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Black Africans who are indeed in the Bible

Discussion in 'Christian History' started by Lik3, Jun 1, 2013.

  1. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    The Egyptians per se were not black, although the Nubians were (and the Nubians ruled Egypt during the 25th Dynasty). Scholarship is pretty clear on this.

    But since you seem to feel that we're racist, it might be safer to draw this discussion to a close. Have a nice day. :wave:
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2014
  2. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
  3. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    There was actually an excellent book on the issue that was very in-depth on the matter when it came to discussing the history of Ethiopians within the Scriptures and the way God used other blacks - as seen in the book entitled Wade in the River: The Story of the African Christian Faith" by Fr. Paisius Altschul

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    The book goes through examining the entire faith of Africa and its contribution to the world - starting with the Biblical accounts of significant Africans, then early Christianity and going through the Islamic period, pressing past Western slavery, and going into the present era. People who are Black Africans have much to be proud of when it comes to seeing the extensive ways their culture is present in the scriptures....

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  4. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    There's no question but that Negroid peoples from further south penetrated Egypt at times in her long history, but not until rather late and not at the time of Moses and the Hebrews' captivity. For certain, photographs of Egyptians who have lived in recent times prove nothing at all.
     
  5. HannibalFlavius

    HannibalFlavius Well-Known Member

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    Moses married two black women, and the bride of Christ IS BLACK.


    The Bride
    5"I am black but lovely, O daughters of Jerusalem, Like the tents of Kedar, Like the curtains of Solomon. 6"Do not stare at me because I am swarthy, For the sun has burned me. My mother's sons were angry with me; They made me caretaker of the vineyards, But I have not taken care of my own vineyard.…
     
  6. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Awesome quote from The Song of Solomom - the girl in the story is truly fascinating when seeing what she had to deal with. Would be amazing to see what the the girl in Song of Songs looked like, as the ways Solomon described here was truly beautiful. I'd imagine close to this:

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    Beautiful and sunburned....


    Song of Songs 1:5
    Dark am I, yet lovely, daughters of Jerusalem, dark like the tents of Kedar, like the tent curtains of Solomon. Do not stare at me because I am dark, because I am darkened by the sun. My mother’s sons were angry with me and made me take care of the vineyards; my own vineyard I had to neglect.

    Tell me, you whom I love,
    where you graze your flock
    and where you rest your sheep at midday.
    Why should I be like a veiled woman
    beside the flocks of your friends?
    Song of Songs 1:4-6


    When it comes to genetics and how they impact complexion, seeing the arguments can be interesting. In example Some have argued that Abraham was a Chaldean. ..that Isaac married a Chaldean... Jacob married a Chaldean...and they say that the Syrians and Iraqis are modern-day Chaldeans. Many say the Hebrews couldn't of been black because the Chaldeans today are not "black", nor are they "white" (in their view)---with others saying that the Hebrews looked something similar to modern-day Iraqis.

    However, as it stands, there's already debate on the issue of how people evolve in their ethnic looks...as just because a people group looks one way today doesn't mean they always looked like that. There's no evidence at all to verify that the sons of Jacob in any way looked like modern-day Iraqis when the areas they came from had people known to have African-features. If they married people from areas near Iraq, that's different. Throughout history, there've been many variations of Hebrew people in all colors/shapes and sizes, be it Chinese Jews or Indian Jews or Sephardic and many others. They came from people all over the world. Moses married a woman from Cush ( Numbers 12:1-3 ) - to be even more technical, according to Exodus 2-3, it is in Midian—a region in northwestern Arabia*—that Moses meets the woman who was his first wife.... a Midianite woman named Zipporah. And there were many others in the OT who came from countries all over where the complexion was of a dark nature

    The dynamics of racial makeup is very fascinating - seeing that people of darker complexion were more than present in the area since the time of Abraham. Not many people are aware of that reality of how there were
    Negroid peoples
    from multiple directions (be it the East or the South) who came into places like Egypt long before the time of Moses and the Exodus account - even Rameses II (the Pharoah in the time of Moses) was of darker complexion.

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    In Eurocentric schools of thought, the idea has often been ignored unfortunately despite what most modern scholarship has pointed from further south penetrated Egypt at times in her long history - in consistency with the ways that many Egyptians of dark complexion appear ....which consistently is ignored by people who wish to assume the Egyptians did not have black features rather than setting aside the bias and addressing the facts for what they are. And even with others saying that Egyptians today (who are lighter-skinned) are the definition of what ancient Egyptians ALL looked like in the time of Moses - it is fascinating to consider the reality that even the Copt people aren’t indigenous Egyptians since they migrated to Egypt just like the Arabs. All one needs to do is Google
    Genetic variation and population structure of Sudanese populations as seen in National Center for Biotechnology Information

    Ketians (Egyptians) were and always have been African - as they migrated from the South, which meant that they originated in the southern part of Africa...and the Bantu are their ancestral lineage. As another noted wisely:

