Bill Weise, 23 minutes in hell and many Ezekiel 37 events??!!

Did Bill Weise really see some sort of hell?

  • Yes... Messiah Yeshua/Jesus spoke about hell often.

  • No.. the dead are utterly unconscious until the resurrection.

  • Yes....NDE accounts could be genuine encounters with the Word/LOgos in His glorified form.

  • No........ Bill Weise must have been given a lying vision by Satan.


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DennisTate

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Back in 1965 or '66 when I was 6 or 7 years old I heard a hellfire and brimstone sermon by Dr. Billy Graham and was well prepared to become an atheist after hearing evolutionary theory taught in Grade 2.

Around '72 I heard Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong elaborate on the "soul sleep" theory and I became interested in the Bible again.

I had never been forced to go to church so did not even attend church until I did so voluntarily after listening to Mr. Garner Ted Armstrong for several years.

In 1990 I began to read NDE accounts and I was tossed into a pretty serious philosophical/theological crisis to find out that the "soul sleep" theory is almost certainly in error.

At this time I have concluded that Ezekiel 37 is not limited to being a one time event... but instead G-d is free to replicate moments in what we think of as the past.... spin off a new future much as Hollywood plays around with in many movies....... and so........ a fallen Bill Wiese from one branch of time..... can be shown himself in a previous branch of time...... and be inspired to become a powerful and dedicated evangelist...... in this branch of time??????!!!!!!!!!
 
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DennisTate

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The Word/Logos... composed of fundamental or nearly fundamental energy....... would not even work up a sweat to resurrect all of the dead who ever lived....... How difficult would it be for G-d to replicate the earth and all of us living on it at that time.... sometime previous to the hellish experience of Bill Wiese?

Then.... after showing the old atheistic/fallen Bill Wiese to this new version of him..... his life is transformed.... he gets to know the G-d of Abraham/YHWH... AFTER coming up out of his grave!!!!!?????

"The real burden in the next three centuries will not be the development of fancy mathematics, but the experimental testing of these ambitious theories. All current thinking about total unification assumes that the effects of linking all the forces and particles together will only become manifest at energies that are some trillion times greater than those currently attainable in particle accelerators. Probably we shall never reach such energies directly" ( A Theory of Everything" Volume 21 of "The World of Science)




http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eze&c=37&t=KJV
Eze 37:13
And ye shall know that I am the LORD, WHEN I HAVE OPENED YOUR GRAVES, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,"
..........

"You seek to know and walk in My power so that you can heal the sick and perform miracles, but you have not even begun to comprehend the power of My word. To RESURRECT ALL THE DEAD WHO EVER LIVED ON EARTH WILL NOT EVEN CAUSE ME TO STRAIN. I uphold all things by the power of My word. The creation exists because of My word, and it is held together by My word." (Rick Joyner, page 176, The Vision, emphasis mine)
 
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DennisTate

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Some of you might even be ready to change your vote in this poll that I took a while back:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7647330/

Former atheist Howard Storm asks about holocaust during his NDE?!
I personally am wide open to the possibility that what former atheist Howard Storm was shown regarding the background events surrounding the holocaust fit perfectly with II Corinthians 12:2-4:

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; )
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Howard Storm:
I asked how God could let the Holocaust of World War II happen. We were transported to a railway station as a long train of freight cars was being unloaded of its human cargo. The guards were screaming and beating the people into submission. The people were Jewish men, women, and children. Exhausted from hunger and thirst, they were totally disoriented from the ordeal of being rounded up and sent on a long journey to an unknown destination. They believed that they were going to work camps, and that their submission to the brutality of the guards was the only way to survive.

