Bill Johnson, Randy Clark

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Messy

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Most false teachers and prophets are charming people, and Bill Johnson is one such person. Most false teachers and prophets emphasises a number of things that most of us completely agree with, such as street evangelism, Spiritual Gifts, prophecy and healing on the streets, etc., etc. But most end there and where the real problem begins is that they endorse and promote an "anointing" exactly identical to the one that false teachers have promoted before, and the last one I remember was Todd Bentley of the Lakeland Revival that promoted all “angel of light” manifestation, such as being "drunk in the glory", fire-tunnel, laughing, jerking, gold-dust, "Angel-mania" that had did much damage to the Charismatic movement around the world and in many cases reduced it to a shocking charade and sham.

Our great men of the charismatic movement such as Keith Green and Derek Prince would grimace in pain if they were with us today, and what would they think of all that New Age movement farce and sham.

Keep away from Bill Johnson.
He recommends Todd Bentley:
Fresh Fire USA - Writings » Update from Bill Johnson on Todd Bentley
I found a video of Todd Bentley where he said he met an angel and he got out of his body, it was the same angel Branham had. Bill Johnson is friends with Rick Joyner, who on his website says himself that he was in the Knights of Malta, but that was all great.
Now I know good leaders who invite him and took distance from Todd Bentley, so I don't know if it says anything, but it rings some bells with me, I wouldn't go there just to be sure.
 
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ToBeBlessed

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What is NAR?

It stands for New Apostolic Reformation and from what I have seen is very tied to Dominionism, Joel's Army, and Kingdom Now theology.

This theology is very dangerous as it is in direct opposition to the Word as foretold in the books of Daniel and Revelation. These books are very clear that in the last days their will be more wickedness on the earth. That there will be a great 'falling away' of the Word of God and within Christianity.

The Word must be our rock. We are to test all things against the Word of God. We are fore told that there will be many wolves in sheeps clothing.

Many in Christianity seem to NOT believe that these false prophets are among us at the very core of Christianity, but I beg to differ.

Look into this further on the internet. This theology is heretical.
 
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contango

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Well I honestly didn't expect such a splintering here by asking a question about two Charismatic preachers... Perhaps if I'd have brought up Johnny Mac I could understand.

I didn't buy the books, not yet at least, just didn't feel it.

I ended up buying "God Watchers" by Don Nori, Power in the Blood of Jesus by Andrew Murray, and Forgotten God by Francis Chan....

Perhaps once I'm done with those I will look into Bill Johnson and Randy Clark...

For what it's worth I bought a book once about Supernatural Evangelism written by Chris Overstreet or something like that... The man was a young adult pastor under Bill Johnson.. The book was good by and large, but the parts that were questionable were WAY OUT THERE and I suppose that has caused me to question it a bit more...

From what I can see the term "charismatic" can be taken to mean anything from the person who is willing to accept God moving today in ways that don't fit neatly with the unyielding structure of the Book of Common Prayer, to the person who is so far out in left field they see a demon behind every corner and honestly believe the reason their new Ferrari isn't parked outside their mansion is because their faith in claiming it isn't strong enough.

Spiritual gifts, signs and wonders, are all good things when they point to Jesus Christ. When they become an end in themselves the focus is lost, when anything is accepted (sometimes out of fear of attributing God's work to the devil) all sorts of bad doctrine can creep in, and when the focus is more on "the Spirit leading" and less on reading the Bible there's no knowing where it will end up. Even focussing on the Holy Spirit is missing the mark - it's like admiring the floodlights after dark and not looking at the magnificent cathedral they were put there to illuminate.

If we go too far one way on the "traditional-charismatic" scale we end up refusing to do anything even remotely different to the way it's been done for hundreds of years - we put God in a box and decide without even asking that "God doesn't do that any more". If we go too far the other way we end up accepting all sorts of bad things that might say "God" on the package but certainly don't have God in the package.

Put another way, "test all things" doesn't mean "reject all things" but neither does it mean "accept all things". Sometimes teaching is bad and needs to be rejected even if the person presenting it does notionally have a common title with us.
 
