Birthdays and the Bible

Not David

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Traditions of men. (plural)

So - if you care to prove where it is written that I will go to hell for refusing to carry a tree into my house or celebrate the birth of our Savior the same as western society does I'll listen

And if you want to speak against those who believe it's forbidden to celebrate Christmas ill stand with you

But I will not sit and let you say that those who DONT celebrate Christmas or birthdays are not Christian.. because I'm Christian too; a Baptist not a JW..
Can you show me when I said that people who don't celebrate Christmas or birthdays are not Christians?
Can you also show me where I say that you would go to hell if you don't have a Christmas tree?
I think that people who don't want others to celebrate Christmas might have that idea, otherwise, they wouldn't make folks feel uncomfortable for celebrating it.
Also, I don't believe following traditions of men will lead folks to hell, since I believe people who follow the Bible only are Christians.
 
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Archivist

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Isn't only October 2nd. Isn't it still too early to have the Christmas debate? Shouldn't the Halloween debate come first? It's way too early in the year to try to get into or out of the Christmas spirit.
Oh come on...the stores are already putting out their Christmas displays. :wave:
 
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Not David

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It’s normal on these sites for folks to believe they know what Sola Scriptura means. You are obviously promoting a fallacious version.
I am not promoting any fallacious idea, you can go to the thread "Christmas" and see how people say that kind of stuff. I won't mention names because I think it is against the rules.
 
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prodromos

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Of course, it is religious, you are celebrating the moment of the Incarnation.
Actually, the moment of the Incarnation is celebrated on the feast day of the Annunciation of Mary :)
 
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Hazelelponi

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Can you show me when I said that people who don't celebrate Christmas or birthdays are not Christians?

Your post here:

Not even when I was evangelical that idea came to my mind. I always associated it with JWs.

JW's aren't Christian.

This thread is a witch hunt looking for them, was a statement or claim made in this thread that you did not refute.

What I said is based on your belief that only non Christians refuse to celebrate Christmas, and your intention behind the creation of this thread.

Just so you know, traditionally Quakers and Puritans never did celebrate Christmas and that bled into the Baptist faith somewhat in America and still holds to this day in some, more remote, parts of the United States.

In Boston from 1659 - 1681 Christmas celebration of all manner was banned..

So no.. it's not only nonChristians, many Christians used to hold, and some still do, to a tradition of not celebrating Christmas.

The Surprising Truth: Christians Once Banned Christmas
 
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Hazelelponi

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I am not promoting any fallacious idea, you can go to the thread "Christmas" and see how people say that kind of stuff. I won't mention names because I think it is against the rules.

My goodness on this forum I find myself daily shocked at the amount of what I see as heresy....it's left me in tears for my Lord more than once.

But here's the thing. We can either refute what we see as incorrect teaching and speak to each other with the loving kindness of Christ and share with one another Scripture - or we can fight and argue and bicker and quarrel..

Which do you prefer?

Which would Jesus prefer?

This thread? Where do you think this fits in?
 
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Hazelelponi

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Also, I don't believe following traditions of men will lead folks to hell, since I believe people who follow the Bible only are Christians.

I disagree with you on this topic, but this is outside the scope of this thread.

Islam derived largely from Gnostic texts and Hebrew traditions.

We can all agree that those are traditions of men - as opposed to traditions of God, which will send the follower of them to hell.

Same with the Pharisees. They followed the traditions of their father's, which Jesus put on par with being downright satanic, as they missed out on recognizing their Saviour when He arrived because of it.

The later scenario is what the majority of Christians are most in danger of; allowing our own traditions and ideas to take the place of the truth, and going astray because of it.

So yes, we should guard against what we are putting on par with scripture. We must constantly ward against putting our own thoughts and ideas on par with Gods, or we do actually risk hellfire.

We are told in scripture to work out our salvation, this is an active thing.. we must stay in prayer, check ourselves against scripture periodically and make sure we are still on the course God set for us. If we become too confident in our own ability we will make mistakes, some of them could put our very salvation at risk.
 
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Not David

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Your post here:



JW's aren't Christian.

This thread is a witch hunt looking for them, was a statement or claim made in this thread that you did not refute.

What I said is based on your belief that only non Christians refuse to celebrate Christmas, and your intention behind the creation of this thread.

Just so you know, traditionally Quakers and Puritans never did celebrate Christmas and that bled into the Baptist faith somewhat in America and still holds to this day in some, more remote, parts of the United States.

In Boston from 1659 - 1681 Christmas celebration of all manner was banned..

So no.. it's not only nonChristians, many Christians used to hold, and some still do, to a tradition of not celebrating Christmas.

The Surprising Truth: Christians Once Banned Christmas
1. What I said is that the idea of Christians not celebrating Christmas was new to me, I said I only knew JWs didn't celebrate it when I was an Evangelical.
2. Using the Puritans as an example is a wrong idea since they are known for their pietism and legalism. And the Quakers don't even have baptism and Communion, so it is a really extreme example.
 
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gordonhooker

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There are some people who say celebrating the day of the Incarnation is pagan and that the Bible didn't say to celebrate it so it's wrong to do it.

As a Franciscan the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ is one of our major festivals. As a matter of fact it was St. Francis of Assisi that celebrated Christmas with the first live Nativity scene in a cave in Greccio, Italy in 1223.

