Bill Weise (23 Minutes in Hell). Is this man a fraud?

fearingdeath

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Last night, the church that I attend had a guest speaker. His name was Bill Weise, and he seemed pretty convincing. However, I was still left with mix feelings. I heard him cite well known sources such as Strong's concordance and Matthew Henry, along with some reasonable sounding scripture verses. Do you believe this man's story coincides with scripture? Or is he phony? The only things that I can currently agree with is just simply the concept of not keeping the topic of hell so taboo, considering it's a real place. I feel that Christians tend to preach the "Jesus loves you" side so much that people end up reading about the suffering and the tragedy in the bible making it feel exaggerated rather than there being that balance of truths, or sides of the story. I'm rather new to scripture. I've started the new testament 3-4 months ago and finished it and read the 9 books out of the old, and a glance at a few other books. I'm not that strong in scripture, so I'm trying, and that's why I look to other sources for truth.

Here is one article I found claiming the man is a fraud:
jcmasters7.blogspot.com/2008/01/why-i-dont-believe-bill-wiese-went-to.html said:
Occasionally, my research for my upcoming book, "What the Hell? Simple Answers to Life's Most Burning Questions", takes me to the testimonies and personal experiences of others regarding Hell.
Recently, I came across the book, "23 Minutes In Hell", by Bill Wiese. Now, I don't know Bill Wiese and I have nothing against the man. In fact, as a fellow Christian, I am overjoyed that he is seeking to spread the gospel in his own way. However, after reading his book, cover to cover, I was left thinking that either the man was deceived, or was intentionally pushing an agenda. Not knowing him, as I said, I dare not conjecture which.

The book speaks of him somehow being catapulted into a Dante's Inferno type of Hell while, presumably, asleep in his bed. Now, if you are not familiar with Dante's Inferno, it is a part of a larger poem written by a man named Dante Alighieri in the 14th century which greatly influenced the Church's perception of Hell. Inferno, of course, was a fictitious poem, not having anything to do with Biblical Scripture, but was more about Dante's political angst against some of his enemies at the time.

Wiese borrows a significant amount of the descriptors in Inferno in his alleged trip to Hell. I don't fault him for that, as it is the meat and drink of modern Christianity, however wrong it may be.

There are, however, some very strange inconsistencies in Wiese's story which require the observant reader to take notice. I will address them individually.

1. He claims to have gone to bed at Midnight on 23 NOV 1998 and was "catapulted out of my bed into the very pit of hell." (p. 2) So, by his own testimony, he was in bed at the time of his "departure" to hell, he says, at 3:00 am. However, his wife, Annette, whom he appropriately and tenderly describes in his book, says this on p. 46: "I woke up to screams coming from down the hallway. My first reaction was to look to my right to see if Bill was there beside me in bed. He wasn't." So, the million dollar question is, how did Bill get from being in his bed to laying on the floor several rooms away if he was in Hell the whole time, with no way to control his body in the meantime?

2. Annette continues on with this: "I turned to my left and looked at the digital clock, and noticed that it was 3:23 a.m. I got out of bed and WALKED down the hallway to the living room where I found Bill in a fetal position with his hands grasping at the sides of his head. His breathing was erratic, and he was screaming, "I feel like I'm going to die!" I thought he was having a heart attack." - Emphasis mine. I don't know about you, but if someone *I* loved was in a fetal position on the floor, and their screams woke me up, I would RUN, not walk to wherever they were. Her testimony does not match what a prudent person would do under those circumstances, and the rest of her story is similarly unbelievable. She didn't call 911 when she believed he was having a heart attack, even when he was screaming the entire time she was praying over him. No woman I have spoken to, even Christian ones, has agreed that they would have done the same under similar circumstances, knowing what Annette knew at the time she had awoken.

3. He claimed several times during the book, that he was unable to think of the Lord during his time in Hell because Jesus Himself prevented it. (p. 37) There are two problems with that. First, how would he know that the demons in his cell were blaspheming against a God he didn't know? (p. 4) Second, in his alleged encounter with Jesus, all Jesus said was, "I kept it from you" but did not otherwise give an explanation. Wiese offered an explanation, but that didn't come from Jesus.

4. Upon arrival to his cell, initially, Wiese said he could not stand due to an inexplicable weakness, which apparently never got better. (p. 2) However, after getting soundly whupped on by 2 of his 4 giant demon captors, somehow, with his chest ripped open and in the new found pitch blackness, he was able to stand up and walk away. He offered no explanation how he somehow "adjusted" to his predicament and got stronger, even as his circumstances got much, much worse.

