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Featured Bitcoin, good or bad?

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by Christian Prepper, Jan 18, 2018.

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  1. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    But none of that would infer that nothing else may be used or invented.
    Besides, people used the same principle you are using (deduction, based on what they chose to see) to promote racist doctrines, which fly in the face of Scripture's message. Therefore, I don't see deduction as a good tool to determine what must and what must not be God's will. There needs to be room for disagreement and error when we use deduction, especially when we are attempting to use it to determine God's will. My belief is that if God felt strongly about what we must and must not use for currency, he would have made that clearly known in Scripture.

    What the Lord chose to reveal is vague enough that every generation should be thinking, "He could come back today." This is why I don't agree that the mark of the beast necessarily needs to rely on advanced technology. The way I see it, we could run out of resources, have a mini-cataclysm, and technology could go back hundreds of years, and that generation of Christians will still need to keep watch. Or the evil one could simply use a more old-fashioned approach than we are training ourselves to expect.
     
  2. High Fidelity

    High Fidelity Well-Known Member Supporter

    +7,871
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    Bitcoin is not a stable investment but there are other cryptocurrencies that will have a stabler future.

    I have a $100 in multiple and if they take off then great, if not then it's only a few hundred.
     
  3. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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    I don't think it's all that it's cracked up to be. I would dispute to varying degrees the claims that:

    (1) It's supply is limited. It seems to me the supply of cryptocurrencies is unlimited. There are thousands in existence now. Heck, bitcoin itself can apparently be forked. I fail to see a limit to the number of algorithmic generated series of 0's and 1's.

    (2) It's a store of value. With the volatility it experiences, I find it difficult to believe it's a store of value. Poker chips seem to maintain their value better.

    (3) It's a currency/money. It seems me that virtually everything is still denominated in fiat currency. I can't go into Wal-Mart and spend bitcoin, and for those very few places where I could spend bitcoin, the prices are still denominated in dollars (You won't find a good or service for a fixed price of bitcoin since they are priced relative to dollars or some other local currency). Bitcoin itself is always given it's price relative to dollars rather than a basket of goods and services.

    I also can't use it in the settlement of public debt, private debt or taxes, which means at some point you will have to obtain government fiat money.

    There is another consideration that people forget as well, and that's the concept of Gresham's Law. It seems to me that bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are subject to Gresham's Law (maybe only if it were legal tender though).

    (4) It's anonymous. This one is a little trickier since there is no personally identifiable information on bitcoin wallets per se. But, in order to obtain bitcoin, it must exchange it for something - typically USD (or whatever your currency happens to be). In order to do that, the process becomes much less anonymous, especially if you link it to a card or bank account in your name, or especially if you allowed your IP address to be connected to your wallets. This adds additional transaction costs that increase with the degree of anonymity desired, all without every being able to obtain true anonymity.

    Cryptocurrencies also don't seem to be truly immune from regulation. You would always have to wonder if the servers, computers, or devices you're relying on could be seized, traced, and accessed by authorities in the future should regulatory measures be put into place.

    (5) It's secure. Between the threat of exchange hacks and you either forgetting your bitcoin wallet location, forgetting your password, or having a catastrophic loss of the systems containing your data, it's security seems a bit elusive.


    I think there is potentially one use that could be valuable, and that's if the country where you lived had some sort of capital controls in place and you needed a method to get around them. But this would, or should, probably only serve as a temporary rescue considering the risks.
     
  4. Brent W

    Brent W Tech Admin Staff Member Site Advisor

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    Sounds like its not for you right now. Its new technology (9 years old) that is looking at change the way money works. In 9 years it challenged and changed the way financial institutions think and work.

    Most of the people attacking it don't follow its development or they only look at it for what it is now and then assume it will not improve.
     
  5. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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    Ok. Best of luck.
     
  6. Zatek

    Zatek Active Member

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    1. Oh no. Bitcoin is increasing in value. Better not invest in something so unstable. Wouldn't want to accidentally make any money...

    2. So you're a mind reader now? Do tell how you know the motivations of people who own bitcoin.

    3. The algorithm solving is a security mechanism to prevent any one group from creating false transactions. The reward is a transaction fee just like credit cards or paypal or anyone else charges for a service.