We went to the area where the selection process was taking place and heard the guards talking about "the Angel Maker." We went to the place the guards were referring to as "the Angel Maker," which was a series of ovens. I saw piles of naked corpses being loaded into the ovens, and I began to cry. ...."These are the people God loves." Then he said, "Look up." Rising out of the smoke of the chimneys, I saw hundreds of people being met by thousands of angels taking them up into the sky. There was great joy in the faces of the people, and there appeared to be no trace of a memory of the horrendous suffering they had just endured. How ironic that the guards sarcastically called the ovens "the Angel Maker."
...
I asked how God could allow this to happen. They told me that this was not God's will. This was an abomination to God. God wants this never to happen again. This was the sacrifice of an innocent people to whom God had given the law to be an example, a light, to the rest of the world. This Holocaust was breaking God's heart...."

I asked, Why does God let things like this happen? They told me that God was very unhappy with the course of human history and was going to intervene to change the world. God had watched us sink to depths of depravity and cruelty at the very time that he was giving us the instruments to make the world a godlier world. God had intervened in the world many times before, but this time God was going to change the course of human events.// (Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death, page 42,43)
 
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DennisTate

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Bill Wiese reports seeing a "vision" of himself as a skeptic who did not believe in God at all and he sees himself in a form of hell.

In one of the films of the Bill Wiese testimony I remember him asking God.......something to the effect of.... "why did you allow me to be in such filth..... I was always so clean and tidy?"

Many of us have bought into the idea that "cleanliness is next to godliness" but...… if we allow this feeling to turn into pride.... and a sense of superiority over others..... this can get us into a worse attitude than we might tend to realize at first!
 
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ContraMundum

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Dennis, the bigger question is this: how come religious people who have NDE's almost always experience something that validates their theology?

I've heard Hasidic NDE's that read like the Tanya, and Christian ones that read like a Cathedral wall.
 
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daq

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During my own NDE it was my own Baal who was speaking terrible and violent words which are not lawful for a man to utter. In the end he slew me because I would not bow the knee to him: and he was the mirror image of myself, the image of a mighty one, and he struck me down. And upon that I slept for the days, the Lazaros days, which are three and the hemi, (I was catatonic and sedated to nearly comatose). I have never given the full account anywhere and do not plan to do so because it is not really possible to adequately relate all that happened. He that endures unto the end shall be saved in the high places of the field, (if this is the way it is meant for you to go). It is an hour and a day known only to the Father. If it is true it will not confirm what a person thinks he or she already knows but rather destroy everything down the foundations for the rebuilding which must come. It seems to me that this way is only for the really wicked, (as I was even though I claimed the Name for nearly thirty years before this event). As Micaiah said, "Behold, thou shalt see in that day, when thou shalt chamber in thy chamber to hide thyself." :)
 
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DennisTate

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Dennis, the bigger question is this: how come religious people who have NDE's almost always experience something that validates their theology?

I've heard Hasidic NDE's that read like the Tanya, and Christian ones that read like a Cathedral wall.

Good question ContraMundum!

Could it be that what we experience in the out of the body or near death state is affect by what we are prepared and able to handle????!!!!
 
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DennisTate

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During my own NDE it was my own Baal who was speaking terrible and violent words which are not lawful for a man to utter. In the end he slew me because I would not bow the knee to him: and he was the mirror image of myself, the image of a mighty one, and he struck me down. And upon that I slept for the days, the Lazaros days, which are three and the hemi, (I was catatonic and sedated to nearly comatose). I have never given the full account anywhere and do not plan to do so because it is not really possible to adequately relate all that happened. He that endures unto the end shall be saved in the high places of the field, (if this is the way it is meant for you to go). It is an hour and a day known only to the Father. If it is true it will not confirm what a person thinks he or she already knows but rather destroy everything down the foundations for the rebuilding which must come. It seems to me that this way is only for the really wicked, (as I was even though I claimed the Name for nearly thirty years before this event). As Micaiah said, "Behold, thou shalt see in that day, when thou shalt chamber in thy chamber to hide thyself." :)

Wow!!!!!

Thank you immensely for adding this Daq!
 
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DennisTate

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I don't know if dude is lying, he may really believe in what he believes, I just don't believe him or anyone who claims to have gone to heaven or hell.

They are never correct in what they see either.

