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Biblical 'time' statements of the 'end'

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Justme, Jan 3, 2005.

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  1. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi Forum,
    I did a cut and paste from a thread on unorthodox theology.

    This is a list of 'time' statements concerning the end times story from the bible. Here there are no explanations, interpretations or opinions of any verses, just the verses which have some kind of connection to end time or the coming or whatever.

    Maybe it will save some of you some 'looking around for verses' time.

    Justme

    1. "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:2)

    2. "Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?" (Matt. 3:7)

    3. "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees." (Matt. 3:10)

    4. "His winnowing fork is in His hand." (Matt. 3:12)

    5. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 4:17)

    6. "The kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 10:7)

    7. "You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes." (Matt. 10:23)

    8. "....the age about to come." (Matt. 12:32)

    9. "The Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds." (Matt. 16:27)

    10. "There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (Matt. 16:28; cf. Mk. 9:1; Lk. 9:27)

    11. "'When the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?' '....He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers, who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.' '....Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it.' ....When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Matt. 21:40-41,43,45)

    12. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34)

    13. "From now on, you [Caiaphas, the chief priests, the scribes, the elders, the whole Sanhedrin] shall be seeing the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Matt. 26:64; Mk. 14:62; Lk. 22:**)

    14. "The kingdom of God is at hand." (Mk. 1:15)

    15. "What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vine-growers, and will give the vineyard to others. ....They [the chief priests, scribes and elders] understood that He spoke the parable against them." (Mk. 12:9,12)

    16. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Mk. 13:30)

    17. “Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?” (Lk. 3:7)

    18. “The axe is already laid at the root of the trees. " (Lk. 3:9)

    19. "His winnowing fork is in His hand…." (Lk. 3:17)

    20. “The kingdom of God has come near to you.” (Lk. 10:9)

    21. “The kingdom of God has come near.” (Lk. 10:11)

    22. “What, therefore, will the owner of the vineyard do to them? He will come and destroy these vine-growers and will give the vineyard to others." …The scribes and the chief priests …understood that He spoke this parable against them.” (Lk. 20:15-16,19)

    23. “These are days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Lk. 21:22)

    24. "This generation will not pass away until all things take place.” (Lk. 21:32)

    25. "Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.' Then they will begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us,' and to the hills, 'Cover us.'” (Lk. 23:28-30; Compare Rev. 6:14-17)

    26. "We were hoping that He was the One who is about to redeem Israel.” (Lk. 24:21)

    27. "I will come to you. …In that Day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.' …'Lord, what then has happened that You are about to disclose Yourself to us, and not to the world?'" (Jn. 14:18,20,22)

    28. "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?" (Jn. 21:22)

    29. “This is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: 'And it shall be in the last days…'” (Acts 2:16-17)

    30. “He has fixed a day in which He is about to judge the world in righteousness…” (Acts 17:31)

    31. “There is about to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.” (Acts 24:15)

    32. “As he was discussing righteousness, self-control and the judgment about to come…" (Acts 24:25)

    33. “Not for [Abraham's] sake only was it written, that [faith] was reckoned to him [as righteousness], but for our sake also, to whom it is about to be reckoned.” (Rom. 4:23-24)

    34. “If you are living according to the flesh, you are about to die.” (Rom. 8:13)

    35. “I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us.” (Rom. 8:18)

    36. "It is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand." (Rom. 13:11-12)

    37. “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Rom. 16:20)

    38. “The time has been shortened.” (I Cor. 7:29)

    39. “The form of this world is passing away.” (I Cor. 7:31)

    40. “Now these things …were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.” (I Cor. 10:11)

    41. “We shall not all fall sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.” (I Cor. 15:51-52)

    42. "Maranatha!" [The Lord comes!] (I Cor. 16:22)

    43. "...not only in this age, but also in the one about to come.” (Eph. 1:21)

    44. “The Lord is near.” (Phil. 4:5)

