Biden warned Germany/Europe about Nord Stream 2 in 2016...

[Halbhh]

Finally Germany stepped up and suspended the pipeline.

Only Germany or the owners of the pipeline had the right to do that.

And they have.

All the U.S. could do was talk. Both Trump and Biden warned Germany (and both did well in warning), but that was all we could do, legitimately.

We've all seen here on CF repeated posts about Trump warning Germany, and of course Biden did also, before Trump --

Biden warns Europe against dependency on Russia for heating oil and natural gas (August 2016)
He cautioned the EU against going ahead with the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. No country should use energy as a weapon, Biden said referring to past episodes of Moscow cutting off gas supplies in winter.

Biden warns Europe against dependency on Russia for heating oil and natural gas | DW | 25.08.2016

(DW is a huge public broadcaster from Germany with worldwide reach, similar to the BBC)

And later Trump warned -- July 2018
Trump lashes Germany over gas pipeline deal, calls it Russia's 'captive'


But all along, only the owners or Germany could stop it, and it's huge that Germany has acted.

 

[Halbhh]

A turning point for Germany:

In a huge shift, changing decades of policy, Germany has decided to send arms and also to increase its own defense spending by a very large amount.

This is such a huge shift.

It's even bigger in a way than Sweden now wanting to join NATO, and Finland (which is also huge).

 

[Hazelelponi]

Finally Germany stepped up and suspended the pipeline.

Only Germany or the owners of the pipeline had the right to do that.

And they have.

All the U.S. could do was talk. Both Trump and Biden warned Germany (and both did well in warning), but that was all we could do, legitimately.

We've all seen here on CF repeated posts about Trump warning Germany, and of course Biden did also, before Trump --

Biden warns Europe against dependency on Russia for heating oil and natural gas (August 2016)
He cautioned the EU against going ahead with the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. No country should use energy as a weapon, Biden said referring to past episodes of Moscow cutting off gas supplies in winter.

Biden warns Europe against dependency on Russia for heating oil and natural gas | DW | 25.08.2016

(DW is a huge public broadcaster from Germany with worldwide reach, similar to the BBC)

And later Trump warned -- July 2018
Trump lashes Germany over gas pipeline deal, calls it Russia's 'captive'


But all along, only the owners or Germany could stop it, and it's huge that Germany has acted.

I'm not sure I'm understanding you. That they stopped the second pipeline when Russia went into the Ukraine is old news at this point.

Have they shut down Nord Stream 1? That one is the one they get about 1/3 of their gas from.. Nord Stream 2 was only a project in the works.

German stakeholder in Nord Stream 1 natural gas pipeline rejects calls to shut it down in response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine

 

[Halbhh]

I'm not sure I'm understanding you. That they stopped the second pipeline the second Russia went into the Ukraine is old news at this point.

Have they shut down Nord Stream 1? That one is the one they get about 1/3 of their heating etc from..

German stakeholder in Nord Stream 1 natural gas pipeline rejects calls to shut it down in response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine

Nope, but the huge meaning of suspending Nord Stream 2 is like firing a huge warning shot in front of the bow of the Russian titanic (it's gigantic oil and gas revenues).

Russia has a chance to realize what is at stake (all of that future oil and gas revenue being sharply reduced and future income trailing down faster than was thought would be if Europe keeps doing more to reduce use....), and Russia still has a chance to go back into normal international relationships/rule of law before it loses far more of that future income. (Europe reducing use sharply will lower world prices a lot....)

 

[Halbhh]

Interesting quote from that article in the OP link:

"Over-dependence on Russian energy would also be bad for Ukraine, the vice president said. Ukraine is currently fighting a Kremlin-backed separatist movement in the east of the country.

