I am in search of is biblical answers. In the Bible, it is clearly stated that sex is meant for two people (of opposited genders) who are committed only to each other for the rest of their lives. Is pre-marrital sex a sin when two consenting adults are engaged to be married? What if they would already be married if it were not for the financial strain a wedding entails? We decided to wait to get married, after he gets his masters and is able to work full time as a phycist. Then we can finally move in together as man and wife. In my opinion, it is not a sin, because we have clearly made a commitment toward each other. When biblically, is it okay to have sex? Are two people considered married, after paying a hugh sum of money and physically walking down an aisle, or are two people considered married when they decide to make that one in a lifetime commitment?
Biblically speaking, when are two people considered married?
- Thread starter morethanrubies
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alwayz_remember_Calvery
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Can't you go the the courthouse and be legally married now and when you have the finances, hold the "traditional" wedding ceramony?
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HisLittleHazelnut
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morethanrubies said:
Thank you for bringing this up. There are places where it says "Isaac took Rebekah and she became his wife" and stuff like that. No mention of a ceremony or a piece of paper or anything like that.
God says to let our yes be yes and our no be no. When we intend to marry someone we make a commitment to them and if you break it that is a sin, I believe. Notice the guy asks "Will you marry me?" and the girl says yes. The girl has then entered that commitment just by her word. And the guy has entered it by asking the question and receiving her affirmative answer.
I will send you a PM about what my fiance and I did about this situation.
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FaithfulServant
The Lord directs my steps
The Bible says to follow the laws of the land.....so you will be married when you go to the courthouse and get your marriage license. Then you may have sex. lol 
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HisLittleHazelnut
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So if the laws of the land say gay marriage is okay, then they can have sex?
Marriage was a God-ordained institution. Governments cannot create a marriage, because God is the one who defines it to begin with.
Marriage was a God-ordained institution. Governments cannot create a marriage, because God is the one who defines it to begin with.
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we are to follow the lands of the law UNLESS IT GOES AGAINST GOD'S LAW. same sex marriage is obviously not God's law. As long as the law of the land does not try to go above God's law then we must obey. you are not married in God's eyes until you are legally married, BECAUSE WE ARE TO FOLLOW THE LAWS OF THE LAND. it doesn't matter whether or not you make a commitment to each other. no where in the bible does it say anything about commitments being an okay to have sex. sex is meant for husband and wife. 1 cor. 7:8-9 proves this:
"But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion"
this means that sex outside of marriage is a sin.
and 1 corinthians &:1-2 says:
"to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband"
it doesn't say "let every man have his own fiance and every woman her own."
"But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion"
this means that sex outside of marriage is a sin.
and 1 corinthians &:1-2 says:
"to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband"
it doesn't say "let every man have his own fiance and every woman her own."
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FaithfulServant
The Lord directs my steps
Come on, please don't turn this into a gay marriage debate. The girl came in here asking a serious question, seeking guidance. If you'd like to start an argument about this, please create a new thread somewhere else....whereever that type of topic belongs......
To the OP: basically it is going to come down to whether or not you believe we have to biblically respect the laws of the land. Like ChildofGod said, we are not to obey them if they go against God's laws. There are some people on CF who hardcore believe you don't have to have a marriage license to have sex...a lot of this stems from gay marriage being allowed. It is for you to decide how you feel about it.
You say y'all can't get married because of financial concerns but it doesn't cost much to obtain a marriage license. You can run down to the courthouse today! You don't need a fancy expensive wedding, although if you want you can always have one later
To the OP: basically it is going to come down to whether or not you believe we have to biblically respect the laws of the land. Like ChildofGod said, we are not to obey them if they go against God's laws. There are some people on CF who hardcore believe you don't have to have a marriage license to have sex...a lot of this stems from gay marriage being allowed. It is for you to decide how you feel about it.
You say y'all can't get married because of financial concerns but it doesn't cost much to obtain a marriage license. You can run down to the courthouse today!
You don't need a fancy expensive wedding, although if you want you can always have one later
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HisLittleHazelnut
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Here's an article full of factoids that was posted elsewhere:
Before or after the wedding?
This shows the point I was making.
In addition:
In the OT, you will see that adultery (married person with another person, married or non) was punishable by death, pre-marital sex (where the girl was NOT betrothed) was punishable by the man having to offer to marry the girl, and between betrothed couples.... NO RECORD. It's just as if they chose to consumate their marriage early.
If you bring up the idea of Joseph wanting to divorce Mary because she was pregnant... this was because it wasn't HIS child. Not the fact that she was pregnant. If he had been the father, their marriage would have been consumated already.
Also, the word in the NT translated "fornication" did not originally include pre-marital sex. True, it is said it is better to marry than to burn (with passion) but then again back then marriage started with the BETROTHAL. I understand that the betrothal ideal was to keep apart for some time for preparation, however there seems to have been no punishment if they did end up consumating it early because they were already bound together through their vows (which were taken at betrothal.)