When I first began to research NDE's back in 1990 I was so sold on the "soul sleep" theory that I was wondering if Satan had given people some sort of lying vision.... .but at this time I am convinced that we can learn a great deal from these accounts.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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When I first began to research NDE's back in 1990 I was so sold on the "soul sleep" theory that I was wondering if Satan had given people some sort of lying vision.... .but at this time I am convinced that we can learn a great deal from these accounts.

I don't completely discount somebody who believes what they saw.

I just aint got nothing to learn from them and their ordeal, just aint into it.


Whether it happened or didn't happen is neither here nor there to me.


I can only say that weird things happened to me, but they are things I wouldn't expect anyone to believe but me. I am ok with that.

I have seen things that others would say, '' he is hallucinating''.


So I don't discount everything, its just of no use to me when others have ordeals.

My ordeals are no use to anyone, and that's what I had to learn after a while. It does no good to claim what I have been through, there is no good outcome, so I keep my mouth shut.

There is no way to prove those things right or wrong, so why would I get somebody hung up on something to which they have no idea whether I am making up things or not. Its neither here nor there, and there is nothing to learn.
 
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DennisTate

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I don't completely discount somebody who believes what they saw.

I just aint got nothing to learn from them and their ordeal, just aint into it.


Whether it happened or didn't happen is neither here nor there to me.


I can only say that weird things happened to me, but they are things I wouldn't expect anyone to believe but me. I am ok with that.

I have seen things that others would say, '' he is hallucinating''.


So I don't discount everything, its just of no use to me when others have ordeals.

My ordeals are no use to anyone, and that's what I had to learn after a while. It does no good to claim what I have been through, there is no good outcome, so I keep my mouth shut.

There is no way to prove those things right or wrong, so why would I get somebody hung up on something to which they have no idea whether I am making up things or not. Its neither here nor there, and there is nothing to learn.

I bet if you meet somebody who themselves had one of those conscious near death experiences..... they would not laugh at you if you told them about what you personally saw!

Jer 23:20
The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.


I could be way off..... but I am pretty sure that these accounts are assisting us to better understand they type of anger G-d has!
 
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DennisTate

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Isa 59:19
So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.


Twenty five years ago........ when I was seriously into the Worldwide Church of God...… I was taught that excitement over miracles in other groups..... especially Pentecostals or Baptists....... was probably caused by fallen angels....... healing people....... in order to deceive people......… At this time my wife is Pentecostal and I no longer think this way......… all of us are in for surprises........ because if we will pray for the people and groups that we regard as rivals......… G-d will show us another side to what is happening as the Holy Spirit is poured out..... on ALL FLESH!!!!???

Mat 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
 
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HannibalFlavius

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I am waiting for the spirit to be poured out, but I wait on the fall festivals pouring it out, just as it was done on Shavuot.


I went through a phase of thinking that I was the great prophet, I saw many things that I shouldn't have seen, I knew many things that I shouldn't know. I began thinking of myself as a great prophet, and what I truly believe is that I did become the great false prophet.

I earnestly believe that there is a phase that people can go through where they have visions, dreams, day visions, and just the whole universe speaking to you.


But I also believe that this time is a time of testing to see if you will become the false prophet, just like Eve and what she felt and said.


Everything that happened to me, happened to me. And everyone around me thought of me as a great prophet, but I am convinced that I handled the thing all wrong. I believe it is a time of learning to keep one's mouth shut, and to just watch.

I look around today and see that everyone is a prophet and even their grandma is a prophet, the dog even has a spirit.


What I see are not prophets, and what comes from their mouth is prophecy unto themselves.


I only know that I myself became the great false prophet.


I believe that potential lies within us all, it is a prideful, arrogance that almost destroyed me.


But now I would say,'' I am no prophet.''


I am very ashamed to think that I once thought that I was.
 
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DennisTate

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I am waiting for the spirit to be poured out, but I wait on the fall festivals pouring it out, just as it was done on Shavuot.


I went through a phase of thinking that I was the great prophet, I saw many things that I shouldn't have seen, I knew many things that I shouldn't know. I began thinking of myself as a great prophet, and what I truly believe is that I did become the great false prophet.