"To lock in great reliance on Russia will fundamentally destabilize Ukraine," Biden said.
Biden warns Europe against dependency on Russia for heating oil and natural gas | DW | 25.08.2016

 

[Halbhh]

Some potential very good news out of Germany about that dependency on Russian gas:

Amid the ongoing war in Ukraine, the German government is examining every option to keep the country warm and reduce its energy dependence on Russia. Keeping nuclear power plants online is being reviewed....
Germany considers keeping nuclear power plants online

I figure they have got to not only keep those online, but probably bring back a few that they have mothballed. They need to end using natural gas for electric power generation.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Nope, but the huge meaning of suspending Nord Stream 2 is like firing a huge warning shot in front of the bow of the Russian titanic (it's gigantic oil and gas revenues).

Russia has a chance to realize what is at stake (all of that future oil and gas revenue being sharply reduced and future income trailing down faster than was thought would be if Europe keeps doing more to reduce use....), and Russia still has a chance to go back into normal international relationships/rule of law before it loses far more of that future income. (Europe reducing use sharply will lower world prices a lot....)

I don't see it like that, since it was as yet nonexistent revenue that simply remains unchanged while Germany continues to remain dependent on Russian gas - it simply maintains a status quo that still has its roots in dependency.

A shot across the bow would be to shut down Nord Stream 1.

 

[trophy33]

Only few people know it, but the strategic reserves of the EU of oil, gas and similar would keep the whole EU running for between one to three months without any oil and gas delivery.

But Russian economy would not last for three months without selling it to the EU, it creates 40% of their GDP.

Therefore, Russia will not use it as a weapon, because they need to sell it more than the EU needs to buy it.

So, the topic is sensitive and quite complex. Both sides are dependent on each other in this.

 

[BobRyan]

We've all seen here on CF repeated posts about Trump warning Germany, and of course Biden did also, before Trump --

Biden warns Europe against dependency on Russia for heating oil and natural gas (August 2016)
He cautioned the EU against going ahead with the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. No country should use energy as a weapon, Biden said referring to past episodes of Moscow cutting off gas supplies in winter.

.

So then "which Biden" did we elect???

That one?

or this one?

Nord Stream 2: Biden waives US sanctions on Russian pipeline

 

[Halbhh]

I don't see it like that, since it was as yet nonexistent revenue that simply remains unchanged while Germany continues to remain dependent on Russian gas - it simply maintains a status quo that still has its roots in dependency.

A shot across the bow would be to shut down Nord Stream 1.

Well, some signs of what is possible, even if it won't be today -- not only for Germany to stop (delay for a long while) shutting down remaining nuclear plants (they had planned to shut), but even to (maybe) bring back some mothballed plants (and even shut down some/most/all natural gas electric power plants(!) ideally)
Germany considers keeping nuclear power plants online
(now, the current PM isn't likely to want that....not yet (with Nord 1 still going)...but, that reluctance about nuclear could change if reality changes)

 

[Halbhh]

So then "which Biden" did we elect???

That one?

or this one?

Nord Stream 2: Biden waives US sanctions on Russian pipeline

Yeah, that was a real shortcoming.

Though on the other hand, having Germany stand up to suspend Nord 2 (instead of US trying to control it from afar) is so much better....

 

[BobRyan]

Yeah, that was a real shortcoming.

Though on the other hand, having Germany stand up to suspend Nord 2 (instead of US trying to control it from afar) is so much better....

True - but we just now suspended our oil purchases from Russia (today) - and Germany is hugely dependent on Russia for oil even without NS 2. They would need us to "lead by example" in our own dealings with Russia - instead of the previous move by Biden of rolling back sanctions against NS 2.

 

[Brihaha]

Biden is much wiser than people are willing to admit. It's the age old dichotomy in politics. Bash the other party at every chance. I think those hyper partisan folks would brag to people about how competent Joe is......if he was their grandpa. Alas, he is our president so they have the apparently unsated desire to criticize and undercut his every move. His wisdom was easily seen at the debates, especially contrasted against trump's unhinged interruptions.

 

[hislegacy]

Finally Germany stepped up and suspended the pipeline.

Only Germany or the owners of the pipeline had the right to do that.