    According to Jean Francois Champollion ( French archaeologist) who deciphered the Rosette Stone which indicated that ancient Egyptians in their own handwriting stated that they came from the highlands of Ethiopia. People living in the Horn of Africa ( East Africa) do have mid-brown to brown complexions with Caucasoid feathers; much like people from modern day countries of Somali, Ethiopia, and Djibouti. Not all black people are Negroid. Some are Caucasoid, Austroloid, or a half way between both phenotypes. These people may possible mixed with people from the Arabian peninsula. The Copts of Egypt are mixed with people of Greek and other Mid-eastern ancestry and would not be a good example of how the ancient Egyptians looked. The Beji people of southern Egyptian would more closely related to the ancient people of Egypt. Ancient Egyptians civilization was original found by people who traveled from south east of Egypt around (Eritrea/Somalia) who followed the river north and then integrated with nomes of lower Egypt to establish the Kingdom. During later periods of history outside populations called ( hyskos) moved into to Egypt mixing with the indigenous population and becoming a melting pot. Nubians from the south of Egypt and northern Sudan where conscripted into the Egyptians army and culture accompanied with Libyans and other populations from the Levant ( middle east) who varied in skin tones from light to dusky to dark. Due to the continued flow of people from surrounding countries skin complexion varied; but for the most part many of the ancient Egyptians where dark and would be considered black by modern standards. The ancients Egyptians had a 3,000 year history. Greeks and Romans did not conquer Egypt until later part of the dynasty era around 500BC. The Arab invasion took place in 700AD and through migration and replacement change the Egypt population. The original name of Egypt is Khem, Cham or the land of Ham as stated in the bible.




    For reference on some of the scholarship on the matter, one can go here or here:



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    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
  7. Harbingr

    Harbingr Newbie

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    Sampson and Elijah were black.
    Pope Victor was black.

    I don't know about 100% pure African black though. It's likely they had some Egyptian or Middle Eastern in them as well like most everyone in the Bible, at least up until the New Testament- the apostles were eastern-white Jews, as well as Jesus probably. They couldn't tell him apart from the others in Gethsemane.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
  8. Alive_Again

    Alive_Again Resident Alien

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    Although people can make a study from anything in the Word, I find it refreshing in today's world not to really see color. As an American, it is constantly presented to me, even though we're supposed to be letting these things go and just seeing things as a diverse whole.

    It does say that every race and nation are represented in Heaven. That's good enough for me. I'm glad we don't have to have so many of one race represented and not worry about having too many white people there. Whew! It is wearisome to think this way. I like to quote that line from that weird movie "Eating Raul" (I think it was): "It's people!"

    It is common for cultures to depict Jesus as a member of their race. Kind of ridiculous seeing that they were Middle Eastern Jews. I know Jesus was a Jew, but I just see Him for who He is, not as some kind of racial achievement for Jews. I hope nobody reads anything into this other than I look forward to the day when we stop seeing color and we can just be one without emphasizing physical differences. (But people insist on getting offended when you get near the "racial divide".)

    For us,What's important is the inner man of the heart. There's no Jew or Greek in Christ.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014
  9. pshun2404

    pshun2404 Newbie

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    After all what is this reference to "blacks" what are "blacks"? There is only one human race and we are a spectrum of all sorts from the lightest almost white albino (some among the darkest African tribes) and the darkest shades of brown (some among the Caucasoid species of India)...with all shades in between represented through out the world. Only if a racially minded (mostly bigots of the neo-Darwinian order but not without the other victims of their programming) takes one extreme and pits them against another extreme to such differences appear to emerge but appearances are deceiving.

    Let's see? What color was Jesus? A man of Davidic origin who has many shades and ethnicities involved in His genetic past who grew up as an Artisan of wood, an outside job having endured decades in the heat of the sun...not white, not black...probably more like most Arabic peoples
     
  10. AgapeBible

    AgapeBible Member

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    In Egyptian mythology the evil god Set (Seth?) is seen as ugly, he apparently is a white man with pale skin and red hair. Maybe Yosemite Sam or the king in the wizard of Id? I heard Moses' wife was black, but I did not know that the Midianites were black. I thought they had dark, more like olive or brown skin. i thought Moses had 2 wives, and one was Ethiopian, or Cushite. It says Moses' sister Miriam was racist against Moses black wife, and God punished her with leprosy, which turns the skin white. Miriam was quarantined outside the camp for 7 days before God healed her.

    I heard there was an early Christian church that took root in Ethiopia. There are also Coptic Egyptian Christians. North Africa has a lot of Muslims, there are many Muslims taking over Africa.


    Could the Queen of Sheba who visited Solomon have been black? Where is Sheba? I heard a rumor Solomon was in love with her, he tricked her into an affair and they had a son together.


    "Dark and I, but lovely. My mother's sons were angry with me, and made me tend the vineyard." Reminds me of Cinderella. Cinderella story has ancient roots. I wonder, could Song of Solomon have a bit of prophecy about Africans in slavery and racism? Perhaps it is God's love for black people.


    There is the story in Acts about Philip the missionary meeting an Ethiopian eunuch, an ambassador, that worked for Queen Candace of Ethiopia. I think Candace was her title and not her name. I think the name Candace means queen. I knew a black girl named Candace in high school. She was so sweet, we were friends.
     
  11. AgapeBible

    AgapeBible Member

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    This is why I like rainbows. Not only are they beautiful, they represents God's peace. It is light divided into 7 colors. The rainbow colors are bold and bright. We humans have an earthen rainbow of skin. Our skin is earth-colored, white, peach, tan, yellow, red, brown, copper, dark brown, black.
     
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