    45. "The gospel …was proclaimed in all creation under heaven." (Col. 1:23; Compare Matt. 24:14; Rom. 10:18; 16:26; Col. 1:5-6; II Tim. 4:17; Rev. 14:6-7; cf. I Clement 5,7)

    46. “…things which are a shadow of what is about to come.” (Col. 2:16-17)

    47. “…we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord… …We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds… …You, brethren, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief.” (I Thess. 4:15,17; 5:4)

    48. “May your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Thess. 5:23)

    49. “It is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire.” (II Thess. 1:6-7) [published by PreteristArchive.com]

    50. “Godliness …holds promise for the present life and that which is about to come.” (I Tim. 4:8)

    51. “I charge you …that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Tim. 6:14)

    52. “…storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for that which is about to come, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.” (I Tim. 6:19)

    53. “In the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self… …Avoid these men. For of these are those who enter into households and captivate weak women… …These also oppose the truth… …But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all…” (II Tim. 3:1-2,5-6,8-9)

    54. “I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is about to judge the living and the dead…” (II Tim. 4:1)

    55. “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son.” (Heb. 1:1-2)

    56. “Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who are about to inherit salvation?” (Heb. 1:14)

    57. “He did not subject to angels the world about to come.” (Heb. 2:5)

    58. “…and have tasted …the powers of the age about to come.” (Heb. 6:5)

    59. "For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near a curse, and it's end is for burning.” (Heb. 6:7-8)

    60. “When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.” (Heb. 8:13)

    61. “The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way of the [heavenly] Holy Places has not yet been revealed, while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.” (Heb. 9:8-10; Compare Gal. 4:19; Eph. 2:21-22; 3:17; 4:13)

    62. “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 9:11)

    63. “Now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin.” (Heb. 9:26)

    64. “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things about to come…” (Heb. 10:1)

    65. “…as you see the Day drawing near.” (Heb. 10:25)

    66. “…the fury of a fire which is about to consume the adversaries.” (Heb. 10:27)

    67. “For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay.” (Heb. 10:37)

    68. “For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the one that is about to come.” (Heb. 13:14)

    **. "Speak and so act, as those who are about to be judged by the law of liberty." (Jms. 2:12)

    70. “Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. …It is in the last days that you have stored up your treasure!” (Jms. 5:1,3)

    71. “Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.” (Jms. 5:7)

    72. “You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.” (Jms. 5:8)

    73. “…salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” (I Peter 1:6)

    74. “He …has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.” (I Peter 1:20)

    75. “They shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.” (I Peter 4:5)

    76. “The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.” (I Peter 4:7)

    77. "For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God.” (I Peter 4:17)

    78. “…as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is about to be revealed.” (I Peter 5:1)

    79. “We have the prophetic word …which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the Day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.” (II Peter 1:19)

    80. “Their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” (II Peter 2:3)

    81. “In the last days mockers will come. …For this they willingly are ignorant of…” (I Peter 3:3,5)

    82. “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God.” (II Peter 3:10-12)

    83. “The darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.” (I Jn. 2:8)

    84. “The world is passing away, and its desires.” (I Jn. 2:17)

    85. “It is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18)

    86. “Even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18; Compare Matt. 24:23-34)

    87. “This is that of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.” (I Jn. 4:3; Compare II Thess. 2:7)

    88. “For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation. …About these also Enoch …prophesied, saying, 'Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly…'” (Jude 1:4,14-15)

    89. “But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, that they were saying to you, 'In the last time there shall be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.' These are the ones who cause divisions…” (Jude 1:17-19)

    90. “…to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 1:1)

    91. “The time is near.” (Rev. 1:3)

    92. “Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.” (Rev. 2:25)

    93. “I also will keep you from the hour of testing which is about to come upon the whole world.” (Rev. 3:10)

    94. “I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 3:11)

    95. “And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron.” (Rev. 12:5)

    96. "And in her [the Great City Babylon] was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth." (Rev. 18:24; Compare Matt. 23:35-36; Lk. 11:50-51)