5. After escaping his cell and demonic tormentors, he said he was taken back there to get roughed up again, prone on the floor. Then, all of a sudden, he was standing next to the pit of fire 10 miles away without any explanation as to how he was carried such a vast distance instantaneously, or how he managed to stand up after being nearly drawn and quartered. (p. 14)

6. During his encounter with Jesus, he claimed that he arose from the bottom of the cavern and was rising in the air. Then suddenly Jesus appeared, and he fell to His feet. How is that possible when both are floating in the air? What could he have fallen on?

7. His testimony, indeed the title of the book, indicates that he had been in Hell proper for 23 minutes, but clearly that couldn't be the case because he claimed that Jesus took him out of Hell and into outer space, and then back to his home. That time between his departure from Hell and his arrival at home clearly would have eaten into his 23 minutes.

8. His "abduction" at 3:00 am - Now this may picking nits, but why would Jesus take Bill at the tail end of what is referred to as the "Witching Hour"?

9. Finally, and this is perhaps the most damning (pardon the pun) to his story, but Scripture clearly states that folks don't go to Hell and return back to the earth. In fact, according to the Lazarus and the rich man parable, it is strictly forbidden because nobody would believe the person anyway. Jesus ABSOLUTELY would not violate His own Word. And for Wiese to have actually gone to Hell and come back would contradict God's Word. This beats even the previously mentioned contradictions in Wiese's story.

So, that leaves us with the nagging question, why would Wiese experience this, if he experienced it at all? Bear in mind that Wiese is a professed Christian since 1970 and has had 28 years to learn the Bible and Hell mythology as it pertains to Christianity today - prior to this event. I don't think he hallucinated it, but he may have dreamed it. And he could have just made it up.

If he dreamed it, then he clearly was being deceived. I have no clue why he would make it up, other than to add more validity to the Hell scare tactics that have produced recalcitrant and often backsliding pseudo-converts througout the ages.

Does this mean that his book is entirely bad? No, not really. He does make some standard Christian points that Jesus, not our own "goodness" or good works, is the way to Heaven. That's the gospel in a nutshell, and thankfully Wiese does not waver from that point at any time. Does he use a substantial portion of his biblical references inappropriately or out of context. Yes, and that's a very pervasive scourge in modern Christian writings that is incredibly annoying, not to mention dangerous.

All that being said, I believe Bill Wiese to be an earnest Christian man who is doing what he can to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to others, in his own way. Do I believe his story? Absolutely not...it's inconsistent as well as being unbiblical. But I, in no way doubt his faithfulness to Jesus or his commitment to spreading the Gospel.

I will email him to see if he wants to address any of the points I made, or to clarify areas of confusion on my part, and if he deigns to answer, I will put it here for all to see.

May the Peace and Love of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you always,


By JC Masters

__________________✟✞✟__________________​
 
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The Word Hell was created in the year 705. This was in Germany and it was used for a hidden place. It was later in 723 taken across the English Channel to Angles Land as England did not exist at this time. It was called Hell and meant a hidden place. People in Europe placed their vegitables in Hell to preserve them thru the winter for the spring. Imagine Hell was use to preserve life.
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Michaelismyname

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re-that's why I look to other sources for truth.

so you take the book that is considered as the greatest written authority on truth
then you look elsewhere for truth? .. did you happen to read the part in it where it declares (Jesus himself speaking) that HE is the truth ?
i advice you to go to the lord Jesus and ask him to show you the truth on maters of heaven and hell - on matters of anything in the bible .

if you want the truth - go to the author and ask .
---
as for Jc MAsters - he should take care - every single question he asks (ALL CONJECTURE which he says he didn't want to do - then DOES. )- could be applied to the entire book of revelation - which makes his line of questioning absurd .

how did John see the lord? how did he then see the new Jerusalem? how then did he suddenly see the angel standing on the seas? ,how the did he suddenly get whisked away to see the throne room .. etc

you see .. a load of guff .

the difference between a testimony and a naysayer is this
-A person testifies to what they saw heard touched tasted experienced .

the hearer is under no obligation to believe the testimony but that neither confirms nor refutes the testimony .

- the naysayer , is just a person waffling on about some one else's testimony . having not seen touched tasted or experienced what the person testifies of, makes EVERYTHING the naysayer has to say- driveling conjecture with no substance .

-----------------------
(by the way - why do you call yourself "fearingdeath" ? death has no victory, no sting, - for to live is necessary but to die (in Christ ) is gain...)paraphrased.
 
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i wouldnt reject testimonies like this automatically considering there are numerous accounts of people who have claimed to have went to hell and come back.

it's crucial to remember what the prophet jeremiah said concerning these things however.

