How a person votes is not a matter to be insinuated from the pulpit.

 

[dqhall]

Are they, though? Got any such testimonies?

From our experience as a black family that has spent 30 years in predominantly white churches, what becomes insufferable is that they can't stay away from dipping deeply into American politics.

The last white church we belonged to, Gateway in the Dallas area, is the church that hosted Trump's visit just a few weeks ago...but they made that political bent clear years ago.

I suspect, though, that this may be a problem primarily among Protestants and not so much among Catholics and Eastern Orthodox.

I have been to integrated churches. When I attended a meeting of a Black Baptist church it was no longer all Black because I was there. This was when I visited churches as I traveled. I did not try to join that church. I have worked with people of different races. I lived in DC and learned of Black hate crimes against Whites. I also know Blacks have been excluded and impoverished as I grew up in the 60’s and 70’s. I was in Jr. High when M.L. King was assassinated. Two Kennedy’s were also assassinated by hateful men. Now there are Black mayors and Blacks living in big houses in wealthy suburbs. I have seen these things with my own eyes.

Some Assembly of God churches are integrated. William J. Seymour was a charismatic preacher who worked in the Pentecostal movement. He did not exclude on the basis of race. I attended an integrated Seventh Day Adventist Church. I have seen the Salvation Army is partially integrated.

Jesus asked that the good news be spoken to all nations. That means all peoples.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Uncertainty about what is wanted by the maze of differemnt voices claiming to be part of the movement that is speaking out? Yes. And I realize that that can be misunderstood to be an unwillingness to hear or respond.

We all know, at least many surveys and polls show it, that most people of all races are in agreement about stopping the sort of thing we witnessed in the George Floyd situation. Also, that it wasn't the first or an isolated incident.

But the forces demanding change are now so varied, that it's not surprising that other people of good will are now not in a position to know what's actually being sought.

IMHO, For decades, the people of color have been sounding the alarm! It has not just started! It is only because of the shock of the death of George Floyed that whites are beginning to hear the alarm that has been sounding for decades! Let's be honest about it. The "maze of different voices" have been getting louder and louder over the years saying "Can you hear me now???" Listening involves understanding. And understanding requires one to take steps to rectify the situation. But the first step is acknowledging that there is a problem. THAT can be agreed upon, and the conversation can proceed from there.

Bear in mind that the majority of the populace is not in a position to respond to much of what is being demanded. They do not control the cities' budgets, speak for the elected officials, or any of that.

But they elect the officials that control the budgets, cities, etc. The elected officials should speak for the people, ALL of the people, not just a few desirables .

But the forces demanding change are now so varied, that it's not surprising that other people of good will are now not in a position to know what's actually being sought.

THEY are not the problem! The "people of good faith" meaning white people,should be courageous enough to sit down with their counterparts, acknowledge the problem/s,and together, hash out solutions that will benefit ALL in our society. I know you probably don't see, but, put yourself in a black man's shoes just for a day. You will see the problem.

 

[Albion]

Well, you see, I tried to find a way to talk about a problem--and everybody seems to agree that there is a problem of some sort or other needing a solution.

The idea was to go beyond the "You're to blame; no, YOU'RE to blame" kind of exchanges that predominate every time this subject comes up.

I took that chance. It didn't succeed.

 

[FenderTL5]

..what becomes insufferable is that they can't stay away from dipping deeply into American politics... they made that political bent clear years ago..

I suspect, though, that this may be a problem primarily among Protestants and not so much among Catholics and Eastern Orthodox.

I suspect you could be right.

When I made my decision to leave the SBC for Orthodoxy that was part of, albeit a very small part, of my consideration. I never complained but didn't agree with entire worship services built around patriotic themes (usually on July 4th, Veterans Day etc) and Sunday School time being dedicated to the political issue dujour.
That was almost ten years ago and not as extreme as it is today.

Politics is not part of the Liturgy in our parish. People may talk about and participate in political/patriotic endeavors during coffee hour and on their own time but it is not part of the services.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Well, you see, I tried to find a way to talk about a problem--and everybody seems to agree that there is a problem of some sort or other needing a solution.

The idea was to go beyond the "You're to blame; no, YOU'RE to blame" kind of exchanges that predominate every time this subject comes up.

I took that chance. It didn't succeed.

Unfortunately, people's ego get in the way of meaningful dialog. Talking about racial issues is uncomfortable because people tend to take it personally. Also, people need to confront their own attitudes about race that has been (subconsciously) ingrained in them from childhood. Everyone needs to see each other as brothers and sisters (in Christ) with the same hopes and desires of peace and cooperation. Of course there will be bad actors, as we have seen. But the core problem of us vs them, or seeing each other as different can be explored to come to a general consensus .Culturally, people are different. But there is a commonality among all peoples. The conversation has to be had, no matter how uncomfortable it may be. The Declaration of Independence was not written with people of color in mind. But, it needs to apply to ALL.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Contemporary American evangelical fundamentalism is largely an outgrowth of southern culture (although it was neither started nor contained in the south, it did blossom there). Given the long history of the south trying to excuse and/or ignore racial oppression and to whitewash past acts, is it any wonder that the denominations it incubated similarly overlook those issues?