    97. “…to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 22:6)

    98. "Behold, I am coming quickly. " (Rev. 22:7)

    99. "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." (Rev. 22:10; Compare Dan. 8:26)

    100. "Behold, I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 22:12)

    101. "Yes, I am coming quickly." (Rev. 22:20)
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. brother daniel

    brother daniel Well-Known Member

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    :amen: Thank you Justme, I have read all those verses many times and reading them today was as fresh and tasty as the first.
    It is the Holy Ghost that is leading our study.
    Jesus/Jahashua is Lord/Yahovah

     
  3. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi

    Yes all those verses say that the Kingdom is near or is at hand………………However what you miss is the whole picture.......................

    First the Expression "at hand" or “comes quickly”............is not meant to be viewed in Human terms

    Jesus said those things before his death in 26 or 27 AD..................Yet we find that over forty years later ................The AT Hand ...was still......NOT AT HAND.........................People started saying silly things like God is not True his words are not true ........he said quickly and here it is going on 50 YEARS later and it is still not Here............................

    Peter explains to them that to God at hand does not mean what it means to you and me.....................that it could be thousands of years away.

    2 Peter 3:7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

    Here Peter PLAINLY SAYS that the CROSS was Not Judgement day or the end of the age.

    In Addition Peter tells us do not use such terms to insist God is slack………………..clearly they saw these verse s you quote as proof God was slack or not keeping his words…………………

    8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    Look at # 86 for Example……………………………Just me wrote……………………….. 85. “It is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18)

    So we are to assume by this that in one hour Jesus was murdered and the kingdom came……………..This is just nonsense to use such verses in this manner………………………NOTHING happened in the next Hour……….so did Jesus lie……….well of Course not ………..

    First off it does not say HOUR………….it says Time……………and as anyone who has studied prophecy knows a Time is a Year……………….not an hour……………………and if it is a time that means a day for a year…………………….so under prophetic interpretation this verses says that it will be over 300 years before this event happens

    So what we are told in this verse is that Anti Christi is here Now……IE: 1st century…………………….in fact there are many of Them………………………………but the Spirit of AC will not Totally take over the Church for a time………………………..

    18: Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    This whole verse has to do with People Who said they are Christian but then leave the Truth to start their own version of Christianity……………..they deny the truth John says ……………….Now if the Last “time: began at the Cross……because he says they are IN IT……….then that means sometime by the mid fourth century the Spirit of the AC will take over Christian doctrine.

    This is confirmed in revelation here

    Rev 2:22: Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

    The Other thing you neglect is this

    We who are in Christ have the promise IN THIS LIFE.....................

    1Tm:4:8: For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

    However we also have the promise OF THAT WHICH IS TO COME.........ie the Kingdom of God on Earth and the First resurrection a future event when Jesus will do this.

    Isaiah 2:4: And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

    Which is the Same event as This

    Rev 20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Which leads us right back to some verses you missed…………….

    Mt:19:28: And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Lk:22:30: That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Peter and Paul both make it clear the Last days is a future Generation that will see these things

    2Tm:3:1: This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come………………..Well lest see Christians were being murdered en Masse……………….By both Jews and Romans………………..yet Paul says perilous times WILL come ……not are Here BUT WILL COME.

    Notice what the signs are....................and notice it is not the destruction of the Temple.........

    2: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

    I think we all know when this all started and EVEN PAUL KNEW IT WAS NOT IN HIS DAY.

    Peter also understood it was a different Generation and a different time a distant time

    2 Peter 3:3: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

    Here too we notice he says ther SHALL COME…..not is now………but shall come………………IN THE LAST DAYS .meaning not the days he was in but a future time.

    Only when we look at the whole picture do these things come to light and the False doctrine of Amill and preterism is just that false Doctrines that would come to Christianity. Deniying the Prophets and the Words of God. instead claiming they are the kingdom of God the Bride..the Wife.the Queen of heaven.
     