"Let the prophet who has a dream tell the dream, but let him who has my word speak my word faithfully. What has straw in common with wheat? declares the Lord."

so basically dreams and visions are straw but the word of God is wheat.
 
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fearingdeath

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re-that's why I look to other sources for truth.

so you take the book that is considered as the greatest written authority on truth
then you look elsewhere for truth? .. did you happen to read the part in it where it declares (Jesus himself speaking) that HE is the truth ?
i advice you to go to the lord Jesus and ask him to show you the truth on maters of heaven and hell - on matters of anything in the bible .

if you want the truth - go to the author and ask .
---
as for Jc MAsters - he should take care - every single question he asks (ALL CONJECTURE which he says he didn't want to do - then DOES. )- could be applied to the entire book of revelation - which makes his line of questioning absurd .

how did John see the lord? how did he then see the new Jerusalem? how then did he suddenly see the angel standing on the seas? ,how the did he suddenly get whisked away to see the throne room .. etc

you see .. a load of guff .

the difference between a testimony and a naysayer is this
-A person testifies to what they saw heard touched tasted experienced .

the hearer is under no obligation to believe the testimony but that neither confirms nor refutes the testimony .

- the naysayer , is just a person waffling on about some one else's testimony . having not seen touched tasted or experienced what the person testifies of, makes EVERYTHING the naysayer has to say- driveling conjecture with no substance .

-----------------------
(by the way - why do you call yourself "fearingdeath" ? death has no victory, no sting, - for to live is necessary but to die (in Christ ) is gain...)paraphrased.

First of all, I'm not completely done reading the bible. I don't know many verses or stories off hand that I could apply. So I look to other christian sources that have read the bible. No one's going to come to know everything about the bible. Why can't God show truth through other sources. I wouldn't have learned what sheol meant if I didn't look at other sources. I don't put my trust completely and solely in to other sources. Just like going to church, and listening to what they tell you. That's a source of information as well.

Anyone can say they went to hell and came back, and then cherry pick verses and say it matches.

For example he claims that sheol in the bible means hell, and quoted some verses from Job.

Job 14:13 says I wish you would hide me in Sheol and keep me hidden there until your anger cools. Set a specific time for me when you will remember me.

So is God going to let someone take refuge in hell? Sheol in some verses is just simply translated to "grave".

J.C Master's questions aren't just "how did he see?" He showed some inconsistencies such as him standing up right after he says he was in hell and couldn't move and was laying on the ground. Also he points out it happens at 3 am. 3 am is witching hour, an infamous time that represents demons, and the hands on the clock represent an upside down cross at that time. So what if this was a demonic experience---2 cor 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
 
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Michaelismyname

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First of all, I'm not completely done reading the bible. I don't know many verses or stories off hand that I could apply. So I look to other christian sources that have read the bible. No one's going to come to know everything about the bible. Why can't God show truth through other sources. I wouldn't have learned what sheol meant if I didn't look at other sources. I don't put my trust completely and solely in to other sources. Just like going to church, and listening to what they tell you. That's a source of information as well.

Anyone can say they went to hell and came back, and then cherry pick verses and say it matches.

For example he claims that sheol in the bible means hell, and quoted some verses from Job.

Job 14:13 says I wish you would hide me in Sheol and keep me hidden there until your anger cools. Set a specific time for me when you will remember me.

So is God going to let someone take refuge in hell? Sheol in some verses is just simply translated to "grave".

J.C Master's questions aren't just "how did he see?" He showed some inconsistencies such as him standing up right after he says he was in hell and couldn't move and was laying on the ground. Also he points out it happens at 3 am. 3 am is witching hour, an infamous time that represents demons, and the hands on the clock represent an upside down cross at that time. So what if this was a demonic experience---2 cor 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

so your saying you don't believe in hell fire . is that what this is about ?
 
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fearingdeath

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so your saying you don't believe in hell fire . is that what this is about ?

No. I'm saying I don't believe these people that are falling into church.

At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. Matt 24:23
 
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Inhiskingdom

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Last night, the church that I attend had a guest speaker. His name was Bill Weise, and he seemed pretty convincing. However, I was still left with mix feelings. I heard him cite well known sources such as Strong's concordance and Matthew Henry, along with some reasonable sounding scripture verses. Do you believe this man's story coincides with scripture? Or is he phony? The only things that I can currently agree with is just simply the concept of not keeping the topic of hell so taboo, considering it's a real place. I feel that Christians tend to preach the "Jesus loves you" side so much that people end up reading about the suffering and the tragedy in the bible making it feel exaggerated rather than there being that balance of truths, or sides of the story. I'm rather new to scripture. I've started the new testament 3-4 months ago and finished it and read the 9 books out of the old, and a glance at a few other books. I'm not that strong in scripture, so I'm trying, and that's why I look to other sources for truth.

