Big Bang Theory. what is Orthodoxy Position?

[Alonso_Castillo]

I recently read this article:

http://www.creatio.orthodoxy.ru/sbornik/sbufeev_whynot_english.html

Flee from delirious ideas of philosophers who are not ashamed to say that their soul and a dog's soul are alike and that they were fish.

St Basil the Great.

What is the Orthodox attitude towards natural science? This question does not have at the moment a rigorous and unambiguous answer. The point is not as much in a detailed explanation of its various aspects as in the possibility of a coherent Orthodox view of the key issues of natural science. Is it really possible to reconcile the Orthodox dogmas and scientific knowledge? E.g., can one combine the Biblical story of creation and the Christian understanding of its purpose with the contemporary cosmogonic theory of the "big bang" and the eventual evolutionary development of the universe, or with the concept of the origin of life based on destruction (mutations) and death (natural selection)? Is Orthodox education at all compatible with such a materialistic perspective? Some Christian apologetic publications are aimed at finding a positive answer. However the attractiveness of such an answer is deceiving, since it conveys the idea that it is possible to come to the Divine Truth without believing in Christ, with the help of scientific reasoning of the human mind only. But whatsoever is not of faith is sin (Rom 14:23). Without God neither science nor any other concept of human thought leads to the Truth, that no flesh should glory in the presence of God. (1 Cor 1:29). The Saviour Himself has said: "I receive not testimony from man" (Jn 5:34); "Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice" (Jn 18:37); "He that is not with me is against me" (Mt 12:30).

What then is the Official position of Orthodoxy? Did men and Dinosaurs walk together?

 

[ArmyMatt]

there have been countless threads that we have done on this issue, you can check them out.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

there have been countless threads that we have done on this issue, you can check them out.

Any Link?

 

[ArmyMatt]

check the histories on here, you will find it

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

While I find it ¿What is the official position?

 

[Petros2015]

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Evolution

"The development of modern science dates to the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries,
so no ecumenical council has ever addressed how to integrate it with divine revelation
in a coherent and consistent worldview. As a result, there is not a dogmatic treatment
examining how to resolve conflicts, whether apparent or real, when scientific findings
appear to contradict divine revelation. Many early fathers were happy to use the primitive
science of their day to divine purposes, perhaps suggesting to modern Christians a
compatibilist resolution to the question. Other fathers, however, clearly see conflicts
and contradictions which they resolve in favor of their understanding of Christian revelation."

There are a number of links and references here on both sides which might be good to check out. One by Metropolitan Kallistos who I would recommend and be interested in listening to... Unfortunately it is a dead link but maybe it can be found somewhere else. Sounds like it would be incorrect to say the Church has issued an official position pigeonholing it one way or another.

My personal favorite book on the subject is The Science of God by Gerald Schroeder, but he is a Jewish physicist. I found it edifying though and it helped to reconcile some of the incompatibilities between 6 day creationism in scripture with modern science and left me with a better appreciation of both.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

Thank you for your support.

I don't want to be rude but it seems to me that such indefinition is leaving many Orthodox Christians in a limbo or at least divided between the Science which sends rockets to Planets and a stagnant Theology not due to incapability of Theology to conciliate Prophetic Revelation in the Books of the Bible with the Other source of revelation, the Book of Nature which was also written by God His creator. But a Stagnant Theology by matters of a inoperative Ecclesiology made of many Autocephalous Patriarchs who are incapable of reaching an harmonious life of the Church.

I then would suggest, with all due respect, in exchange to reading Talmudian jewish references, take a look at these:

MESSAGE TO THE PONTIFICAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES:
ON EVOLUTION
Pope John Paul II

https://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM

 

[Petros2015]

lol I don't feel I'm left in limbo, I feel perfectly comfortable Safe even.

Your concern is touching.

Best,

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

lol I don't feel I'm left in limbo, I feel perfectly comfortable Safe even.

Your concern is touching.

Best,

Right so, either Dinosaurs walked with men or Patriarchate of Moscow is saying too much than what it should?

How you get comfortable?

 

[Petros2015]

How you get comfortable?

I believe in the fallibility of Man. And no one has asked me to believe in the infallibility of the statement by the Patriarchate of Moscow. Nor will they. No one is going to try and logically or theologically wrestle me into an uncomfortable position on the matter. I'm free to learn and grow and seek. "the exercise is left to the reader"

Also, the article was (and still is) incredibly long, so instead of reading what I suspected might be bait, I did some house work and invited my neighbor over, the one I'm commanded to love and am occasionally tempted to murder, who has 3 loud constantly barking dogs and whose wife just left him and who needed the company.

