Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

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I'm with you. The only plausible metaphor I see in the story (without denying the literal meaning) is as follows:

Noah represent God the Father, the true Husbandman. His nakedness is none other than Jesus Christ whose uncomeliness (Isa. 53:2) the Jews (Ham) treated with ridicule. Unlike them, the Saints of the Old Testament symbolized by Shem, since he was the firstborn, and those of the New Testament Japheth, the last son, treated Him with reverence, accepting the mystery of the Incarnation. It says, “God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem;” This is exactly what happened with us, the Church of the Gentiles.

Btw, Noah didn’t curse Ham so as not to contradict God who had already blessed him (see verse 1).

So who do you know who has looked upon their father in nakedness wrongfully?
Who do you know whereby something like this has happened whereby they cursed their child because of it? While there are cultural differences between the Jews and the Gentiles, I believe sin is universal and the warning against such sins speaks to us today.
 
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1 Corinthians 5:1-2 says,

1 Cor 5:1 "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1 Cor 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you."​

Here we see that one of the Corinthians had slept with his father's wife (i.e. his mother).

1 Cor 5:6 "Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
1 Cor 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1 Cor 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1 Corinthians 5:6-8).​

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5:13, "Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person." This is the leaven of malice and wickedness (verse 8). Paul asks, "Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?" (verse 6); Then Paul says, "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened" (verse 7).

Leaven is a type of yeast that would puff up bread.
Leaven is a type of "sin." It puffs up.

Paul says to the Corinthians in not putting away this wicked person, "And ye are puffed up," (1 Corinthians 5:2).

The yeast within alcoholic wine is ALSO a leaven.

For Leviticus 2:11 specifically states, "ye shall burn no leaven... in any offering of the LORD made by fire." And the drink offerings most of the time were made by fire (Which included the daily offerings: (Exodus 29:41 KJV) (Numbers 28:7, 8) the First fruits Feast of Weeks: (Leviticus 23:18 KJV) and the Feast of Trumpets: (Numbers 29:6 KJV)).

For again, leaven (yeast) is representative of sin within the Bible.
And alcoholic wine is made by the yeast activating with the sugars within the alcohol. Many times this yeast is naturally present as a powder like substance upon the skin of the grape; And sometimes it is not there in significant quantity due to rainy seasons and off many native grape populations for making fermented wine.

Leaven in wine is what can get you drunk.
So Paul is saying that cast out this sinful person who is justifying sin of sleeping with his own mother (leaven, sin, spiritual drunkenness) from among you.

So here again, we see in Scripture a person committing incest with their mother and a loose allusion to wine (leaven, drunkeness). In this case, it is spiritual drunkenness.

Revelation talks about how Mystery Babylon is drunk with the blood of the saints and she has committed spiritual adultery. In other words, this all speaks way back to the beginning where we see Ham and Noah's wife commit incest (involving drunkenness) and Lot and his two daughers committing incest (involving drunkenness).
 
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Also, Scripture says that Ham had other sons.

"And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan." (Genesis 10:6).​

Why didn't Noah curse these other sons for his sin of looking upon his father's nakedness?
 
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Paidiske

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In Summary so far:

The Story of Noah and Ham is paralleld in the Story of Lot and his two daughters.

(1) Both Noah & Lot get drunk after a great miraculous Judgment from God.
(2) Both Noah & Lot are asleep & they do not perceive an incident of incest under their nose.
(3) Both Noah & Lot are involved with incest regarding two close family members.
(4) Both Noah & Lot's wives no longer give children to their husband after a great Judgment.
(5) Both Noah & Lot's wives are judged by God in some way as the result of a sin that befalls them (either directly or indirectly).​

The story also continues on through the pages of Scripture with both sets of offspring being destroyed later in Exodus by God's people. In fact, Leviticus 18 talks about the Canaanites (Canaan) along with the laws that forbid incest. On top of that, we see Ham's motivation as to why he slept with his father's wife elsewhere in Scripture. Ham desire was to usurp his father's natural authority that he has over his wife in marriage. For 1 Corinthians 7:4 says, "The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife."