    4. The mark of the beast is sin. Unless there's a secret 11th commandment about crypto currency, then has nothing to do with payment systems. People throughout time have always struggled with the same moral issues, idolatry, theft, greed, murder, adultery, selfish. Having a commodity backed currency has absolutely nothing to do with individual obedience to God, though you could make a case that a nation should.
     
  7. Brent W

    Brent W Tech Admin Staff Member Site Advisor

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    I don't need luck. I don't have my life savings in Bitcoin. It is a fascinating technology that will have an impact and I have enjoyed learning as much as I have about it.
     
  8. Douger

    Douger Veteran

    +795
    Christian
    I really like the idea of blockchain and using cryptos to make secure payments with no fees anywhere in the world.
    In practice however, it doesn't seem to be there yet. All of the crypto currencies are incredibly volatile and some suffer from slow payment processing time which could change the value of a payment drastically from the time sent to the time recieved.
    I think the problem is that these crypto currencies have turned into a get rich quick ponzi scheme where millions of people are just playing with them to make money.
    I know how to use my money in more traditional ways to earn money, so I'm sitting out the casino.
     
  9. Almost there

    Almost there Well-Known Member

    +1,134
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    I'm starting my own. I'm going to call it "Tulipcoin".

    The cool thing about these fake currencies is the blockchain. But it can be applied to real money too.

    The funny thing is that a lot of us see modern money as fiat currency anyway. But it's backed by the government behind it so that if it fails, the currency failing is the least of your problems. Bitcoin doesn't even have that. It survives solely on the "greater fool" theory.
     
  10. Brent W

    Brent W Tech Admin Staff Member Site Advisor

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    Right now Bitcoin is helping people in the exact predicament you stated, where the government has printed so much money that the backed currency has failed.
     
  11. RadiantGrace

    RadiantGrace Member

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    All things have a value based on opinion. If everyone stopped caring about diamonds, they'd have no value. Anyone that thinks gold or silver are good investments have been fooled by ads played on right wing media. You buy them at certain times and sell them at certain times. There is a reason they want you to buy their gold, they are wanting to get rid of it, not secure your future.

    Bitcoin is used for money laundering and to buy and sell illegal goods. It is also used in countries where the government and currency are unstable. What we think about is does not matter. It is an unregulated currency designed to be unregulated. The only thing countries can do is outlaw its use.
     
  12. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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    Always think it's funny when people are selling gold to help you safeguard against financial calamity.....but they always seem to exchange the gold for dollars.
     
  13. Christian Prepper

    Christian Prepper New Member

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    That's because we have been fooled into believing that fiat money has value and we can only transact in those fiat dollars. Dollars used to be backed by gold, but now by nothing but debt and the promise to repay that debt by future taxpayers. Until a new system that is honest is implemented, we are forced to convert gold, silver, or cryptocurrencies to fiat dollars if we are going to spend them. The hope of those who buy and sell gold is that the new honest system in the future will again be backed by gold and silver. There is a company called Goldmoney that uses a debit card tied to gold to transact business which combines a commodity to an electronic means to transact.
     
  14. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Polymath

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    I don't know that anyone's been fooled into such a thing. I think it evolved as a matter of convenience more than anything else.

    And in those days what are gold and silver "backed" by? The belief that it's worth more than just being a pretty rock. I vote we all ought to "go back" to shell money as our commodity money.

    "Implemented"....you mean by force or fiat?

    Not really. You can freely exchange whatever you want. You just have to convince someone to trade their goods or services for your rocks or digits. Nobody is stopping this. It seems that people largely just don't want to trade goods and services for those things.

    I don't know what you mean by "honest." Gold and silver was manipulated by central authorities as well - it's not like they're immune from intervention.

    But you aren't really trading gold for goods and services. You're trading gold for dollars, and then trading for goods and services.
     