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Frogster

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well again, there seems to be an overwhelming belief in what I have heard from others, read on the net, books, etc, and the indicators here on this thread, show they are NAR or certainly very close to it. Again, alot of doctrines criss cross, or people change with the winds of doctrine, so to be fair to the 2 names in the title, they might not be. :)


But if be, could somone tell me exactly what is the new reformation, or revelation they seek to teach us, is?:confused:

Thanks, frog.
 
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talitha

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Seems the question has been answered.. however.. I'm curious about this..
Randy's association with Vineyard ended during the Toronto season.
I visited his Vineyard church in 2000.
WillieT, I guess that WAS nearly 20 years ago..... :sorry:
 
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hislegacy

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You have yet to approve of one Charismatic preacher or teacher…. I have asked you repeatedly and you have done nothing but tear people down.
Especially charismatic people.

which is why some have him on ignore
 
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Joy

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You have yet to approve of one Charismatic preacher or teacher…. I have asked you repeatedly and you have done nothing but tear people down.
Especially charismatic people.

I also wonder why this individual posts here
I would love to read more positive posts on this forum
 
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Alive_Again

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I want to first say that Lakeland was NOT a "false" revival. The enemy may have turned it around (as they do sometimes through attacking the leadership).

I wonder how many did their part to pray for him, even while the revival was going on? Yet the finger is easily pointed. Obviously, it ended poorly, but there were too many works of God and people touched to call it "false".

Also, you submit to your pastor, so it's not about "someone trying to get me to submit to them". You follow him as he follows the Lord (assuming you bear witness to that.) A good leader will always point to the Head. The Head is the One who makes the decisions and it is for the under-shepherds to understand and guide the sheep. It works well if everyone submits to the Shepherd.

I listened to a teaching by Bill Johnson and immediately ran to find a pen (that is after a few minutes of preaching). It was obvious he spent some time in the presence of the Lord.

He has some books I hope to read someday, but so far have not been led to. I can tell though that they contain some keys.

As for Randy, I was touched by his appearance on Sid Roth. You can download from the archives his appearance on that show. He's definitely a prophet. He has some amazing stories only a prophet could really tell.

These apostles aren't trying to get you to follow them. But you may find that your spirit is ministered to by them and you go willingly. Even then, it is the Lord you're submitting to. Unless you have authority issues, it should be a joy to partake of their ministry.

Anyone who helps someone to walk more worthily or more in tune with the Lord concerning your calling IS a reformer. Who cares about titles? If your pastor calls himself one (a pastor), is he "all hung up" about it? Does he seek worship? It should be the same thing with all of the other offices.

It takes the Lord to raise these guys up because pretenders don't have an anointing. Just go by what's in your spirit. It won't be a negative endorsement to not be led a certain direction at this time in your life.

It may be, at a certain time of your life, you may be called to buy a certain book that you've eyed for years. It may be that point that you're ready. I'm hoping to eventually get a number of books I'm intrigued by. Have to wait and see!
 
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Andrea411

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It stands for New Apostolic Reformation and from what I have seen is very tied to Dominionism, Joel's Army, and Kingdom Now theology.

This theology is very dangerous as it is in direct opposition to the Word as foretold in the books of Daniel and Revelation. These books are very clear that in the last days their will be more wickedness on the earth. That there will be a great 'falling away' of the Word of God and within Christianity.

The Word must be our rock. We are to test all things against the Word of God. We are fore told that there will be many wolves in sheeps clothing.

Many in Christianity seem to NOT believe that these false prophets are among us at the very core of Christianity, but I beg to differ.

Look into this further on the internet. This theology is heretical.

…all theology is heretical to someone if its not their theology otherwise it would be their theology… or their interpretation of scripture. I have yet to see any perfect theologians…

I would think Johnson and Clark do their best to stay within the guidelines of scripture. I personally do not follow either, but some people I respect and are true studiers of the word, really like these guys. So you may differ with them as I do with Baptists and most Calvinists but I don't call them out as their theology is within the guidelines of scripture.
 
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Alive_Again

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I want to first say that Lakeland was NOT a "false" revival. The enemy may have turned it around (as they do sometimes through attacking the leadership).

I wondrer how many did their part to pray for him, even while the revival was going on? Yet the finger is easily pointed. Obviously, it ended poorly, but there were too many works of God and people touched to call it "false".