Those who preach that it is sinful to celebrate new life whether it be the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ or our own children are miserable judgemental people who were originally to mean to waste coal by putting it in their children's stocking at Christmas time.
 
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Not David

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I disagree with you on this topic, but this is outside the scope of this thread.

Islam derived largely from Gnostic texts and Hebrew traditions.

We can all agree that those are traditions of men - as opposed to traditions of God, which will send the follower of them to hell.

Same with the Pharisees. They followed the traditions of their father's, which Jesus put on par with being downright satanic, as they missed out on recognizing their Saviour when He arrived because of it.

The later scenario is what the majority of Christians are most in danger of; allowing our own traditions and ideas to take the place of the truth, and going astray because of it.

So yes, we should guard against what we are putting on par with scripture. We must constantly ward against putting our own thoughts and ideas on par with Gods, or we do actually risk hellfire.

We are told in scripture to work out our salvation, this is an active thing.. we must stay in prayer, check ourselves against scripture periodically and make sure we are still on the course God set for us. If we become too confident in our own ability we will make mistakes, some of them could put our very salvation at risk.
You say the traditions of men are hellfire bounding. So if you believe Christmas is a Tradition of Men, is it sinful to celebrate it?
 
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Hazelelponi

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You say the traditions of men are hellfire bounding. So if you believe Christmas is a Tradition of Men, is it sinful to celebrate it?

I didn't say celebrating Christmas was bounding a person to hell - I specifically said my answer to that portion of your post was OUTSIDE the scope of the thread (and was also why I answered that portion of your post in a completely separate post)

I said we should always be on guard concerning manmade traditions because they could be or become traditions that would put our salvation at risk. We should always check our beliefs, and our actions periodically, against scripture to make sure we aren't adding to scripture unjustly..
 
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Phil 1:21

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Hazelelponi

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1. What I said is that the idea of Christians not celebrating Christmas was new to me, I said I only knew JWs didn't celebrate it when I was an Evangelical.
2. Using the Puritans as an example is a wrong idea since they are known for their pietism and legalism. And the Quakers don't even have baptism and Communion, so it is a really extreme example.

I would like to point out, that accusations of Puritians being hyper legalistic was an attack by the church of England to dimish their growing influence and not anything based in reality..

https://www.history.com/topics/colonial-america/puritanism

So you know, Puritians exist today in very large denominations. Presbyterians is one.. Puritans have likely been the most influential group on the founding (and values) in the U.S.
 
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This is a question for those who believe everything has to come from the Bible: Why do you celebrate birthdays if those are also celebrated by pagan cultures and the few references to a birthday celebration are about heathens?

Hosea 7:5 Good News Translation (GNT)
5 On the day of the king's celebration they made the king and his officials drunk and foolish with wine.

Job 1 New International Version (NIV)
Prologue
1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. 2 He had seven sons and three daughters, 3 and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.

4 His sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular custom.

"
Biblical References.

A close study of the Biblical text shows that the Bible is not altogether wanting in references to the subject; for, while it lacks positive accounts, it contains passages from which it may be inferred that the custom of remembering birthday anniversaries was not wholly unknown among the Jews. "The day of our king" (Hosea vii. 5), on which the princes made the king sick with bottles of wine, and the king himself "stretched out his hand with scorners," alludes more probably to a birthday festival than to a solemn occasion, such as the anniversary of his installation, which would have been observed with more decorum (see Josephus, "Ant." xv. 9, § 6).

Birthdays might not have been celebrated by the common people with great solemnity, yet they did not pass wholly unnoticed, and were remembered by congratulations, as in modern times. Jeremiah not only cursed the day of his birth, but wished that it should not be blessed (Jer. xx. 14), as though such had been the custom.

It is said of Job, "and he cursed his day" (Job iii. 1). The emphatic and determining expression "his day" implies the idea that he, like everybody else, had a certain day of the year singled out for a certain purpose, which we learn further was the anniversary of his birth.

Weaning on Second Birthday.
The second or third birthday of a child whose coming into the world was very much desired by his parents was usually made the occasion of a feast, because the child was then weaned, and had consequently passed the dangerous and uncertain stage of infancy. Abraham made a great feast on the day Isaac was weaned (Gen. xxi. 8). This occurred, according to Rashi, at the expiration of twenty-four months. Bishop Ely ("Holy Bible Com." l.c. on the passage) says: "By comparing I Sam. it would seem that this was very probably a religious feast." Hannah postponed the yearly family feast at Shiloh until she had weaned Samuel, in order to celebrate his birthday at the same time (I Sam. i. 23, 24). According to Rashi and Midr. R. Samuel, l.c., this also occurred at the end of twenty-four months. Yet from II Chron. xxxi. 16 it may be inferred that Samuel was weaned at the end of his third year; for only from that age were children admitted to the service of the Temple."BIRTHDAY - JewishEncyclopedia.com
 
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This is a question for those who believe everything has to come from the Bible: Why do you celebrate birthdays if those are also celebrated by pagan cultures and the few references to a birthday celebration are about heathens?
God celebrated Jesus birth with an angel anouncement and huge celebration in the sky. it was kinda a big deal to God so i have no problem celebrating birthdays as well.
 
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