  4. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi Just the Facts,

    I won't deal with your post on a per sentence basis because it would get a bit long.

    I would like to pick out a few special parts and see if you want to hang in there with your 'consistancy.'

    H
    So when is NOW in this statement?
    John 5
    25I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live

    You can use this one just to sharpen your theory....
    John 4
    23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks

    Her is another sharpener and you can use it to determine this 'world being preached to' thing as well.

    Acts 17:6
    But when they did not find them, they dragged Jason and some other brothers before the city officials, shouting: “These men who have caused trouble all over the world have now come here,

    Here is one more:
    Romans 13
    11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.

    Do you realize how much nearer it would have been if the writer of Romans was referring to 2000 years down the road???? Point zero zero two percent nearer. Whoopie ding.

    I guess you realize that when people like Peter, Paul, and others wrote their stuff that was eventually used in the bible it WAS BEFORE 70 AD and therefore they would have to write it as future to them whether it was about 2010 AD or 70 AD.

    That is enough about NOW.

    Yes, these were missed from that list and rightly so. These do not refer to any time statements of the 'end' or whatever.

    Yes, you are right, Paul never said "THEY ARE HERE" and why wouldn't he? MAYBE because when he wrote it they weren't!

    Don't include me in your group who believes your stuff.
    If Paul didn't 'think'( hey, Paul was inspired, what's this guessing at the word of God) it was in his day why did he write?

    1 Thess 4
    15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep

    OR
    1 Cor 15
    51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed–

    As you explain the WE in this sentence make sure you explain how Jesus is writing to fellow believers and they will EITHER not sleep or they will be CHANGED. Paul is in there and 'they' are in there, there is absolutely not one iota of a slim possibility that there is 2000 years in this little sentence.

    Why don't you deal with just one more verse in that timing list:
    Hebrews 9
    26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

    But reconcile that verse with your statement of:

    Which ties into this verse from the list:
    Luke 21
    32“I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened

    Justme
     
  5. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    I suppose these verses are "the exception that proves the rule"?

    Matt 26:18
    And He said, "Go into the city to a certain man, and say to him, 'The Teacher says, "My time is at hand; I will keep the Passover at your house with My disciples."

    Matt 26:45
    Then He came to His disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners.

    Matt 26:46
    Rise, let us be going. See, My betrayer is at hand."

    Mark 14:42
    Rise, let us be going. See, My betrayer is at hand."

    John 2:13
    Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem

    John 7:2
    Now the Jews' Feast of Tabernacles was at hand.

    2 Tim 4:6
    For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand

    2 Tim 4:9
    Be diligent to come to me quickly

    Rev. 11:14
    The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly


    Sure JTF, If you ignore context.

    Regarding a daily event , such as breakfast, 15 minutes prior, the event would be "at hand" while 1 hour prior it would not be.

    Regarding a weekly event such as the sabbath, 1 day prior would be "at hand" while 3 days prior, it would not be.

    Regarding a monthly event such as the full moon, 1 week prior , could be considered "at hand" while 2 weeks prior it would not.

    Regarding an annual event such as passover,1 or 2 days, or even a week or two prior, the passover would be "at hand", while 3 months prior it would not be.

    Therefore, regarding an event that was to happen only once in history, 40 years certainly qualifies as "at hand" in human terms.
    Again, unless you ignore context.


    The Greek for "come" here is Mello, meaning "to be on the point of ocourring", to be "about to happen".

    1 timothy 4:8 is indeed a time statement indicating nearness in human terms and LITERALLY reads:

    For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is about to come.

    The writer of Hebrews makes it undebatably clear that "the last days" were underway during Christs earthly ministry:

    Hebrews 1:1-2
    "1God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

    Peter also testified to the then contemporary FULFILLMENT of Last days Prophesy:

    Acts 2:12-17
    12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "Whatever could this mean?" 13 Others mocking said, "They are full of new wine." 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel: 17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.