Also, you submit to your pastor, so it's not about "someone trying to get me to submit to them". You follow him as he follows the Lord (assuming you bear witness to that.)

A good leader will always point to the Head. The Head is the One who makes the decisions and it is for the under-shepherds to understand and guide the sheep. It works well if everyone submits to the Shepherd.

I listened to a teaching by Bill Johnson and immediately ran to find a pen (that is after a few minutes of preaching). It was obvious he spent some time in the presence of the Lord.

He has some books I hope to read someday, but so far have not been led to. I can tell though that they contain some keys.

As for Randy, I was touched by his appearance on Sid Roth. You can download from the archives his appearance on that show. He's definitely a prophet. He has some amazing stories only a prophet could really tell.

These apostles aren't trying to get you to follow them. But you may find that your spirit is ministered to by them and you go willingly. Even then, it is the Lord you're submitting to. Unless you have authority issues, it should be a joy to partake of their ministry.

One last thing, if he is NAR (I know he is, just trying to be open that he changed), one has to wonder about the title.

Are they apostles? And what is the reformation they seek to bring in?

Anyone who helps someone to walk more worthily or more in tune with the Lord concerning your calling IS a reformer. Who cares about titles? If your pastor calls himself one, is he "all hung up" about it? Does he seek worship? It should be the same thing with all of the other offices.

It takes the Lord to raise these guys up because pretenders don't have an anointing. Just go by what's in your spirit. It won't be a negative endorsement to not be led a certain direction at this time in your life.

It may be, at a certain time of your life, you may be called to by a certain book that you've eyed for years. It may be that point that you're ready. I'm hoping to eventually get a number of books I'm intrigued by. Have to wait and see!
 
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contango

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Also, you submit to your pastor, so it's not about "someone trying to get me to submit to them". You follow him as he follows the Lord (assuming you bear witness to that.) A good leader will always point to the Head. The Head is the One who makes the decisions and it is for the under-shepherds to understand and guide the sheep. It works well if everyone submits to the Shepherd.


We submit to a pastor up to a point. It's not a case of obeying the pastor without question, I still expect to test my pastor's teaching. Over time he has earned a high degree of my trust so I don't feel the need to run through everything he says with a fine tooth comb (over the time I've known him my Scriptural understanding has also broadened considerably, so it's easier to consider a message against Scripture).

If people submit without question to the shepherd it turns a problem into a tragedy if the shepherd is leading them astray. If the shepherd is well-meaning but misguided, or deliberately leading them astray, makes little difference to where they end up.

I listened to a teaching by Bill Johnson and immediately ran to find a pen (that is after a few minutes of preaching). It was obvious he spent some time in the presence of the Lord.

I'd be interested to know what it was. I saw a video of him supporting Todd Bentley (apparently unable to differentiate between supporting the man as a friend, and supporting a discredited ministry) which left me puzzled, and saw a video of him talking about Jesus "releasing peace into the storm" which left me wondering whether he had actually read his Bible at all.

He has some books I hope to read someday, but so far have not been led to. I can tell though that they contain some keys.

That's what I thought of When Heaven Invades Earth until I re-read it. It contains keys, but when I re-read it I found reasons to avoid it.

It takes the Lord to raise these guys up because pretenders don't have an anointing. Just go by what's in your spirit. It won't be a negative endorsement to not be led a certain direction at this time in your life.

I think when Paul wrote "test all things" he meant more than "just go by what's in your spirit".

 
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Frogster

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I'm not familiar with Randy Clark but personally I'd steer clear of Bill Johnson. Truth be told I'd give him a very wide berth.

I read his book When Heaven Invades Earth some years ago and thought it was amazing, really powerful stuff. Then a couple of friends went to the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry and, when I heard, I felt really pleased for them because they got to actually meet Bill Johnson and study under him.

Over time that sense shifted, as their periodic newsletters shifted in tone. They started off with a sense of asking "if anyone would like to support us financially in this we'd be really grateful" to a far more relentless push for people to "sow into our ministry and reap the rewards". That was the first warning sign for me.

The second warning sign was the way they described healings that apparently took place. The focus always seemed to be on the latest silly stunt pulled by the "healer" and less on the God behind the healing.

