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Featured Biblical reasons for the submission of women

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by myst33, Apr 17, 2019 at 10:58 AM.

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  1. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    We hear frequently these days that the reason for the submission of women was cultural, in the church of Corinth only, about a specific woman only etc.

    I would like to present 3 biblical reasons for the submission. Notice, that none of them is temporal, cultural or local:

    1) The creation order:
    A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
    1Tm 2:11

    2) Because Eve was deceived, not Adam:
    And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
    1Tm 2:14

    3) Woman was created for man, not man for woman, its her purpose:
    "Neither was man created for the sake of woman, but woman for the sake of man."
    1Cor 11:9

    As long as what these verses state is true, the submission of women is true, too, and women are not allowed to be in a position of authority in a Christian environment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 11:05 AM
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  2. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Biblical submission is not a bad thing. However, the worldly view of it (including the view adopted by many Christians) is not a good thing.

    I believe if husbands truly understood that biblical submission puts far more responsibility on them than their wives, they would be much more hesitant to pull that card out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 7:13 PM
  3. Anto9us

    Anto9us Neo-Middle

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    Rom 16:1
    I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
    Rom 16:2
    That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
    Rom 16:3
    Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:
     
  4. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Greetings etc. are not doctrines.

    But none of these verses puts a woman into a position of authority.
     
  5. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    I do not think its about pulling a card out. I think its God's order and the opposite is simply wrong.
     
  6. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Oh, I agree 100%, but the card pulling happens... and far too often.
     
  7. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So we're already using white-out to redact all the parts of the bible that contradict the OP. I already see how this thread is going to go. Right into the same cesspool as all the the other "men are superior to women" threads that continuously pop up here on CF. (And if you put the word "biblical" in front of it, all the better.)
     
  8. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    Can you specify what you mean by that?
     
  9. myst33

    myst33 Well-Known Member

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    There is no contradiction. Nothing of those greetings puts a woman into a position of authority over men. Even if you want to believe that greetings are inspired too.
     
  10. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Being blinded to the contradictions doesn't mean there aren't any.
     
  11. timewerx

    timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    God did not originally created Eve to submit nor subordinate to Adam.

    God made this very clear after they sinned that woman's subordination is a consequence of their sin...

    Which means, it wasn't the norm prior, nor by design.

    Remember that Jesus lifted this curse from us. So by the NT, women are no longer to be subject to the consequences of Eve's sin.

    Paul's statements are only cultural in context (to avoid attracting unwanted attention) because if Paul's teachings about women is taken literally, this would contradict Christ's deliverance of women.

    Therefore, Paul's teachings on women is not literal. Paul also made it very clear, he taught according to the culture of his audience.
     
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  12. usexpat97

    usexpat97 kewlness

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    I see no problem with using the word "biblical", since that's what it is. Indeed, this involves following the Bible even when it makes little sense otherwise. I also have no problem with the word "superior", so long as everyone knows what that word means. Your boss is superior to you, but not better than you.

    I still don't know what to think of it all, but I know what I think of those two words.
     
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  13. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    I have personally done marriage counseling on more than one occasion where the husband consistently blames the wife for everything and will not take responsibility for anything but continually brings up that the Bible says she should submit to him. He may be doing all manner of fleshly things, drunkenness, pornography, lewdness, rudeness and so on, but SHE is supposed to submit to THAT? In fact all of it is HER fault, because she won't submit.... that's rubbish.

    I hope we can all agree that we first and foremost are to submit to God. So how can we submit to God and submit to ungodly behavior and character at the same time? Husbands are supposed to model Godly character and integrity that their entire family can proudly follow (that's all submission truly is), not just use submission to get their way. And that absolutely happens, I've seen it firsthand.
     
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  14. Daniel C

    Daniel C Member

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    Biblical reasons for the submission of women:

    The apostle Peter says women are the 'weaker vessel' in marriage, so presumably wives should submit to their husbands being 'weaker'.

    1 Peter 3:7
     
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  15. Anto9us

    Anto9us Neo-Middle

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    Somewhere there is a verse about "In Christ there is now no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female"

    I looked but cant put my finger on it

    I have just seen a lot of "allegedly bible-based misogyny" on this board lately...

    I wish it would CEASE
     
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  16. topher694

    topher694 Go Turtle!

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    Ha! ;)

    Couldn't agree more, unfortunately due to my "Show Ignored Content" button showing up, I suspect it has found it's way to this thread. Now I must resist the temptation to press that button!
     