    Paul expresses this understanding in even sharper terms:

    1 Corinthians 10:11
    Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

    And the writer of Hebrews confirms Paul's teaching, with crystal clear testimony of How when Christ 1st appeared, it was the "end of the ages"

    Hebrews 9:26
    He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

    Claiming that these men did not teach nor understand that their cointemporary generation was the Biblical Last Days Generation, manifest at the end of the ages, is untenable.
     
  6. brother daniel

    brother daniel Well-Known Member

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  7. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Lets look at the Greek word used for Generation in the contextually appropriate verse, Matt 24:36
    "Genea"

    In the NT, 'Genea' is used EXCLUSIVELY to speak of the whole multitude of men living at the same time, and Matthew Himself gives us the mathmatical formula to determine the length, in years, of a Biblical Generation, "Genea":

    Matt 1:17
    So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

    In this genealogical table, we have data to estimate the length of a generation. It tells us that from the captivity in Babylon until Christ are fourteen generations. Now the date of the captivity, in the reign of Zedekiah, is said to be 586 BC. From 586 BC until the birth of Christ would be about 586 years which, divided by fourteen, makes the average length of a generation about 41 years.

    Here we go again...
    We KNOW that during the 1st century, the Biblical LAST DAYS were UNDERWAY, as scripture EXPLICITLY testifies to that FACT.

    BTW, Revelation was written about 66-68AD, during the final years of the Neronic Persecution.
     
  8. Starforsaken

    Starforsaken Regular Member

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    If revelation was about 66-68 what about the part at the end of revelation where it says the dead in the ground and living will rise and be transifgured by Gods power? Somehow I dont remember that happening in 66-68 AD. Also wouldnt this be considered preterism?
     
  9. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    IF we figure out how Christ knew it was His appointed time...then we may also use the same methodology and learn when He will return a second time.

    Acts17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    The Bible does give us clues ..

    Daniel 8:17 For at the time of the end shall be the vision. 19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. 23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, 26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.'

    When is the time appointed? At the time of the end, in the last end of the indignation, when transgressors are come to the full.

    Jeremiah 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.

    Now knowing the judgement of the Lord has an appointed time, called the Day of Atonement, it is important to learn more about this appointed time and what to expect. I want you to understand that when the Lord comes to His temple it will be fast, suddenly. For those that are prepared for it , this will be a time of great rejoicing, for those who are unprepared it will be the judgement that they so feared.

    2 Chronicles 29:36 And Hezekiah rejoiced, and all the people, that God had prepared the people: for the thing was done suddenly.

    Psalm 64:1 Hear my voice, O God, in my prayer: preserve my life from fear of the enemy. 2 Hide me from the secret counsel of the wicked; from the insurrection of the workers of iniquity: 3 Who whet their tongue like a sword, and bend their bows to shoot their arrows, even bitter words: 4 That they may shoot in secret at the perfect: suddenly do they shoot at him, and fear not.5 They encourage themselves in an evil matter: they commune of laying snares privily; they say, Who shall see them? 6 They search out iniquities; they accomplish a diligent search: both the inward thought of every one of them, and the heart, is deep. 7 But God shall shoot at them with an arrow; suddenly shall they be wounded. 8 So they shall make their own tongue to fall upon themselves: all that see them shall flee away. 9 And all men shall fear, and shall declare the work of God; for they shall wisely consider of his doing. 10 The righteous shall be glad in the LORD, and shall trust in him; and all the upright in heart shall glory.

    Think about it, if God suddenly came to your mind, and all the secret things are revealed in their true light, how would you feel, what you do and how would you respond to such an event.

    Ecclesiastes 9:12 For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.

    It is important for believers to be ready at the appointed time for the experience with God, that is so necessary for us to prepare to live with God forever.

    Jeremiah 49 :9 Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan against the habitation of the strong: but I will suddenly make him run away from her: and who is a chosen man, that I may appoint over her? for who is like me? and who will appoint me the time? and who is that shepherd that will stand before me?

