Biden Not Doing Well With Regard To COVID

[mark46]

If we'd known Delta was coming, likely more would have been ...

Delta was identified in India in December. By mid-June, the UK had already reviewed the effects of two vaccines against the variant.

We knew that the variant would come almost as soon as it spread a bit in the UK. mid April? mid June?
Why did we need to wait until it was the dominant strain in the US before taking more aggressive action. Did we really think that our extensive COVID measures would keep the Delta variant from entering the US? Let's be clear. Even now, we don't require that airline passengers or employees be vaccinated.

In the law, there is the concept of what someone should have reasonably expected to happen. Certainly, Delta in the US was such certainly by June [I would argue earlier]. We took lots of steps in April 2020. Certainly, many could have been taken in April of 2021.

 

[A_Thinker]

When did we know about the variant?

You suggest that we would have done less than we have done, if the variant hadn't happened. We would have simply accepted a vaccination rate under 50%?

By what miracle did Biden think that the entire world would be rid of COVID before there was a variant. Even without, the disease would have spread in waves, as the world continued to be infected.

The US vaccinated percentage is more than 50%.

I doubt Biden thought that COVID would be vanquished anytime soon, just that Americans (for the most part) would be vaccinated against its ill effects. That's step 1.

Step 2 is funding/supporting a world-wide vaccination effeort that will likely take years to accomplish ...

 

[mark46]

The US vaccinated percentage is more than 50%.

I doubt Biden thought that COVID would be vanquished anytime soon, just that Americans (for the most part) would be vaccinated against its ill effects. That's step 1.

Step 2 is funding/supporting a world-wide vaccination effeort that will likely take years to accomplish ...

It is over 50% because of the steps taken because if the variant. With no variant, there would have been less effort, with results likely a bit below instead a bit above 50%.

European and other countries have had much different, results presumably because their goals and policies were different. After 100 days, Biden all but said "mission accomplished". The reality is that April and May was the time to implement the kinds of steps now being considered. As far as now, I fear that Biden will simply get frustrated, accept a 60% rate or perhaps 65% of the total population, and move on. Many more will get vaccinated in the Democratic states, especially the young.

The Republican states seem unlikely to pass the 50% mark for the total population. The virus will simply continue and continue. Even if everyone in the South get COVID, it isn't clear what their immunity will be to new variants, or how long their immunity will last.

I think that we all understand that the 60% of the willing will demand (and get) new boosters if needed against new variants. This pandemic isn't over for the Democratic states. It is indeed almost over for adults.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So, you point is the people have every right to get sick and deny hospital treatment to others as they fill up the hospitals. I STRONGLY disagree, as do the citizens in at least 40 other countries and many of the US states.

I feel that people Who refused the vaccine are the ones who should be refused treatment.

 

[dogs4thewin]

There just isn't the political will to do much more about COVID-19 in the US. It's due to limits of political ideology and moral imagination on the part of the American public.

Even I have become resigned to the fact that COVID-19 is going to become endemic in the US.

Except that as more places start to have mandates people will have to make a choice. Either you get the vaccine or you do not get to fully participate in society.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I'm not so sure.....I know people who have watched loved ones die and still refuse to be vaccinated.

It may depend on who the loved one is for some people, too.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Yes, people have the right to decline a medical procedure, treatment, or vaccine. They have a right to take their chances with an extremely survivable virus they have been working in and around and inhaling daily for a year and a half now.

They also have a right to get vaccinated against Covid-19 if they want to. They have a right to get any future booster shots, too. They have a right to get vaccinated for any reason at all, if that is what they want, and if that is what they feel will keep them and their loved ones healthiest.

The vaccine mandates are not necessary. At all. They are cruel, unnecessary attempts to see how much people will put up with or comply with when threatened, forced, and blackmailed. The vaccine mandates have nothing to do with science, health, or genuine concern for people. At all.

Now some churches and even Vatican City is requiring electronic proof of vaccination to enter. Christ, have mercy. This is no longer about public health. Masks and spacing out, sure. But not this. I am so, so sorry that more people can’t see this.

With all due respect it is not like vaccine mandates are new.

 

[A_Thinker]

It is over 50% because of the steps taken because if the variant. With no variant, there would have been less effort, with results likely a bit below instead a bit above 50%.

European and other countries have had much different, results presumably because their goals and policies were different. After 100 days, Biden all but said "mission accomplished". The reality is that April and May was the time to implement the kinds of steps now being considered. As far as now, I fear that Biden will simply get frustrated, accept a 60% rate or perhaps 65% of the total population, and move on. Many more will get vaccinated in the Democratic states, especially the young.