Elsewhere in Scripture, we see a son trying to usurp his father's authority by sleeping with their sex partner. So like with Ham taking Noah's wife:

(1) Reuben sleep's with his father's concubine (i.e. Jacob's concubine).
(2) Absalom sleeps with his father's concubines in public (i.e. David's concubines).​

Back in our story in Genesis 9, we learn that Ham's plan of trying to usurp his father's authority backfires. For Noah places a curse on Canaan (and his descendants) and they will be under authority to Shem and Japheth by Canaan serving them. But with the literal wooden reading of the Story of Noah and Ham, we are left scratching our heads to people who do not seem real and are doing things that are completely irrational. We also see nothing of this irrational story repeated within the pages of Scripture elsewhere giving us understanding. The wooden literal version of the Story of Noah and Ham is complex and not simple and it gives us no understanding.
 
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NeedyFollower

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I believe it was more than that involving Ham.
I believe it is very clear in what Ham did if one looks at the metaphors in Leviticus.

I merely believe the way I do based upon comparing Scripture with Scripture upon the guidance of God. The Metaphors is what let to my interpretation of the story. Nothing more and nothing less. I believe it is what God's Word says and I had no beef with any particular person in the Bible. I actually like Noah because he is a preacher of righteousness.
Despite Noah's sin of drunkenness, I believe he was forgiven.
Nowhere did I ever say he was eternally condemned.
As for Ham: It seems like he took a different path that was not right.
The Scriptures paint him in a bad light.
Also, my intention is not to even accuse Mrs. Noah, either.
Nowhere will you find anywhere me saying anything bad against her as if it was a matter of fact. We simply do not know what happened in regards to her involvement. I said before we do not know if she was forced upon by Ham or if she was involved. The Scriptures simply do not say.



I will take it under advisement, but I am pretty busy.
I have other studies and things I am doing for the Lord at the moment.
Hi brother ..Yes I agree with your regarding Noah and it agrees with grace And the Lord Jesus Christ that all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men but whoever speak against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
Isn't it amazing that God did not even destroy Cain but cast him out (putting a mark on him to protect him harm . ) God's goodness so exceeds mans ( as if man had goodness )
Grace and peace in Jesus our Lord ..God's mercy manifested .
 
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Hi brother ..Yes I agree with your regarding Noah and it agrees with grace And the Lord Jesus Christ that all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men but whoever speak against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Agreed.

You said:
Isn't it amazing that God did not even destroy Cain but cast him out (putting a mark on him to protect him harm . ) God's goodness so exceeds mans ( as if man had goodness )

Yes, this is true that God cast Cain out and put a mark on him to protect him. But I believe Cain did not repent in the end based on the Scripture we are given, it paints him in a bad light.

"Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain,..." (Jude 1:11).

You said:
Grace and peace in Jesus our Lord ..God's mercy manifested .

And to you, too.
Thank you.
 
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NeedyFollower

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Agreed.



Yes, this is true that God cast Cain out and put a mark on him to protect him. But I believe Cain did not repent in the end based on the Scripture we are given, it paints him in a bad light.

"Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain,..." (Jude 1:11).



And to you, too.
Thank you.
You know brother ..there are so many valuable lessons in both old and new testament ..they both declare the glory of God and contain wisdom for men. No , I do not believe Cain repented for he lacked humility from the beginning .....somewhere in the scriptures Cain is referred to as from the evil one ...I think for me anyway , one of the the takeaways is although Cain and Able both believed in God , Able knew by faith to offer a blood sacrifice ( a shadow of Christ as we know ) . Cain offered the first rejected sacrifice and had dialogue with God ...Am I my brother's keeper ? So Cain was no atheist. If Cain were not of the wicked one, he would have been able to learn from Abel's better sacrifice vs killing his brother when Cain became aware that his sacrifice was not accepted . I am reading a book regarding the reformation ( Erasmus and Luther ) and it is startling at how much carnage Luther's ideas provoked on one side and the humanism constituted by some of Erasmus' teachings. Some of the same debates today among believers though manifested in different ways .....The catholics blamed the schisms produced by the reformation on the bible being printed in the vernacular rather than being translated out of Jerome's Latin Vulgate . Both Catholic thought and Lutherernism/ protestant reformation ideas were enforced by secular authorities which I believe was part of the problem ...it ended with the unconverted being responsible for the administration of God's grace ...a theological debate rather than a demonstration of Love which is Christ in us . May we stay free from that as much as lies within us .
In Isaiah 29:4 it speaks of those who's voice is speaking from the dust . In others words ..history should speak to us ...as Paul says " All these things happened to them ( the Israelites ) for our sake .
Grace and Peace .
 