    Just like Pentecost for the disciples, so it will be for those who are to receive the latter rain at its appointed time.

    Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting

    Jeremiah 5:24 Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest

    Yyou will understand why so many of these ceremonial sabbaths are called "feasts"as they are truly wonderful spiritual food essential for the last days. Each different and each very beneficial for the body of the bride.

    Leviticus 23:4 In addition to the Sabbath, the Lord has established festivals, the holy occasions to be observed at the proper time each year.

    The word occasions in this verse in the KJV translation has been translated as convocations in others it really means rehearsals. Any time you have rehearsals, you have the appointed time when it will no longer be a rehearsal, it will be the real thing. If you understand the rehearsals, then you will know what is your role is in the last drama that will involve the whole world will be. You can learn the role that God wants you to have, or you will be caught up in the greatest deception this world has ever seen.

    Chapter 23 of Leviticus covers all seven feasts.

    Leviticus 23:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'These are my appointed feasts, the appointed feasts of the LORD , which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.

    How did Christ know He was to be the Passover Lamb this time instead of being crowned King of the Jews? How did He know which Passover was His appointed time?

    Corinthians 5:7 Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us.

    Jesus was to completely fulfilled the Passover events with exact timing. John saw Jesus coming toward him and recognized right away this was promised sacrifice and said,

    John 1:29 Behold There is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

    At Jesus’s Appointed Time, the feast of Passover was met with the fulfillment. It was not on any other time, date, month, year, just the appointed time found in the feast of the Passover. Why this Passover?

    Lev 23:4,5 These are the appointed times of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at the times appointed for them. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the LORD's Passover.

    Moed is the Hebrew word for appointed time, often translated as festival, but actually means appointment.

    The idea of Passover as an appointed time is expressed by the words of Jesus as he prepares to meet his own appointed time in Jerusalem. In Mathew 26:17,18, Jesus calls this particular Passover my appointed time.

    Matt 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples

    Jesus has identified the appointed time of the not only the Passover but also the Festival of Unleavened Bread as his appointed time for fulfillment. So with the first days celebration of the feast of Unleaven Bread, he breaks the unleaven bread and gives it new meaning at what we now know as the Lord's Supper.

    Thirty three years Jesus lived and walked on the earth. But that year, he says that the Passover is His appointed time.

    In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul gives the festivals, new moons and Sabbaths prophetic value by saying they were shadows of things to come. The appointed times in the ceremonial feasts are shadows of things to come. This particular verse in Col 2:16-17 has not been clearly studied and understood today as it must have been commonly understood in Paul’s day. Paul saw no need to explain the messianic and prophetic interpretations to be found in the festivals. He was raised on these festivals and probably thought they were commonly understood and they probably were for their point and time.

    What was it about this particular spring time feasts that Jesus knew were going to be prophetic reality? What did Jesus know about these feasts and their timing, that He knew it was His appointed time? What did Jesus see in the Spring Feasts that lead Him to fulfill them the way that He did and not the way that the people of that time had hoped?

    Did you notice the detail that all the spring type feasts were fulfilled by the first coming of Jesus Christ. These feasts that had significant fulfillment with the first coming of Jesus also point to the future fulfillment of the fall feasts for His Second Coming. We are to appear before the Lord they God in the place and appointed time that He chooses. You are not to appear empty.

    Deut. 16:16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the Feasts of unleavened bread, and in the Feasts of weeks, and in the Feasts of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:

    As far as the Lord is concerned these all are His feasts.

    Lev. 23:1-4 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the Feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my Feasts. 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. 4 These are the Feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

    The ceremonial feasts are there for a reason, this is more than just an old testament and an old covenant. God always has deeper meaning to everything He does. The new covenant of Jesus was a fulfillment of the spring time feasts. Since it was fulfilled in a reality in the life of Christ, let us take a closer look at the fall feasts that God has given us.