The Republican states seem unlikely to pass the 50% mark for the total population. The virus will simply continue and continue. Even if everyone in the South get COVID, it isn't clear what their immunity will be to new variants, or how long their immunity will last.

I think that we all understand that the 60% of the willing will demand (and get) new boosters if needed against new variants. This pandemic isn't over for the Democratic states. It is indeed almost over for adults.

In today's America, the complicating issue is our emphasis on freedom.

And we've had a particularly polarizing demonstration of willfulness from the highest American governmental office. Many are taking that as their cue to be noncooperative.

205 million adult Americans have had, at least, one shot. These are likely to end up being fully vaccinated. That's about 220 million, or two-thirds of adults. There's another 45 million Americans under 12, of which 25-30 million will likely be vaccinated. So you get to at least 250 million.

Finally, 100 million are impacted by the Biden mandates. If 40 million of these are vaccinated, then we're at 290 million vaccinated ... or 88% of 330 million Americans. That's likely what we're shooting for ...

 

[dogs4thewin]

But this isn’t small pox. Or polio.

We have been told that vaccinated people can’t contract Covid, and can’t pass it to others. Oh, whoops, that’s wrong. Well, you won’t get seriously ill. Oh, no, wait, some folks are. And you can’t get Delta! No, wait, you can, and can even wind up in the hospital, and die from it. Hmm, well… oh, well! Stay tuned for more promises, data, graphs, charts, numbers, and press conferences!

We don’t see this weirdness with polio, smallpox, or mmr. You just get your shot as a kid, and you’re good. It’s completely different.

No vaccine is 100% that means that you will have some bad outcomes.

 

[A_Thinker]

After the vaccine was discovered and administered in a modern medical context, beating smallpox took less than 200 years, globally.

Smallpox plagued mankind ... and was innoculated against ... since the days of the Pharaohs ...

 

[dogs4thewin]

That’s a good question, and my point about having a mask and hand sanitizer is not to complain, as much as it is to point out that for months, that was enough. No one sent us home, got us ppe, or quarantined us for weeks or months. We carried on. Many of us contracted the virus, and some were seriously ill. We carried on, and kept stocking, and kept working in the freezers.

Was this really that big a deal? Did it really warrant shut downs and mandates? Because none of us, aged 17-74 got the memo, you know? We just kept working. Because, of course, people need food. So, if we were so essential that we could work in and within a pandemic, get sick, and recover, and come back to work pre-vaccines and with minimal protection, could you understand how at least some of us are a little skeptical of the sudden necessity of measures we worked without?

You cannot work with something that does not exist. Now a vaccine does exist so it is reasonable and perfectly legal to require it.

 

[FireDragon76]

The political will?

There are dozens of actions that can be taken by the administration without any congressional votes, unless they have enough votes to overcome a veto of any restrictions of Biden's actions. This was done a few times with Trump.

Yes, Biden would take political heat, especially in Republican states. So?

As Napoleon Bonaparte said, "When your enemy is making a mistake, do not interfere with him". Massive deaths among their constituents is what Republican governors seem to want.

 

[dogs4thewin]

As Napoleon Bonaparte said, "When your enemy is making a mistake, do not interfere with him". Massive deaths among their constituents is what Republican governors seem to want.

Or do they want to let people make their own decisions?

 

[Hans Blaster]

That’s a good question, and my point about having a mask and hand sanitizer is not to complain, as much as it is to point out that for months, that was enough. No one sent us home, got us ppe, or quarantined us for weeks or months. We carried on. Many of us contracted the virus, and some were seriously ill. We carried on, and kept stocking, and kept working in the freezers.

I hope they didn't force you to work if you'd been infected. That would be dangerous to you, your co-workers, and the customers.

Was this really that big a deal? Did it really warrant shut downs and mandates? Because none of us, aged 17-74 got the memo, you know? We just kept working. Because, of course, people need food. So, if we were so essential that we could work in and within a pandemic, get sick, and recover, and come back to work pre-vaccines and with minimal protection, could you understand how at least some of us are a little skeptical of the sudden necessity of measures we worked without?

Though you may have not realized it beforehand (nor did many of us) -- you were essential. The work you did had to continue. Other people in jobs that seemed similar found out their work was equally unessential and their workplaces were just shut down and they were sent home with no pay. Other were sent to work from home. Schools were closed, etc.

In the early days, the best that we could do was to limit the number and duration of our contacts with strangers. As things went on we learned and improved our information. We could then improve our responses. When we realized that simple cloth masks could keep a lot of virus particles out of the air and thus out of peoples lungs and they also provided some protection against breathing in the viruses that did happen to be in the air.

The biggest protection for you and your coworkers last year was the day that every one in the store was required to wear a mask.