Here is one article I found claiming the man is a fraud:

__________________✟✞✟__________________​

Hi, welcome. It is so great that you are searching the scriptures for the truth. I pray that you always try to keep an open mind when reading the scritpures and let the spirit lead and guide you into all Truth. However I would not put my faith in no man's teachings, for "let God be true, but every man a liar"(Rom3:4).

If you truly are wanting to grow and learn in the spirit then all you need is patience and the spirit of Christ(truth). There are many who would have you believe their teachings and follow them, but please do as John teaches and "but try the spirits whether they are of God." There are many dogma's out there and doctrines of man have replaced the teachings of Christ. It is why there are so many churches today, and why they vary so widely in teachings. But the Spirit of Christ is of one body,one spirit, one mind, and one Church. If you belong to that church then you are in the right place and have all that you need to grow and be nourished in the spirit by the sincere milk of the word. And later when you have come of full age you will be able to set aside the first principles of Christ and move on unto perfection.

May God Bless you with spiritual wisdom and understanding in heavenly places in Christ.
 
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tturt

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I would encourage you not to go by people's opinions - any minister, speaker, etc is going to have someone else say they're a fraud, etc.

Same with the interpretation of Scripture - we all think we're correct - and we all know there's an enormous range of perspectives for almost every Scripture, if not, every Scripture.

But as believers, we have "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:" (John 16:13) and we're to "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12). "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (James 1:5) ETC
 
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Inhiskingdom

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I would encourage you not to go by people's opinions - any minister, speaker, etc is going to have someone else say they're a fraud, etc.

Same with the interpretation of Scripture - we all think we're correct - and we all know there's an enormous range of perspectives.

But as believers, we have "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:" (John 16:13) and we're to "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12). "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (James 1:5) ETC

Good point, if you have the spirit of Christ in you, then you have all that you need, for any lacking knowledge and wisdom can ask of God and shall receive the revelations of Christ.

On side note I do love how people always say interpretations when dealing with scriptures. If you say something they don't agree with they say "thats your interpretation" :)

The thing is, that is a very carnal thought process, for the carnal mind interprets things, but the spiritual minds receives revelations and understanding.

Look at like this, if you believe a certain scripture to mean one thing, and when confronted with several other scriptures that contradict what you believe that scripture to mean then you have two choices. Number one, the other scriptures are wrong and what you believe is right. Or number two, what you believe this scripture to mean is wrong. I don't know about you all, but I know that sweet water and bitter water do not flow from the same fountain. Neither does someone speak truth mingled with lies, for anyone who speaketh part lies is indeed a liar. And likewise the Bible is not part truth, part lies, but whole truth. All the scriptures go together so well, but if you come to a part or verse that contradicts what you think another verse means, then it is time to stand back and with an open mind search for the truth.

Do not be quick to tell someone "that is your interpretation" when confronted with another scripture that appears to contradict what you believe, but instead study and search for the truth. For in doing this you shall be set free.
 
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CGL1023

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Last night, the church that I attend had a guest speaker. His name was Bill Weise, and he seemed pretty convincing. However, I was still left with mix feelings. I heard him cite well known sources such as Strong's concordance and Matthew Henry, along with some reasonable sounding scripture verses. Do you believe this man's story coincides with scripture? Or is he phony? The only things that I can currently agree with is just simply the concept of not keeping the topic of hell so taboo, considering it's a real place. I feel that Christians tend to preach the "Jesus loves you" side so much that people end up reading about the suffering and the tragedy in the bible making it feel exaggerated rather than there being that balance of truths, or sides of the story. I'm rather new to scripture. I've started the new testament 3-4 months ago and finished it and read the 9 books out of the old, and a glance at a few other books. I'm not that strong in scripture, so I'm trying, and that's why I look to other sources for truth.

Here is one article I found claiming the man is a fraud:

__________________✟✞✟__________________​

What always occurs to me when someone visits heaven or hell is that when they report on their visit, they invariably add to scripture. If they didn't embellish scripture, then there would be no reason to buy their book because you could just read the bible.
 
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thesunisout

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I'm kind of skeptical of testimonies which say that demons will be torturing people in hell. Scripture teaches that hell was created for the devil and his angels, not to rule, but as a place of punishment. I don't rule it out, but I don't see it in scripture.
 
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Hi FD,

I'm not familiar with the man's testimony and so I don't make any claim as to the specifics of his claim, but...