The third warning sign was a church I visit. There's a particular place I often visit and when I'm there I have a "home from home" church. I was aware it picked up all sorts of weird and wonderful practises, and I heard Bill Johnson, Bethel, and "sozo" mentioned a lot. The way those names seemed to be constantly mentioned alongside all sorts of weird theology made me wonder.

So I spent some time on Google, and can't say I was surprised when I found substantial amounts of information suggesting he was anything from a false teacher to a wolf. Many sites appeared to be little more than rants, so I found one that referenced the book I had and looked at the claims it made against what Johnson actually wrote in the book. At that stage I was minded to agree that he probably wasn't a teacher to follow but wanted something more concrete - based on my thoughts I would have steered clear of him but wouldn't expect anyone else to do the same unless I could show them something specific and concrete. At the same time I started to re-read When Heaven Invades Earth with a mind more inclined to "test all things" and the more I read the more uneasy I became.

Reading over the article at (An Invasion of Error: A Review of Bill Johnson—When Heaven Invades Earth) focussed a number of issues I had with his book. I haven't relisted them because the article seems to cover things pretty well.

I read the back page synopsis of another one of his books at a Christian bookstore (I forget which book it was now) and the gist of it was that we had a load of blank checks given to us by God and all we had to do was effectively fill them in and sign them and we could have anything we wanted. I can't see that as anything other than a twisting of Scripture.

Personally I find it very distasteful when churches offer expensive courses where it's not clear just what is offered in return. Bethel offers a course for some $800 per person to learn how to be a worship leader, and their School of Supernatural Ministry charges something in the region of $4500 per year. It is hard to see how any man can teach any other man how to use spiritual gifts - if God has given me a gift then the best anyone can do is offer guidance in how to use it (in which case it's hard to see what value a multi-year course offers) and if God has not given me that gift then no man can teach me how to use it (in which case a multi-year course offers no value at all).

Do your own research, look online for accounts for and against his ministry and test them. If you can find one of his books in a thrift store have a read, but if you do read it make sure to read verses he quotes in context and consider what the Scriptures were intended to say rather than the meaning that might be implied from an isolated verse or two.

To be clear, I have no issue with letting the Holy Spirit move and believe that to do any less is to put God in a box. That said I find the idea that man can control the supernatural, as if we can simply speak things into being as a matter of routine, is dangerously close to deifying man and relegating God to little more than a servant who does our bidding.

To summarise, from what I can tell Bethel is a money-making venture that happens to incorporate a church, and Bill Johnson is someone who uses Scriptures that apparently support what he says but only when they are taken out of context and twisted.

Wow, veddy veddy intadesting..hmmmmm..

Well informed post. Do you know if they, the 2 men in the OP teach the unscriptural tithing doctrine?

I am trying to learn more about these gentlemen.:)
 
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Alive_Again

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I think when Paul wrote "test all things" he meant more than "just go by what's in your spirit".

First off, why would you think anyone would imply "unconditional" followers?

Also, part of what you do to test is to check on the inside with the Holy Spirit. There's a million good teachings you might listen to and benefit from. But you want the one the Lord leads you to, because it will minister the most to you.

So if you pick up a book and the Holy Spirit draws you to it, you can trust Him that He won't lead you into the wrong thing.
 
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Alrighty now, some scripture guidelines from the frog.

I am not saying who is a wolf, who is not, or if they are.

However, Paul mentioned wolves, it is scriptural, and in fact he used his working not to burden, to show who were the false apostles, the gospel peddlers of 2 Cor 2:17.

Paul used the theme in Acts 20, and here in 2 Cor 11, against the false apostles, who fleeced the flock for money. Though on occasion, Paul took limited gifts, not extractions, not "tithes" he clearly uses his work ethic to show that the false apostles, were not like him, those who fleeced the flock.

In other words, Paul said, they are false, "I work to show them up" in this verse below, because they did not work, they fleeced. And he said he does this to show who is false.

Again, adding info for the good of the thread, as money was mentioned, and the wolf word was mentioned, and we are trying to all learn here, who is where, and what?