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You know brother ..there are so many valuable lessons in both old and new testament ..they both declare the glory of God and contain wisdom for men. No , I do not believe Cain repented for he lacked humility from the beginning .....somewhere in the scriptures Cain is referred to as from the evil one ...I think for me anyway , one of the the takeaways is although Cain and Able both believed in God , Able knew by faith to offer a blood sacrifice ( a shadow of Christ as we know ) . Cain offered the first rejected sacrifice and had dialogue with God ...Am I my brother's keeper ? So Cain was no atheist. If Cain were not of the wicked one, he would have been able to learn from Abel's better sacrifice vs killing his brother when Cain became aware that his sacrifice was not accepted . I am reading a book regarding the reformation ( Erasmus and Luther ) and it is startling at how much carnage Luther's ideas provoked on one side and the humanism constituted by some of Erasmus' teachings. Some of the same debates today among believers though manifested in different ways .....The catholics blamed the schisms produced by the reformation on the bible being printed in the vernacular rather than being translated out of Jerome's Latin Vulgate . Both Catholic thought and Lutherernism/ protestant reformation ideas were enforced by secular authorities which I believe was part of the problem ...it ended with the unconverted being responsible for the administration of God's grace ...a theological debate rather than a demonstration of Love which is Christ in us . May we stay free from that as much as lies within us .
In Isaiah 29:4 it speaks of those who's voice is speaking from the dust . In others words ..history should speak to us ...as Paul says " All these things happened to them ( the Israelites ) for our sake .
Grace and Peace .

Yes, I am neither a proponent of Catholicism and nor of Protestantism. In the beginning I tried to stay away from labels because it did not feel right seeing I was not aware of the wide varied beliefs of certain denominations. I knew of the unbiblical practices of Catholicism from the beginning of course. But Protestantism was an unknown to me. There were times I sort of thought I may be one, but I was not sure of all of what they believed. When I discovered the belief of Eternal Security and how it was unbiblical, I found out that this was (for the most part) aligned with Protestantism. For I believe sin can separate a believer from God, unless they repent or confess of their sin to the Lord (1 John 1:9) (Proverbs 28:13).

Anyways, may God bless you today.
 
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NeedyFollower

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Yes, I am neither a proponent of Catholicism and nor of Protestantism. In the beginning I tried to stay away from labels because it did not feel right seeing I was not aware of the wide varied beliefs of certain denominations. I knew of the unbiblical practices of Catholicism from the beginning of course. But Protestantism was an unknown to me. There were times I sort of thought I may be one, but I was not sure of all of what they believed. When I discovered the belief of Eternal Security and how it was unbiblical, I found out that this was (for the most part) aligned with Protestantism. For I believe sin can separate a believer from God, unless they repent or confess of their sin to the Lord (1 John 1:9) (Proverbs 28:13).

Anyways, may God bless you today.
Ha ! Hi brother ..Yes ..labels . I did choose Anabaptist ( to be rebaptized ) as they align mostly with what I profess . ( The non-military ones that is .) As much as I am able ( by God's grace ) I am endeavoring to live a life worthy of the love God has shown me ...worst than the chief of sinners . I do not say that in false humility for God has shown me , me . What a lost and deluded individual . It is only by His grace that I repented and only by His grace that I can love Him and others . Brother ...May you be fruitful to His glory . Worthy is the Lamb of God .
PS ..One thing I think I learned over the doctrinal debates and bloodshed by believers through the centuries is Christ warnings ...be careful that the light which is in you be not darkness for if it is , how great is that darkness . Sow the peaceful fruit of righteousness and pray that I do as well .
 
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robwbright

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