Biblical reasons for the submission of women

[Daniel C]

This verse is talking about salvation "In Christ there is now no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female" two verses forward talks about faith.

Galatians 3:25-28


Nothing to do with status.

 

[Ttalkkugjil]

Paul has no intention to belittle women or to ascribe inferiority to them.

Neither woman without man, nor man without woman, in Jesus. For as the woman's from the man, the man's through the woman. Everything's from God the Creator.

The woman isn't in Jesus apart from humanity. She has no claim in Jesus all for herself. The same Jesus is Jesus of both, a fact which applies to the man as well. They stand with equal rights in God's Kingdom.

The woman was taken from the man. He was her being's cause. On the other hand, woman, by God's order, is the man's cause. Neither party can boast, since God is humanity's Source. Both must revere God.

 

[Anto9us]

God makes women everything but Apostles.

You are probably correct, Jonathan.

An apostle named "Junia" -- it is said that is male nonetheless -- that is closest stab at a female apostle

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Mary was the first Jesus appeared to after His Resurrection. This shows what God thinks about women. But Christ still did not make her an Apostle over the Church. This shows WHO God gives Spiritual Authority/Responsibility. Men believed the Gospel after women, but they still have the duty of spiritual leadership, and thus God gives them the necessary Authority as the tool to do it, just like He gave Adam the Authority to name the animals. A woman of God can share the Word of God with men. But when both a women and a man have the Word of God, the woman is called to yield the the Word of God in the Man. This is God's Order. This why why Jesus was silent when God spoke from Heaven at Jesus baptism. Jesus Christ never interrupts or overrules the Father. When the Father speaks, Jesus is either silent or He speaks the same words the Father is speaking. But the Son never speaks over the Father or speaks something different while the Father is speaking also. This would be spiritual confusion, exactly how Satan speaks, with a 3-forked tongue of frog-like spirits that are NOT in spiritual Unity. It's why Messages in Tongues can only be spoken by 1 or 2 at a time, and also why it says "the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets". It's why the Scriptures say that if someone is Prophesying and another Prophesy comes, the first is to sit down (1 Corinthians 14:30-33). Now both women and men can prophesy, so if a woman and a man are prophesying, and the 2nd person to get the prophesy starts speaking but the first won't sit be quiet, who is there to "USURP AUTHORITY"? If the 2nd prophecy comes thru a woman, the man speaking the 1st prophecy must be quiet. But there has to be some Authority OVER the Prophets that keeps order if the 1st person prophesying won't be quite. This is the role of Apostle. Apostles are greater than Prophets in spiritual authority. This is why Paul the Apostle wrote commands about order while Prophesying. Because Christ gave Him authority OVER both men and women Prophets. But Christ never makes a woman an Apostle, so Christ never gives women the Apostolic Spiritual Authority. This is the Order of Spiritual Authority in the Church (Ephesians 4:11)
1) Apostle
2) Prophet
3) Evangelist
4) Pastor
5) Teacher

God makes women everything but Apostles. And within their role, they have authority over over the Sons of Men, Other women, and Children, not over the Sons of God (men filled with God's Spirit).

A woman prophetess does not have Authority over a man of God Teacher even though her role is Greater. For example, if a Prophecy comes thru a woman of God, and there is a Man of God TEACHER there who says the Prophecy is not in accordance with the Word of God, the TEACHER can OVERRULE that woman's Prophesy and it should be ignored. This is also part of God's Order in the Church.

If there is a despite amongst Teachers, the Pastor decides. But where do Shepherds/Pastors get get fed? Evangelists. Who sends and edify's the Evangelists? Prophets! And who keeps Spiritual Order between the Prophets? Apostles. And Christ is the Head of the Apostles and thus, the whole church.

 

[Anto9us]

Was Junia in Romans 16:7 a female apostle in authority? | CARM.org

Now I sing the song of love for Junia

No agreement on gender of Junia

 

[Anto9us]

This verse is talking about salvation "In Christ there is now no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female" two verses forward talks about faith.

Galatians 3:25-28


Nothing to do with status.

Ah, yes -- the "Oh, but you have the wrong context" card...

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

You are probably correct, Jonathan.

An apostle named "Junia" -- it is said that is male nonetheless -- that is closest stab at a female apostle

She was famous AMONG them, but not one OF them. The correct interpretation of this Scripture (Romans 16:7) is NOT that she WAS an Apostle. It's that she was a Saint who's Godly fame was greatly esteemed amongst the Apostles. In other words, "In the minds of the Apostles, she is greatly esteemed". Paul was giving her honor and establishing her credibility as a Saint of God, who was vetted by the Apostles, not as being an Apostle of Christ herself. There is no woman of God who by the Spirit, claimed to be an Apostle of Christ. Paul did over and over.

 

[Anto9us]

Junia and Andronicus were of note among the apostles
Some say that means they were 'held in high regard by apostles, but not necessarily apostles themselves"

Whichever way it can be spun that women never get a pat on the back, I am sure it will be spun that way, as this semester's course in Misogyny 101 continues unabated...

 

[Daniel C]

Ah, yes -- the "Oh, but you have the wrong context" card...

Well Paul says 'faith' and 'baptism' in the conversation you quote, so it's talking about salvation,not status.

Nothing to do with context,black and white.