Our modern-day engagement can be broken if the couple chooses to do so. I do not think that this was ever supposed to be the case. Thus, my fiance and I decided that the only basis for us breaking off the engagement would be the grounds for a biblical divorce, and only if we could not reconcile.
So in essence what I am saying is:
1) Sex between a dating relationship (where they haven't yet made a commitment to each other for life) is wrong.
2) Sex in an engagement where they have not set biblical grounds for breaking it off (biblical grounds for divorce) is wrong.
3) An engagement that has set biblical grounds for breaking off the relationship is actually a betrothal. They have made a commitment to each other for life.
4) In such a case, there seems to be no penalty for having sex. They just consumated their marriage early.
6) I am not saying that legal marriage is not a necessity, because if a couple makes this commitment to each other they should have no qualms about making it a legal marriage as they have the resources to do so.
Just my $0.10 I guess.
Before or after the wedding?
This shows the point I was making.
In addition:
In the OT, you will see that adultery (married person with another person, married or non) was punishable by death, pre-marital sex (where the girl was NOT betrothed) was punishable by the man having to offer to marry the girl, and between betrothed couples.... NO RECORD. It's just as if they chose to consumate their marriage early.
If you bring up the idea of Joseph wanting to divorce Mary because she was pregnant... this was because it wasn't HIS child. Not the fact that she was pregnant. If he had been the father, their marriage would have been consumated already.
Also, the word in the NT translated "fornication" did not originally include pre-marital sex. True, it is said it is better to marry than to burn (with passion) but then again back then marriage started with the BETROTHAL. I understand that the betrothal ideal was to keep apart for some time for preparation, however there seems to have been no punishment if they did end up consumating it early because they were already bound together through their vows (which were taken at betrothal.)
Our modern-day engagement can be broken if the couple chooses to do so. I do not think that this was ever supposed to be the case. Thus, my fiance and I decided that the only basis for us breaking off the engagement would be the grounds for a biblical divorce, and only if we could not reconcile.
So in essence what I am saying is:
1) Sex between a dating relationship (where they haven't yet made a commitment to each other for life) is wrong.
2) Sex in an engagement where they have not set biblical grounds for breaking it off (biblical grounds for divorce) is wrong.
3) An engagement that has set biblical grounds for breaking off the relationship is actually a betrothal. They have made a commitment to each other for life.
4) In such a case, there seems to be no penalty for having sex. They just consumated their marriage early.
6) I am not saying that legal marriage is not a necessity, because if a couple makes this commitment to each other they should have no qualms about making it a legal marriage as they have the resources to do so.
Just my $0.10 I guess.
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Revenwyn said:
first of all, BACK THEN a lot of things were different. their whole society was different than ours. for example, they married at VERY young ages (12 and 13 years old sometimes) Would we even think of this today? no. just because betrothal back then was a legally binding relationship does not mean that betrothal (or engagement) now is a legally binding relationship. those are the laws of THEIR land and THEIR time, not ours. And while it was a legally binding relationship, it still didn't allow them to have sex before actually being married. and when people bring up how the Bible says "and Isaac to Rebekkah and she became his wife" you have to understand that this is the way it was in their society. this is how they became married. our society is different. if you live somewhere that it is not required to sign a legal document in order to be legally married then that is perfectly fine. but in the US and in most societies we do have to sign legal documents and we must obey this because this is the law of the land.
and just because something went unpunished does not mean it was okay. God doesn't punish every single thing that we do. in the old testament people practiced polygamy. was this what God intended in the beginning when he created Adam and Eve? no. but He still doesn't punish them for it. we sin so often that it would be ridiculous for God to punish us every time we sin. it's also important to understand that all of the stuff that happened in Genesis was before they had the laws from Moses. So they didn't have many guidelines to go by what was right and what was wrong.
one last thing....the Bible says that we are supposed to be Holy and different from the world. So if the world is preaching that it is ok to have sex outside of marriage then we should set an example by being different. can you imagine what the world would be like if everyone had sex when they were engaged? even if it were ok to have sex while you are engaged, there would be a ton of people getting engaged to people they weren't really meant to marry just so they could have sex. we need to be examples and stand out against worldly activities.
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shinbits
Well-Known Member
In the time of Moses, two people were considered married when a pledge was made.
The Bible mentions death, as the penalty for a woman who breaks a vow to marry someone else, by sleeping around before she marries that person. So even though the girl didn't consumate the marriage, just breaking that vow meant death, for her and the man caught sleeping with her.
At the same time, in the books of Moses, there's no mention of any kind of penalty, if the girl sleeps with a man, but isn't married or betrothed to a man. This means that the simple act of sex does not qualify as marriage.
It is the covenant that God values.
The Bible mentions death, as the penalty for a woman who breaks a vow to marry someone else, by sleeping around before she marries that person. So even though the girl didn't consumate the marriage, just breaking that vow meant death, for her and the man caught sleeping with her.