Our knowledge and our tools keep improving, and so our best practices will keep changing. (The virus also keeps mutating, so those mutations may, and have, create nastier versions.)

The vaccine is far better at preventing me from infection than my mask ever was. And if I don't get infected, I can't transmit the virus. If I should get infected, the vaccine will likely reduce the amount of virus I transmit or time that I transmit virus. It may or may not be better than the mask at that task, but this is a good case for continuing to use the mask until community infection rates go down a lot. (Again, if my vaccine prevents the infection, I can't transmit at all.)

The vaccines are safe and effective and they really do work. They aren't perfect (no vaccine is or ever was) and some people's immune system may not react sufficiently to it to provide protection, but this is why we need as many people to be vaccinated as possible. The more people who take the vaccine, the better protected we all will be.

 

[pitabread]

No, it wouldn’t. This thing will just keep mutating.

While it's true that viruses do mutate, by sustainably reducing rates of transmission, we can dramatically reduce the amount of virus out there. Which in turn substantially reduces the opportunity for the virus to mutate in ways that could escape vaccines.

And even with mutations, we've seen that vaccines still can dramatically reduce risk of infection.

This is not a reason to not get vaccinated.

How is it that in the 21st Century, there is so much uncertainty, inability to figure out what will and will not definitely work, and walking back every promise or hard fact they present? It’s odd.

No, it's science. Science works with imperfect information. Especially in the context of a novel virus.

That doesn't mean we can't use science to come up with useful courses of direction and understanding. Disregarding science just because it isn't perfect is silly.

Something is up here, Pita. And it’s got nothing to do with a virus.

Conspiracy theory forum is that-a-way --> Conspiracy Theories

Pray, hope, don’t panic.

Praying and hoping doesn't do anything. Getting vaccinated does.

And this isn't panic; it's frustration. Frustration at a portion of the population that whether by ignorance or malice is actively keeping the pandemic going.

The pandemic is optional. The pro-Covid crowd is ensuring it will continue.

 

[Nithavela]

???

The leaders in 40 other countries have figured out that they need to do more than plead with the public to get vaccinated.

My guess is that there were those in every one of those 40 countries who didn't want to be vaccinated. If Portugal can have 85% of its citizens fully vaccinated, then just PERHAPS the US might do better.

Over here in germany, a gas station attendend was gunned down because he reminded someone to wear a mask while in a gas station.

I shudder to think what kind of violent reaction the US public would be prone to when pushed in such a way.

 

[iluvatar5150]

But this isn’t small pox. Or polio.

We have been told that vaccinated people can’t contract Covid, and can’t pass it to others. Oh, whoops, that’s wrong. Well, you won’t get seriously ill. Oh, no, wait, some folks are. And you can’t get Delta! No, wait, you can, and can even wind up in the hospital, and die from it. Hmm, well… oh, well! Stay tuned for more promises, data, graphs, charts, numbers, and press conferences!

We don’t see this weirdness with polio, smallpox, or mmr. You just get your shot as a kid, and you’re good. It’s completely different.

The polio and smallpox vaccines both have efficacy rates around 90-95%, which is comparable to early results for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. MMR is a couple points lower. Lots of vaccines need boosters: tdap, for example, can require a new shot every 10 years.

You say the behavior of these covid vaccines is odd, but I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Over here in germany, a gas station attendend was gunned down because he reminded someone to wear a mask while in a gas station.

I shudder to think what kind of violent reaction the US public would be prone to when pushed in such a way.

that has happened here in the early days, but not very often.

 

[cow451]

In today's America, the complicating issue is our emphasis on freedom.

And we've had a particularly polarizing demonstration of willfulness from the highest American governmental office. Many are taking that as their cue to be noncooperative.

205 million adult Americans have had, at least, one shot. These are likely to end up being fully vaccinated. That's about 220 million, or two-thirds of adults. There's another 45 million Americans under 12, of which 25-30 million will likely be vaccinated. So you get to at least 250 million.

Finally, 100 million are impacted by the Biden mandates. If 40 million of these are vaccinated, then we're at 290 million vaccinated ... or 88% of 330 million Americans. That's likely what we're shooting for ...

With increasing freedom comes increasing responsibility. Many Americans are showing they want great personal freedom without the responsibility.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The US vaccinated percentage is more than 50%.

I doubt Biden thought that COVID would be vanquished anytime soon, just that Americans (for the most part) would be vaccinated against its ill effects. That's step 1.

Step 2 is funding/supporting a world-wide vaccination effeort that will likely take years to accomplish ...

What are you talking about?

The vaccinated still get infected and vaccine efficacy goes down dramatically at 6 months.

Currently there's no scenario where vaccines end Covid. What you have is a temporary bandage.