2 Cor 11:12 And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

Ok, again just showing something here, that the wolf word is valid scripturally, and if some think they are wolves, they have the right scripturally to say why.

thanks, frog.


One more a warning to Tim, given as an indicator of false teachers....


Amplified1 Tim 6:5
And protracted wrangling and wearing discussion and perpetual friction among men who are corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, who imagine that godliness or righteousness is a source of profit [a moneymaking business, a means of livelihood]. From such withdraw.
 
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Andrea411

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I'm not familiar with Randy Clark but personally I'd steer clear of Bill Johnson. Truth be told I'd give him a very wide berth.

I read his book When Heaven Invades Earth some years ago and thought it was amazing, really powerful stuff. Then a couple of friends went to the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry and, when I heard, I felt really pleased for them because they got to actually meet Bill Johnson and study under him.

Over time that sense shifted, as their periodic newsletters shifted in tone. They started off with a sense of asking "if anyone would like to support us financially in this we'd be really grateful" to a far more relentless push for people to "sow into our ministry and reap the rewards". That was the first warning sign for me.

The second warning sign was the way they described healings that apparently took place. The focus always seemed to be on the latest silly stunt pulled by the "healer" and less on the God behind the healing.

The third warning sign was a church I visit. There's a particular place I often visit and when I'm there I have a "home from home" church. I was aware it picked up all sorts of weird and wonderful practises, and I heard Bill Johnson, Bethel, and "sozo" mentioned a lot. The way those names seemed to be constantly mentioned alongside all sorts of weird theology made me wonder.

So I spent some time on Google, and can't say I was surprised when I found substantial amounts of information suggesting he was anything from a false teacher to a wolf. Many sites appeared to be little more than rants, so I found one that referenced the book I had and looked at the claims it made against what Johnson actually wrote in the book. At that stage I was minded to agree that he probably wasn't a teacher to follow but wanted something more concrete - based on my thoughts I would have steered clear of him but wouldn't expect anyone else to do the same unless I could show them something specific and concrete. At the same time I started to re-read When Heaven Invades Earth with a mind more inclined to "test all things" and the more I read the more uneasy I became.

Reading over the article at (An Invasion of Error: A Review of Bill Johnson—When Heaven Invades Earth) focussed a number of issues I had with his book. I haven't relisted them because the article seems to cover things pretty well.

I read the back page synopsis of another one of his books at a Christian bookstore (I forget which book it was now) and the gist of it was that we had a load of blank checks given to us by God and all we had to do was effectively fill them in and sign them and we could have anything we wanted. I can't see that as anything other than a twisting of Scripture.

Personally I find it very distasteful when churches offer expensive courses where it's not clear just what is offered in return. Bethel offers a course for some $800 per person to learn how to be a worship leader, and their School of Supernatural Ministry charges something in the region of $4500 per year. It is hard to see how any man can teach any other man how to use spiritual gifts - if God has given me a gift then the best anyone can do is offer guidance in how to use it (in which case it's hard to see what value a multi-year course offers) and if God has not given me that gift then no man can teach me how to use it (in which case a multi-year course offers no value at all).

Do your own research, look online for accounts for and against his ministry and test them. If you can find one of his books in a thrift store have a read, but if you do read it make sure to read verses he quotes in context and consider what the Scriptures were intended to say rather than the meaning that might be implied from an isolated verse or two.

To be clear, I have no issue with letting the Holy Spirit move and believe that to do any less is to put God in a box. That said I find the idea that man can control the supernatural, as if we can simply speak things into being as a matter of routine, is dangerously close to deifying man and relegating God to little more than a servant who does our bidding.

To summarise, from what I can tell Bethel is a money-making venture that happens to incorporate a church, and Bill Johnson is someone who uses Scriptures that apparently support what he says but only when they are taken out of context and twisted.

The article you quoted and the person who wrote it… is Bob DeWaay. So since he decided to take a Christian leader to task I thought I'd see if he was a cessationist or not… this is what I found.

Sola Sisters: Sin, Church Discipline and Thoughts About Bob DeWaay - Part 1

Posted by Christine Pack

Bob DeWaay is the former pastor of Twin City Fellowship, a church that he pastored for over 20 years. Last fall, it was found out that Bob had been diagnosed with alcoholic hepatitis, which had come about as a result of years of secret alcoholic drinking. When this secret sin came to light, the elders of Bob's church did the right thing - and the hard thing - and disciplined Bob by removing him from the pulpit and placing him under church discipline. And Bob, as I thought he would, submitted to this discipline.