And they have.

All the U.S. could do was talk. Both Trump and Biden warned Germany (and both did well in warning), but that was all we could do, legitimately.

We've all seen here on CF repeated posts about Trump warning Germany, and of course Biden did also, before Trump --

Biden warns Europe against dependency on Russia for heating oil and natural gas (August 2016)
He cautioned the EU against going ahead with the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. No country should use energy as a weapon, Biden said referring to past episodes of Moscow cutting off gas supplies in winter.

Biden warns Europe against dependency on Russia for heating oil and natural gas | DW | 25.08.2016

(DW is a huge public broadcaster from Germany with worldwide reach, similar to the BBC)

And later Trump warned -- July 2018
Trump lashes Germany over gas pipeline deal, calls it Russia's 'captive'


But all along, only the owners or Germany could stop it, and it's huge that Germany has acted.

Trump brought the pipeline to a stop. Biden opened it back up.

 

[disciple Clint]

Finally Germany stepped up and suspended the pipeline.

Only Germany or the owners of the pipeline had the right to do that.

And they have.

All the U.S. could do was talk. Both Trump and Biden warned Germany (and both did well in warning), but that was all we could do, legitimately.

We've all seen here on CF repeated posts about Trump warning Germany, and of course Biden did also, before Trump --

Biden warns Europe against dependency on Russia for heating oil and natural gas (August 2016)
He cautioned the EU against going ahead with the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. No country should use energy as a weapon, Biden said referring to past episodes of Moscow cutting off gas supplies in winter.

Biden warns Europe against dependency on Russia for heating oil and natural gas | DW | 25.08.2016

(DW is a huge public broadcaster from Germany with worldwide reach, similar to the BBC)

And later Trump warned -- July 2018
Trump lashes Germany over gas pipeline deal, calls it Russia's 'captive'


But all along, only the owners or Germany could stop it, and it's huge that Germany has acted.

So if Biden warned them and thought it was a bad idea why did he reverse Trump on Nord Stream 2

 

[hislegacy]

So if Biden warned them and thought it was a bad idea why did he reverse Trump on Nord Stream 2

Yep - that is the $64,000,000 question that will most likely never be directly answered by the Biden supporters.

 

[Halbhh]

Trump brought the pipeline to a stop. Biden opened it back up.

December 2019:
President Donald Trump has signed a law that will impose sanctions on any firm that helps Russia's state-owned gas company, Gazprom, finish a pipeline into the European Union.
....
The consortium behind Nord Stream 2 confirmed that it would build the pipeline as soon as possible, despite the sanctions.
Nord Stream 2: Trump approves sanctions on Russia gas pipeline

Of course, it should not surprise, (Trump's) sanctions did not work.

The pipeline continued, building continued.

Gazprom just went ahead and built the pipeline. (It's not rocket science, and Gazprom didn't need any help for such an old technology that is so simple)

So, Trump did an attempt, put on a sanction, but a sanction of course could not work.

Biden: put it into German hands -- treated the Germans like adults.

And now the Germans have stood up to be more responsible.

 

[Halbhh]

So if Biden warned them and thought it was a bad idea why did he reverse Trump on Nord Stream 2

Please see post #17 just above.

 

[Halbhh]

So if Biden warned them and thought it was a bad idea why did he reverse Trump on Nord Stream 2

Gazprom just went ahead to continue building when winter ended, in April, anyway, before Biden then responded by changing our strategy to something new (since the old strategy had failed).

First: Gazprom continues building, in April....

then

Second: Biden changes our strategy

U.S. waives sanctions on Nord Stream 2 as Biden seeks to mend Europe ties

But by doing what the Germans wanted, Biden put the responsibility into German hands (and also treated the Germans with more respect, helping relations with Germany).

And now Germany has taken up that responsibility, and stopped the pipeline.

 

[hislegacy]

Gazprom just went ahead to continue building when winter ended, in April

link showing proof of that