 

[Anto9us]

7 Salute Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners,

Here Junias is masculine in form - and Junias is a FELLOW-PRISONER like Paul - a female disciple being a prisoner would be rare

 

[Anto9us]

The correct interpretation of this Scripture (Romans 16:7) is NOT that she WAS an Apostle.

Says your opinion.

 

[Daniel C]

All of Gods elected OT prophets were men. So women would have biblical submitted to them.

 

[JacksBratt]

We hear frequently these days that the reason for the submission of women was cultural, in the church of Corinth only, about a specific woman only etc.

I would like to present 3 biblical reasons for the submission. Notice, that none of them is temporal, cultural or local:

1) The creation order:
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
1Tm 2:11

2) Because Eve was deceived, not Adam:
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
1Tm 2:14

3) Woman was created for man, not man for woman, its her purpose:
"Neither was man created for the sake of woman, but woman for the sake of man."
1Cor 11:9

As long as what these verses state is true, the submission of women is true, too, and women are not allowed to be in a position of authority in a Christian environment.

Remember... men.... you need to submit to Christ in order to treat your woman in a way that she will have no problem submitting to you.

 

[Anto9us]

All of Gods elected OT prophets were men.

Did that change in NT - when Phillip had 4 virgin daughters who prophesied?

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

All of Gods elected OT prophets were men. So women would have biblical submitted to them.

Almost all. Deborah, a woman was a prophet of God (Judges 4:4). But she did not "usurp authority" over any men Prophets because there were none. She had authority over the "Sons of Israel", but that's because they were not filled with or being led by the Spirit.

 

[Anto9us]

Song of Deborah -- as we know it, was co-composed with a male

 

[HatGuy]

Jesus said he came to serve and not be served.

No discussion on submission in marriage should ever take place without considering that men should love their wives as Christ loved the Church, and Jesus loved the Church by serving the Church and not being served.

With that out the way, one should be very careful about saying that women must submit to all men. That's hogwash. The submission scripture is in context to marriage. No where does it say they should submit to all men.

I do believe that certain functions are for men and certain functions are for women in the Church, but the idea that woman are meant to be submission at all times and places is absolutely not biblical.

Eve came from Adam, from His body, while Adam was asleep (the Hebrew word is "dead"). This points to Jesus and the Church. The Church is Jesus' Bride, His partner. He came to serve and love this church. I'm not interested in hearing from a man who wants to insist on submission and also insist they must be served as someone's Master.

 

[bekkilyn]

Somewhere there is a verse about "In Christ there is now no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female"

I looked but cant put my finger on it

I have just seen a lot of "allegedly bible-based misogyny" on this board lately...

I wish it would CEASE

And it wouldn't be allowed to persist if it were any other minority group being hated on in the name of "the Bible". All the same sort of "biblical" arguments used in the past to justify black slavery and many other atrocities.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Was Junia in Romans 16:7 a female apostle in authority? | CARM.org

Now I sing the song of love for Junia

No agreement on gender of Junia

I think Junia was a female who's Godliness was famous among(to) the Apostles. This Scripture is not saying she was an Apostle. Paul was VETTING her by saying all the Apostles esteemed her as Godly. Not as an Apostle. "Apostle" is a role in the church that comes with tools (Authority). Women are never place in that role by Christ. And therefore, He never gives them the tool of Apostolic Authority. Spiritual Authority is not a badge of honor or a "reward" of worthiness. It's a tool to do a specific job and fill a specific role/responsibility. It's like trying to say "I am a Police officer because I carry a gun." No. Your "ordained" a police officer by the Authority, and the gun is your tool to do the job. Anyone who tries to use a gun as a police officer but was never Commissioned by the Authority is transgressing the Law and posing as an Officer of the Law. Such are women who try to "usurp authority" over the Men of God in Church. And the Men of God who allow it are like Police officers who refuse to carry a gun. They aren't using their God-given equipment correctly.

 

[Strong in Him]

We hear frequently these days that the reason for the submission of women was cultural, in the church of Corinth only, about a specific woman only etc.

I would like to present 3 biblical reasons for the submission. Notice, that none of them is temporal, cultural or local:

1) The creation order:
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
1Tm 2:11

That doesn't prove anything - animals were created before man; so?

2) Because Eve was deceived, not Adam:
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
1Tm 2:14

Eve was deceived; yes.
Adam was flat out disobedient - and sin came into the world through Adam, Romans 5:12-21. Eve had not been created when Adam was commanded not to eat from the tree, and we are not told that God gave her a direct command. If she wasn't sure what God had said, that would explain why she got it wrong, Genesis 3:3.

3) Woman was created for man, not man for woman, its her purpose:
"Neither was man created for the sake of woman, but woman for the sake of man."
1Cor 11:9

God said, "it is not good for man to be alone". All other animals were in pairs; not Adam. So Eve was created to be his companion.

As long as what these verses state is true, the submission of women is true, too, and women are not allowed to be in a position of authority in a Christian environment.

No; doesn't follow at all.
A wife submitting to her husband; maybe. A woman not allowed to be called by God to fulfil the role of Minister/teacher in a church; no.
There were prophetesses in the OT who gave men a word from the Lord. In the case of Huldah, 2 Kings 22:14-20, the male priests chose to consult her.
Jesus chose a woman to be the first witness to the resurrection - the men were all in hiding.
God has always chosen, and called, whoever he pleases to do his will and speak for him. He's looking for faith and obedience; not gender.