    In order to receive an inheritance, you must be taken back into the God’s fold, if you do not meet with the Lord at His appointed time, how can you receive the blessing?

    Leviticus 16:29-31 And this shall be an eternal law for you. Each year on the tenth day of the seventh month you must fast and do no work. This is true of the native born and of the proselyte who comes to join you. This is because on this day you shall have all your sins atoned, so that you will be cleansed. Before God you will be cleansed of your sins. It is a Sabbath of Sabbaths to you, and a day upon which you must fast. This is a law for all time."

    Daniel 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed,

    If Jesus found His answers while He was on earth in the Spring Feasts for His fulfillments...Should we not look to the Fall Feasts for our answered as to the fulfillment of the end of time, that time that Daniel says is appointed?
     
  10. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Chapter & Verse please?
    I prefer to comment on specific scriptures.

    Do you remember anything that happened in 66-68AD?
    Accepting a pre 70 AD date for revelation?
    Nope, that would not, in itself, be considered preterism.
     
  11. Starforsaken

    Starforsaken Regular Member

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    My mistake Parous, I read your post wrong, I thought when you said revelation was written about(around) 66-68 AD; I thought you meant it was written ABOUT that time period.
     
  12. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi parousia70................. Hi justme

    I agree that you must use these sentences in context ...it is just WAY TOO EASY to take a verse out of context and make it say whatever you want...........

    What you are attempting to do is take a time frame and context from an Actual event like the passover or the betrayal of Jesus by Judas.............................and place it on top of an abstarct concept like a Future time.................a time that no one but God knows.

    Let me ask you a question.............Has judgement day happened.......................if you believe it has and do not want to say so here then PM me a tell me. I do not care if you are full or partial or whatever............it matters not to me.

    Now as for Judgement day as we both know the creed states that that is still future.......................This being true what of this verse...........

    Rev 22:12: And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    Now as we know 300 years after Jesus death it was agreed at Nicaea that Judgement day had not yet happened............and well it sure has not happened since....................

    So what is it that can be said about this saying................."I come Quickly"

    The only answer to this.................... in scripture....................... is Peter

    8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    I find it MORE THEN TELLING that PETER SAYS THIS.......................along with what he states quite plainly ..................is the destruction of all the works of Man on Earth........all burned up.....................He also Directly ties this event to Matt 24: and the Thief in the Night.

    There are just no conditions by which you can say that these events happened in 70 Ad or at any time yet.

    Peter directly ties Jesus return ..........the thief in the night...................... AS THE SAME EVENT AS parousia...............OR "JUDGEMENT DAY" which clearly states all the works of man will be burned up.

    What you are doing with these verses is saying that because it say "I come Quickly" you believe this means it had to happen then ....when clearly this is just not the case ........you are taking Human time frames and applying them to God............Peter Tells us this is Folly....and those who do are WILLINGLY IGNORANT.....of the Truth.

    REMEMBER WHAT PETER SAID ………………SO TO GOD, JESUS ONLY LEFT EARTH YESTERDAY.
     
  13. Breetai

    Breetai For I am not ashamed of the Gospel...

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    You're being inconsistant with yourself. You bothered to list 42 generation from Abraham to Christ, yet you only calculated a generation based on the date of the Babylonian exile in 586 BC. Why didn't you include the entire spectrum?

    If you calculate a generation based on the 42 generation from Abraham to Christ, you end up with 51.57 years. That is based on the generally accepted date of Abraham's birth in 2166 BC.


    I wonder why...
     
  14. psalms 91

    psalms 91 Legend

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    i believe revelation to be in the future but i will not debate it but caution that at the end of revelation it states that any who add or take away from the words of this book is under a curse.
     
  15. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

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    Hi Just the Facts,

    I'd like to respond to your whole post and hopefully Par 70 will too.

    There we go, we all agree on something.

    I'm not privy to what you are talking about here.

    Well, you figure it out.