As Bob's friend and sister in Christ, I have written these two articles (Sin, Church Discipline and Thoughts About Bob DeWaay) under the guidance of my husband and my own pastor for several reasons:

(1) To put the spotlight on both sin - and how we must biblically respond to it - and church discipline - and what our biblical model is for this. God disciplines those He loves.....and ALL of us will be in need of discipline/rebuke/correction at some point in our Christian walks. I thank God that He has provided a biblical model for us to follow;

(2) So that those in the Christian community might have a clearer picture of what happened in this situation. I think there's a lot of "I heard something bad about him, but I'm not sure what the story is" kind of thinking out there;

(3) So that when this issue arises, and I am questioned (as I have been) about why I still publish Bob DeWaay's CIC articles or CIC radio shows from time to time, I can simply point to these articles I have written as an explanation that I'm aware of the sin, I've observed the situation, and I've reached my conclusion. This is not to say that I think that Bob will never be in sin again, only that biblically, this is the model I must follow. Bob's teachings have never been in dispute, and for 20 years, he has been the foremost expert on false teachings and how they have crept into the church. As far as I am concerned, his work still stands.

Part 1 of these 2 articles is below, and Part 2 can be read here.
…………………………………….

I don't deny that people with problems can offer wonderful things and words. Often those ensnared by addiction have a painfully clear view of the world bc they know what it is to be overcome…. but he is not who I would use to criticize Bill Johnson. I would pray for Mr. DeWaay, it seems he has a loving group of people who care for him. May he realize victory and may the Lord himself raise this man up to health and deliver him from his addiction.

You can always find people to criticize. Please the anti-charismatic charismatics do not need any more slop to throw… they get all excited and run away with it….

God bless, andrea
 
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contango

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The article you quoted and the person who wrote it… is Bob DeWaay. So since he decided to take a Christian leader to task I thought I'd see if he was a cessationist or not… this is what I found.

Regardless of whether he is a cessationist I'd consider what he has to say and figure what, if anything, has merit.


(3) So that when this issue arises, and I am questioned (as I have been) about why I still publish Bob DeWaay's CIC articles or CIC radio shows from time to time, I can simply point to these articles I have written as an explanation that I'm aware of the sin, I've observed the situation, and I've reached my conclusion. This is not to say that I think that Bob will never be in sin again, only that biblically, this is the model I must follow. Bob's teachings have never been in dispute, and for 20 years, he has been the foremost expert on false teachings and how they have crept into the church. As far as I am concerned, his work still stands.

Part 1 of these 2 articles is below, and Part 2 can be read here.
…………………………………….
I don't deny that people with problems can offer wonderful things and words. Often those ensnared by addiction have a painfully clear view of the world bc they know what it is to be overcome…. but he is not who I would use to criticize Bill Johnson. I would pray for Mr. DeWaay, it seems he has a loving group of people who care for him. May he realize victory and may the Lord himself raise this man up to health and deliver him from his addiction.

You can always find people to criticize. Please the anti-charismatic charismatics do not need any more slop to throw… they get all excited and run away with it….

God bless, andrea

I trimmed the blue text for brevity because the part I wanted to focus on is bolded. Even though Bob DeWaay appears to have fallen into sin himself, the writer states that his teachings have "never been in dispute" and he has been "the foremost expert on false teachings".

So it looks like even though he himself struggled with alcohol, his teachings are still considered sound by Christine Pack (I am not familiar with her so can't comment one way or the other whether I'd put any weight in her opinion).

In a situation like this I would still look at the underlying theology, the underlying teachings, and look to see whether they had merit. If somebody points out doctrinal errors and subsequently falls into sin himself it doesn't rewrite history and make those doctrinal errors disappear. We need to consider teachings on their merits.

I posted a link to the article because it summed up a number of the concerns I had about Bill Johnson and that particular book, added more information on them, and meant I didn't have to write my own extended commentary.
 