I earnestly believe that there is a phase that people can go through where they have visions, dreams, day visions, and just the whole universe speaking to you.


But I also believe that this time is a time of testing to see if you will become the false prophet, just like Eve and what she felt and said.


Everything that happened to me, happened to me. And everyone around me thought of me as a great prophet, but I am convinced that I handled the thing all wrong. I believe it is a time of learning to keep one's mouth shut, and to just watch.

I look around today and see that everyone is a prophet and even their grandma is a prophet, the dog even has a spirit.


What I see are not prophets, and what comes from their mouth is prophecy unto themselves.


I only know that I myself became the great false prophet.


I believe that potential lies within us all, it is a prideful, arrogance that almost destroyed me.


But now I would say,'' I am no prophet.''


I am very ashamed to think that I once thought that I was.

Hannibal Flavius......... on that note..... I need to send you a personal message Sir!!!!!!!!!!!???????

wow!!!!!!!!!

Because you were led to the place where you see the potential to be a false prophet within yourself........ this means that you are prepared to be one of the major major major major league players....... to be able to go up against The man of sin....The son of perdition........ with humility........ which is crucial!!!!!!!??????

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Former atheist Howard Storm came to view himself as being no better than the horrible zombie/vampire like creatures that he met during the negative first part of his NDE.................. This is a crucial step to playing in the major leagues...... if you ask me!!!!!!!!!!?????

You have had the majority of the veils taken away............. this sets you up to do some extraordinary things........
 
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DennisTate

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The dying brain produces DMT, a hallucenogenic substance similar to LSD.

Yes...... but perhaps DMT.... allows the human mind to see other time lines....... all of which may soon be understood to be fulfillments of Ezekiel chapter 37!

Dr. Chaim Henry Tejman has written some on this capacity within the human mind and/or spirit and/or soul???!!!

.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2503370/Quantum-physics-proves-IS-afterlife-claims-scientist.html]Quantum physics proves that there IS an afterlife, claims scientist
Quantum physics proves that there IS an afterlife, claims scientist
Robert Lanza claims the theory of biocentrism says death is an illusion
He said life creates the universe, and not the other way round
This means space and time don't exist in the linear fashion we think it does
He uses the famous double-split experiment to illustrate his point
And if space and time aren't linear, then death can't exist in 'any real sense' either


... what I mean by this is that the vision... that was shown to Bill Wiese.... may have been him..... in another time line......previous to an Ezekiel 37 style resurrection........... and his seeing that vision of himself in a hellish state...... may have been in a sense real????!!!!

But.... we are perhaps in a post Ezekiel 37 time line..... in which Bill Wiese... this time around..... knows the God of Abraham and is working mightily to save souls!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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daq

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Yes...... but perhaps DMT.... allows the human mind to see other time lines....... all of which may soon be understood to be fulfillments of Ezekiel chapter 37!

Dr. Chaim Henry Tejman has written some on this capacity within the human mind and/or spirit and/or soul???!!!

.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2503370/Quantum-physics-proves-IS-afterlife-claims-scientist.html]Quantum physics proves that there IS an afterlife, claims scientist

Quantum physics proves that there IS an afterlife, claims scientist
Robert Lanza claims the theory of biocentrism says death is an illusion
He said life creates the universe, and not the other way round
This means space and time don't exist in the linear fashion we think it does
He uses the famous double-split experiment to illustrate his point
And if space and time aren't linear, then death can't exist in 'any real sense' either
... what I mean by this is that the vision... that was shown to Bill Wiese.... may have been him..... in another time line......previous to an Ezekiel 37 style resurrection........... and his seeing that vision of himself in a hellish state...... may have been in a sense real????!!!!

But.... we are perhaps in a post Ezekiel 37 time line..... in which Bill Wiese... this time around..... knows the God of Abraham and is working mightily to save souls!!!!!!!!!!!





Like a stadion race! :)
 
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DennisTate

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