    2 Cor 5:10
    For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    Now there is a verse somewhere that those who do not believe are judged already???something like that, however, let's just go ahead and assume we are all believers here. So I may be judged but Jesus has never said one word about that to me. Yet, Hebrews tells me I will be made aware of that judgment.

    27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

    Now that is for me. The resurrection of the dead is a different story and that story is in Revelation 20 and a few other verses. The resurrection of the dead take place at/near/during the great trib/parousia/sometime around there. Those who are alive and remain at the time of the coming are 'caught up' to be with the Lord in the air after the parousia. I may have mentioned that to you before. Those people are blessed. Rev 14:13. That is true no matter when you believe the parousia will be. The resurrection of the dead occurs in a certain relationship to that parousia, no matter when any one claims that parousia to be.
    My judgment day is future, at least the day I learn of it is, because I haven't died yet.

    Hebrews 9
    27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

    That verse tells me two things, one, I'm going to die; two, after that death I learn of my judgment.
    Jesus could have wrote me off a billion years ago for all I know, but I don't learn what that judgment is til after I die..

    Rev 22:12: And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    I see the second coming as the time I am informed of my judgment and I say again I haven't been informed yet.

    Just for notes, Jesus repeats that again at the second last verse of the bible. You may think that Revelation isn't in chronological order. Actually it isn't but this verse has nothing to do with that. Clear as mud, eh?

     
  16. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    The wailing wall still has some stones upon another and they are not torn down yet....I see that "this generation" as those who see the stones no longer upon one another..."this generation" is the one that will not pass away until all things take place.
     
  17. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

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    Hi Just

    Wow you even twist Nicene creed to fit your doctrine.

    the creed is clear there will be a future day WHEN ALL WILL BE JUDGED ...................Judgement day is not every 15 seconds when someone dies.

    Notice

    and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead,

    Your judgement day theory denies the Nicene creed..........clearly at this future Judgement day LIVING are judged as well as dead......notice the plurality.

    Anyone who has even done A LITTLE bit of investigation knows that it was one future day that is being talked of


    Quote

    How about the day of the Lord is the parousia and this is really planet earth burning up. That pretty well ends it for all these people who wanted a 1000 year reign with Christ on earth.

    How about the day of the Lord is the parousia and it really is planet earth burning up and that would put an end to all this talk about any physical return to earth to some earthly kingdom of God.

    How about if it is the parousia but it is symbolic and it only means the old covenant is being destroyed and a new covenant with God is coming...a little like it says in the verse down a couple...

    13But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells..

    End Quote

    First notice that Peter says WE ARE LOOKING FOR.........so it for sure did not happen by this time as he is still looking .................so the position that the cross is the start of the kingdom is just out of the question................

    Now what that leaves us with is the destruction of Jerusalem......so now that has us saying that Jesus death was less important then the destruction of what Jesus termed an Evil system.

    The Reality is, if this was the kingdom we would find a whole lot more justice and righteousness and a whole lot less greed Murder and War.....................................

    Now why do we have War and strife

    James 4:1: From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2: Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.3: Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

    James clearly states that war and strife come from not being in God...................so

    We are to believe that the last 2,000 years of war and murder and death ..........mostly perpetrated by Christians with priests and Pastors blessing the soldiers and the Weapons is the Kingdom of God on Earth.


    PLEASE an Idiot I am not
     
  18. psalms 91

    psalms 91 Legend

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    read all of the prophets both old and new testament and you will see that it is future.. i have yet to see the dead in christ rise or his coming in a cloud of glory
     
  19. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

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    Hi Visionary,

    As Jesus gestured and spoke then to His followers ...He never pointed at what became the wailing wall.

    It's either that or Christ is a liar.

    Because He replied to this:
    5Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said,

    Go ahead and explain to the people why you would consider that Jesus lied.

    Justme
     
  20. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Never considered that Jesus lied...more a question of maybe the prophecy has not yet had complete fulfillment.
     
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