  15. Christian Prepper

    Christian Prepper New Member

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    The role of money is not to profit from it continually increasing in value, but rather to provide a stable means of accounting when transactions occur. Something can not act as money if it is unstable. Bitcoin at present can be an investment, but it can't function as money. When taxi drivers and the kid next door is advocating something and they think that it can't fail, history has shown that the top is near. Look on youtube to see how many "kids next door" are pumping cryptocurrencies. The more that buy in, the higher it goes. They're not believers in honest money, but rather they're dreaming about getting rich. The mark of the beast is not sin, if that were so, then we would all have it, since all have sinned. It is an identifying mark implemented by the antichrist that is forced on those who will participate in the buying and selling of goods in the last days, Revelation 13:16-18.
     
  16. Unix

    Unix Hebr incl Sirach&epigraph, Hermeneut,Ptolemy,Samar Supporter

    +69
    Anglican
    Single
    I have to use the World's one strongest (EDIT2: Bitcoin) and one most devalued currencies, Weekly, to me more actual value is welcome! I have to understand the fluctuation of all the few currencies I ever deal with. In addition to this I have to keep an eye on at least £ and US$, sometimes AUD, JPY and PLN too. Not that much € but of course it's the biggest currency in the region EDIT: Next Week I'll be dealing in € as a one-time occasion), EDIT2: Instead of € I dealt in CHF (Yesterday March 3.). And € is an easy one as it doesn't seem to fluctuate so I don't continuously check it.
    Actually I might as well think everything in €, that would be feasible and I could compare everything in a way which would be somewhat consistent over longer periods of time, even so I don't do that and it's not necessary. I don't need to be able to compare easily and fathom, everything in life, not even things occuring during the period of one and the same Month.
    Different things in life are so different aspects. They don't need to be constantly related. And as I can fathom the quantity I get rid of compared to how much I get into my finances, I can balance my finances. And I keep an overview of the short perspective because I usually finance one thing at a time, specifically with the amount needed.
    So I choose to handle the currencies that are used, which I benefit from or are used in the markets where my business or purchase opportunities have spread, and that I can either deal with in a way which is beneficial for me for use, for opening up other people's work opportunities in Asia, or count on increasing in value.
    I'm indifferent to whether each of these currencies is easy to convert, easy to use in many places, or is available in my own hands. As long as I'm in control I'm fine, that's my main concern. (And I am because I know exactly what I've gotten into plus have high security.) I'm in control mostly because I've put thought into things and also usually my exact choices at a fine granularity of detail.
    Accidents happen more often to others, today mum couldn't find her wallet and had to as a precaution close all her cards. I would not let that happen to me. Oh, and I only have one card, and during my entire life I've had a card for altogether only little more than a decade, and I've almost never had two cards at one and the same time (it was a very long time ago briefly) - I don't understand those who have multiple.
    The larger the banknote or coin (zeros with next to no value or zeros after a figure as value for one full unit of a currency), the larger the pile of paper in proportion to local standards and US$ the more velocity in dealings. But I'm niether into other cryptos nor metals:
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  17. gideon123

    gideon123 Humble Servant of God

    +562
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    Married
    Clearly bitcoin is highly speculative. The wisest policy with speculative investments - DON'T get involved unless you can afford to lose big.

    One thing about bitcoin. With the value now hovering below $7000, if this value drops further - into the $5000-$6000 range - then some bitcoin miners might become unprofitable. i.e. they might go out of business. And if miners stop producing, will the public keep buying, or lose confidence altogether? These are big unknowns.

    The best advice about MONEY comes from Jesus Christ! Who else?

    Please read: LUKE 16:1-8 to see that advice.

    Absolutely unbeatable advice for people who spend only a limited time on this Earth - and that's all of us!
     
  18. ValueOfLiving

    ValueOfLiving We need happy world!

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    The thing is that how you spend your money. And it doesn't matter what kind of currency is it, either paper money or digital. Many people know a little bit about crypto, so a good guide for bitcoin https://bitcoinbestbuy.com/quick-guide/ Time will show us advances of this techology.
     
  19. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +10,857
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    I think its shady. My partner was the victim of Russian hackers demanding bitcoin. Bitcoin is the perfect currency for the criminal element to work with.
     
  20. Brent W

    Brent W Tech Admin Staff Member Site Advisor

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    So is cash but we aren't banning that.
     
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