There are a couple of questions that beg to be answered:

First, why? The Scriptures are clear that there is place where those who have not trusted and believed God and loved Him for who He is, will be put. The Scriptures are clear that this place will be filled with angels and people who will live a life of eternal torment. Now, maybe God has decided to give us a new revelation of this place, but the question of why still gnaws at my conscience.

Second, the Scriptures also give us an account of the very same thing being asked of a man who wanted to go back and turn his brothers from his destiny and he was not allowed to go back and warn them. That man was told that if his brothers wouldn't believe the Scriptures and the prophets that they weren't going to believe him either. So, again, the question of why comes back. If it didn't seem to God to be a good idea then, why would He consider it a good testimony now?

Finally, as I understand the Scriptures, what the man saw could only have been a dream or a vision. He could not have seen a reality that existed at that moment. The Scriptures are clear that no one will be cast into hell until the day of God's judgment. We are told that it is on that day that Satan and his demons and all those who would not believe were cast into the fiery lake. So, there doesn't appear to be anyone in hell today and this is why I believe, as opposed to others, that the account of the man who cried out to go and warn his brothers is also a parable that is giving us a clear indication of just how bad hell will be. The message of that account is that hell will be soooooo bad that even those who love us and would desire to be with us, would not want us to be with them in the suffering that they are enduring.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted
 
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One Man

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Hi FD,

I'm not familiar with the man's testimony and so I don't make any claim as to the specifics of his claim, but...

There are a couple of questions that beg to be answered:

First, why? The Scriptures are clear that there is place where those who have not trusted and believed God and loved Him for who He is, will be put. The Scriptures are clear that this place will be filled with angels and people who will live a life of eternal torment. Now, maybe God has decided to give us a new revelation of this place, but the question of why still gnaws at my conscience.

Second, the Scriptures also give us an account of the very same thing being asked of a man who wanted to go back and turn his brothers from his destiny and he was not allowed to go back and warn them. That man was told that if his brothers wouldn't believe the Scriptures and the prophets that they weren't going to believe him either. So, again, the question of why comes back. If it didn't seem to God to be a good idea then, why would He consider it a good testimony now?

Finally, as I understand the Scriptures, what the man saw could only have been a dream or a vision. He could not have seen a reality that existed at that moment. The Scriptures are clear that no one will be cast into hell until the day of God's judgment. We are told that it is on that day that Satan and his demons and all those who would not believe were cast into the fiery lake. So, there doesn't appear to be anyone in hell today and this is why I believe, as opposed to others, that the account of the man who cried out to go and warn his brothers is also a parable that is giving us a clear indication of just how bad hell will be. The message of that account is that hell will be soooooo bad that even those who love us and would desire to be with us, would not want us to be with them in the suffering that they are enduring.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted
I think you, like many others, are confusing Hell with the Lake of Fire. In the Bible, these simply must be two different places. It is said that both Hell and Death were cast into the Lake of Fire.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I think you, like many others, are confusing Hell with the Lake of Fire. In the Bible, these simply must be two different places. It is said that both Hell and Death were cast into the Lake of Fire.
How did you 'happen' on this thread ?

The last post was in 2012 (not a problem, though - I often find good/better topics in older threads) ,
(ndes that are false keep coming up the last few months, to try to keep people confused it seems)
So,
The ideas may well be worth seeing, and exposing, but also just noticed this:
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miamited

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I think you, like many others, are confusing Hell with the Lake of Fire. In the Bible, these simply must be two different places. It is said that both Hell and Death were cast into the Lake of Fire.

Hi one man,

No, it says both hades and death were cast into the Lake of Fire. Hades is the place of waiting until the day of God's judgment, as I understand the Scriptures. Hell is the place that Jesus spoke of where there will be torment and anguish eternal.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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tturt

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There's always going to be someone who says they're a fraud so that doesnt automatically invalidate it

It's important to look at how their lives change after these experiences.

It s been years since I heard him speak. He left a good paying job and talks to people because of his concern for them.
 
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Rebecca4Christ

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There's always going to be someone who says they're a fraud so that doesnt automatically invalidate it

It's important to look at how their lives change after these experiences.

It s been years since I heard him speak. He left a good paying job and talks to people because of his concern for them.
The one thing I always ask myself about any person with some sort of personal revelation from God,is is this person earning money from this testimony,and how much?
 
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Omah1970

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What always occurs to me when someone visits heaven or hell is that when they report on their visit, they invariably add to scripture. If they didn't embellish scripture, then there would be no reason to buy their book because you could just read the bible.
Mary K Baxters Divine Revelation Of Hell comes to mind.
 
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