At the same time, in the books of Moses, there's no mention of any kind of penalty, if the girl sleeps with a man, but isn't married or betrothed to a man. This means that the simple act of sex does not qualify as marriage.
It is the covenant that God values.
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HisLittleHazelnut
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ChildOfGod20 said:
We have worse within Christian circles. We have people who shouldn't be getting married getting married just because they want to have sex.
Also, who are governments to set rules and restrictions on what is a God-ordained institution? They can't. Only God can. They can have their "marriage" but it's not a God-ordained thing: it's just for matters of state. If you think about it hard, I'm sure you have heard of plenty of "marriages" that God would probably not say are marriages. They marry for pleasure of the here and now and divorce when things start to go rough. And getting married just for the sex (as many young Christians have a tendency to do) is just wrong.
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HisLittleHazelnut
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I wasn't intending to say that just sleeping around consituted a marriage. I was saying that it was the covenant that God values. And a man enters into that covenant the minute the woman says that she will marry him, and the woman enters it the minute she says yes.shinbits said:
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I had already reached a dicission before posting, but I also was curious about how other feel about the topic. I am not trying to justify or logic, we had a long talk that day and reached a conclusion. We getting legally married, then moving in together, and after school having a wedding. Getting married, but not living together just won't seem right. I'm not trying to find a "Loophole" we have been engaged for a long time, and the main reasons we are already married is financial (both full time college students working part time jobs) and the fact that my mother is very ill, and I believe suicidal, leaving her "behind" could be devasting.
20) For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21) Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
Some may try to condemn me saying I'm an unchristian evil fornicator, but my heart does not condemn me. We have spend many hours in prayer, and we believe that decision is moral.
Thank you for your feedback, it is greatly appreciated.
20) For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21) Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
Some may try to condemn me saying I'm an unchristian evil fornicator, but my heart does not condemn me. We have spend many hours in prayer, and we believe that decision is moral.
Thank you for your feedback, it is greatly appreciated.
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invisiblebabe
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Revenwyn said:
What about those who get engaged long before a proposal, or without a proposal?
Engagement isn't necessarily when the guy asks and the girl says yes; it is when they both agree they will marry at a certain date. And, even with a proposal, the guy is asking, "Will you marry me," implied at a date in the future, rather than "Will you be married to me starting right now?"
kayli
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HisLittleHazelnut
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With us it was the second one. At this state in a relationship there is no turning back. It is permanent. I would also be one to say I was betrothed rather than engaged.invisiblebabe said:What about those who get engaged long before a proposal, or without a proposal?
Engagement isn't necessarily when the guy asks and the girl says yes; it is when they both agree they will marry at a certain date. And, even with a proposal, the guy is asking, "Will you marry me," implied at a date in the future, rather than "Will you be married to me starting right now?"
kayli
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invisiblebabe
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Revenwyn said:
I can see where you're coming from, although then my ex fiance would be more of an ex husband (although there was no official proposal, just a CZ ring and a definite planned wedding date that everyone and their dogs knew about). I don't see it that way in my situation at all, although I do agree that the ideal way is that engagement = permanent commitment.
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betrothal means the same as engagement. betrothed is used in the king james version and engaged is used in the niv. theres no differnence
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I feel that this is a very hard subject it is one that I struggle with so much. We are devoted to eachother the only things we don't do are live in the same house or sleep together. we spend nearly all of our free time together. Nearly everyday I think about how much I wish we could be married now, not wholly to do with sex although I am sure that is part of it but because I want to share everything in my life with him. At the moment I am actually unhappy because I don't feel complete because we are not married. But we simply cannot afford to get a house together and furnish it and p0ay for all the other things that go with it.
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i have felt the same as you for the past 2 years. sometimes i would drive myself crazy just thinking about how much i wanted to be married but couldn't. but lately i have begun to learn that I need patience and self control. after all, they are the fruits of the spirit.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control.
I have learned that when it is time for us to be married, God will let us know. and He knows best. so instead of thinking about how much i want to be married, i focus on the fact that God knows when we should be married and he'll let us know. its actually a relief to know that when He tells us to get married i will know that everything will work out because it will be in his timing. i just need to have patience. and until then i should focus on the time that we have together as a dating couple. and i should focus on being the person that God wants me to be. that will greatly prepare me for marriage. its really a whole different mindset that i had to get into.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control.
I have learned that when it is time for us to be married, God will let us know. and He knows best. so instead of thinking about how much i want to be married, i focus on the fact that God knows when we should be married and he'll let us know. its actually a relief to know that when He tells us to get married i will know that everything will work out because it will be in his timing. i just need to have patience. and until then i should focus on the time that we have together as a dating couple. and i should focus on being the person that God wants me to be. that will greatly prepare me for marriage. its really a whole different mindset that i had to get into.
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