Later I got to wondering what the actual position was, did some research and was happy with what I found. So I learned a few things and I shared.

And that's how I get comfortable.

Mind you, I might be a bit more concerned if I actually lived in Moscow.

I heard they lost 5 to a T-Rex just last week

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

As in everything I have debated here in St Justin, the core matter is consistency. In the measure that Christian Churches become not healthily except to any new claim in science or Technology but ultimately simply denied to even check evidences and board the implications and assume leadership on the challenges that new knowledge represent for old Dogmas, in that same measure the Christian churches become not only irrelevant to the lives of Christians but ultimately caduceus as the pagan religions which were unable to conciliate their dogmas to reality.

The fact that official position of the orthodox churches is more of the kind of immobility while erroneous will make its followers more of the kind of people who set aside their relation with God and his Body, the church, to make science. Put it this way, an astronomer who measures distances to galaxies and who measures the background radiation remnant of the Big Bang, in an exercise of selfconsistency either will deny the words of his priests and bishops or will have to drop his vocation to Astronomy and leave astronomy advances to be done by Atheists.

That is what a stupid conflict of Science and Religion may cause. Fortunately the Western Church did allow the Priests to be Also Scientist like Father Lemaitre who was able to destroy Scientific Atheism supported in the paradigm of an eternal Universe, by simply showing the historical consequences of an expanding universe as a finite universe in the past as far as you move backwards in time in history. The Big Bang is a Theory of a Catholic Priest who was endorsed by The Successor of Peter Pope Pius XII.

 

[Petros2015]

Well that's very impressive. I hope that one day you'll be back in communion with us

I don't think either Orthodoxy or RCC discourage scientific inquiry in any dogmatic sense. I think the main difference between the two might just stem from a matter of ego if you boiled it all down. Finding myself in desperate need of humility, you'll pardon me for being more at home in the humbler Church.

You've asked for the official Orthodox position on the Big Bang. I think I've given it to you. And, incidentally, to myself.

One day some of the brethren came to see Abba Antony, and among them was Abba Joseph. Wishing to test them, the old man mentioned a text from Scripture, and starting with the youngest, he asked them what it meant. Each explained it as best he could. But to each one the old man said, "you have not yet found the answer." Last of all he said to Abba Joseph, "And what do you think the text means?" He replied, "I do not know." Then Abba Antony said, "Truly, Abba Jospeh has found the way, for he said: I do not know."

~The Sayings of the Desert Fathers

 

[khristosanesti]

I don't know about evolution specifically, I believe it's partially true but I also believe that Adam and Eve were real people and the fall was not allegorical. I won't know the details until I die and I don't really care.


As for the Big Bang theory, yes I believe in it and it's a separate issue from evolution. Genesis 1:3 literally describes the Big Bang.

 

[Radrook]

While I find it ¿What is the official position?

The Catholic Church and most other major denominations of Christendom have nothing against the Big Bang Theory. In fact, most seem to feel quite comfortable even accepting the theory of evolution which clearly contradicts the straightforward Genesis account.

In short, the clergy policy resembles that of politicians who are constantly testing the current public views in order to go along with the popular flow and not upset the apple cart.

 

[gzt]

There isn't an official position either way, but belief in the Big Bang is popular and normal for Orthodox Christians, though there is certainly a "young earth creationist" faction among some corners of Orthodoxy.

 

[Christina C]

I recently read this article:

S.V.Bufeev. Why an Orthodox Christian cannot be an evolutionist




What then is the Official position of Orthodoxy? Did men and Dinosaurs walk together?

You might be interested in the Darwin series of podcasts by Fr Thomas Hopko on Ancient Faith Radio. I have only listened to the first one so far.
Darwin and Christianity - Part 1 - Speaking the Truth in Love | Ancient Faith Ministries

 

[ArmyMatt]

Alonso has been banned from this forum for breaking rules, so I dunno if he will get this. you might want to pm him.

 

[Christina C]

Alonso has been banned from this forum for breaking rules, so I dunno if he will get this. you might want to pm him.

Oh, ok. Thanks for letting me know. No, that's ok. Won't pm him.

 

[ArmyMatt]

no probs

 

[prodromos]

There isn't an official position either way, but belief in the Big Bang is popular and normal for Orthodox Christians, though there is certainly a "young earth creationist" faction among some corners of Orthodoxy.

We're less of a faction than you make us out to be.