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jiminpa

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I'm not familiar with Randy Clark but personally I'd steer clear of Bill Johnson. Truth be told I'd give him a very wide berth.

I read his book When Heaven Invades Earth some years ago and thought it was amazing, really powerful stuff. Then a couple of friends went to the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry and, when I heard, I felt really pleased for them because they got to actually meet Bill Johnson and study under him.

Over time that sense shifted, as their periodic newsletters shifted in tone. They started off with a sense of asking "if anyone would like to support us financially in this we'd be really grateful" to a far more relentless push for people to "sow into our ministry and reap the rewards". That was the first warning sign for me.

The second warning sign was the way they described healings that apparently took place. The focus always seemed to be on the latest silly stunt pulled by the "healer" and less on the God behind the healing.

The third warning sign was a church I visit. There's a particular place I often visit and when I'm there I have a "home from home" church. I was aware it picked up all sorts of weird and wonderful practises, and I heard Bill Johnson, Bethel, and "sozo" mentioned a lot. The way those names seemed to be constantly mentioned alongside all sorts of weird theology made me wonder.

So I spent some time on Google, and can't say I was surprised when I found substantial amounts of information suggesting he was anything from a false teacher to a wolf. Many sites appeared to be little more than rants, so I found one that referenced the book I had and looked at the claims it made against what Johnson actually wrote in the book. At that stage I was minded to agree that he probably wasn't a teacher to follow but wanted something more concrete - based on my thoughts I would have steered clear of him but wouldn't expect anyone else to do the same unless I could show them something specific and concrete. At the same time I started to re-read When Heaven Invades Earth with a mind more inclined to "test all things" and the more I read the more uneasy I became.

Reading over the article at (An Invasion of Error: A Review of Bill Johnson—When Heaven Invades Earth) focussed a number of issues I had with his book. I haven't relisted them because the article seems to cover things pretty well.

I read the back page synopsis of another one of his books at a Christian bookstore (I forget which book it was now) and the gist of it was that we had a load of blank checks given to us by God and all we had to do was effectively fill them in and sign them and we could have anything we wanted. I can't see that as anything other than a twisting of Scripture.

Personally I find it very distasteful when churches offer expensive courses where it's not clear just what is offered in return. Bethel offers a course for some $800 per person to learn how to be a worship leader, and their School of Supernatural Ministry charges something in the region of $4500 per year. It is hard to see how any man can teach any other man how to use spiritual gifts - if God has given me a gift then the best anyone can do is offer guidance in how to use it (in which case it's hard to see what value a multi-year course offers) and if God has not given me that gift then no man can teach me how to use it (in which case a multi-year course offers no value at all).

Do your own research, look online for accounts for and against his ministry and test them. If you can find one of his books in a thrift store have a read, but if you do read it make sure to read verses he quotes in context and consider what the Scriptures were intended to say rather than the meaning that might be implied from an isolated verse or two.

To be clear, I have no issue with letting the Holy Spirit move and believe that to do any less is to put God in a box. That said I find the idea that man can control the supernatural, as if we can simply speak things into being as a matter of routine, is dangerously close to deifying man and relegating God to little more than a servant who does our bidding.

To summarise, from what I can tell Bethel is a money-making venture that happens to incorporate a church, and Bill Johnson is someone who uses Scriptures that apparently support what he says but only when they are taken out of context and twisted.
Your source is more questionable than any "heretic" they could possible identify. They link to the honesty challenged CARM website, and the blasphemer johnmcartur's graceless community church. I presume that their facts are just the same recycled lies and gossip that those sites are known for, (they all quote each other to provide external citations for things that they fabricate), and I consider their lying accusations the highest possible endorsement of a Christian, so these ministers labelled as heretical are probably doing God's work and drawing Satanic attacks from these sites.
 
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jiminpa

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Regardless of whether he is a cessationist I'd consider what he has to say and figure what, if anything, has merit.
I'd ask you why, but I don't actually care. Anyone who denies the basic tenants of Biblical Christianity is not qualified to evaluate anyone's ministry. At best cessationists are absolutely ignorant of scripture and yet mostly likely to able to quote the words while denouncing their meaning. Most are actually openly hostile to everything God's Spirit does.
 
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