  17. Jonathan Mathews

    Jonathan Mathews Active Member

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    Mary was the first Jesus appeared to after His Resurrection. This shows what God thinks about women. But Christ still did not make her an Apostle over the Church. This shows WHO God gives Spiritual Authority/Responsibility. Men believed the Gospel after women, but they still have the duty of spiritual leadership, and thus God gives them the necessary Authority as the tool to do it, just like He gave Adam the Authority to name the animals. A woman of God can share the Word of God with men. But when both a women and a man have the Word of God, the woman is called to yield the the Word of God in the Man. This is God's Order. This why why Jesus was silent when God spoke from Heaven at Jesus baptism. Jesus Christ never interrupts or overrules the Father. When the Father speaks, Jesus is either silent or He speaks the same words the Father is speaking. But the Son never speaks over the Father or speaks something different while the Father is speaking also. This would be spiritual confusion, exactly how Satan speaks, with a 3-forked tongue of frog-like spirits that are NOT in spiritual Unity. It's why Messages in Tongues can only be spoken by 1 or 2 at a time, and also why it says "the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets". It's why the Scriptures say that if someone is Prophesying and another Prophesy comes, the first is to sit down (1 Corinthians 14:30-33). Now both women and men can prophesy, so if a woman and a man are prophesying, and the 2nd person to get the prophesy starts speaking but the first won't sit be quiet, who is there to "USURP AUTHORITY"? If the 2nd prophecy comes thru a woman, the man speaking the 1st prophecy must be quiet. But there has to be some Authority OVER the Prophets that keeps order if the 1st person prophesying won't be quite. This is the role of Apostle. Apostles are greater than Prophets in spiritual authority. This is why Paul the Apostle wrote commands about order while Prophesying. Because Christ gave Him authority OVER both men and women Prophets. But Christ never makes a woman an Apostle, so Christ never gives women the Apostolic Spiritual Authority. This is the Order of Spiritual Authority in the Church (Ephesians 4:11)
    1) Apostle
    2) Prophet
    3) Evangelist
    4) Pastor
    5) Teacher

    God makes women everything but Apostles. And within their role, they have authority over over the Sons of Men, Other women, and Children, not over the Sons of God (men filled with God's Spirit).

    A woman prophetess does not have Authority over a man of God Teacher even though her role is Greater. For example, if a Prophecy comes thru a woman of God, and there is a Man of God TEACHER there who says the Prophecy is not in accordance with the Word of God, the TEACHER can OVERRULE that woman's Prophesy and it should be ignored. This is also part of God's Order in the Church.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019 at 12:53 PM
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  18. Anto9us

    Anto9us Neo-Middle

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    WE (male and female) are made IN GOD'S IMAGE.

    To get radical,
    think of the most masculine man you know.
    God is way more masculine than that.
    Now think of the most feminine woman you know.
    God must be way more feminine than that also, for God's personality/image is the model for ours.

    There is such a thing as "masculine personality" and "feminine personality". We can see it in humans, and in animals. Where did it come from? God's image.

    Phoebe carried the letter of Romans to Rome, and had a position at Cenchrae.
    Priscilla helped instruct Apollos more perfectly about the Holy Ghost, and it was already said Apollos was "mighty in the Scriptures". This gal-bashin' has got to stop
     
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  19. Anto9us

    Anto9us Neo-Middle

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    topher -- that "Ignore" card is a two-edged sword...

    I put someone on IGNORE -- I lose continuity in a thread, and I always wind up unignoring them, just to keep up and follow

    Oh - Proverbs 8 describes Wisdom as a female consort to God who was pre-existent

    The rocks the misogynists will throw are too soft to hurt me!
     
  20. Anto9us

    Anto9us Neo-Middle

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    Look at all four gospel accounts in the NT...
    ALL differ slightly concerning the tomb
    (two men, two angels, 1 man, 1 angel)
    not a ONE of them agree on the details

    heck, even Mark disagrees about Mary alone or Mary with other women (in the long ending to Mark"

    there is much ambiguity, and it doesn't make a dime's worth of difference

    2000 years later, we are still talkin about what meant what

    John wrote - late in life- "we are now the sons of God and it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but when He appears, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM"

    post-resurrection Jesus could APPEAR IN A DIFFERENT FORM (like road to Emmaus)
    He could eat but probably did not have to -- He could VANISH -- appear somewhere else, locked doors or no

    eyes of disciples were opened when He opened up the scriptures to them
     
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