• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Biblical examples of people who lost their salvation

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Miss Shelby, May 8, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. GreenEyedLady

    GreenEyedLady My little Dinky Doo

    +164
    Baptist
    Missy...WHO has said that someone has NO ROLE to play in their salvation??
    I think both sides are saying the SAME THING!
    GEL
     
  2. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

    +578
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    I don't beleive there are any Biblical examples of someone losing salvation.

    Why did Jesus die on a cross?

    Blessings
     
  3. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To Eldermike:

    What about Paul's list in Galatians?


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  4. MissytheButterfly

    MissytheButterfly Back and Better than EVER!

    +5
    Um..what are you talking about ? I think you mean Miss Shelby..not me..Missy..

    I think you have us mixed up.
     
  5. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

    +578
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Vow,

    I will answer your question about Galatians. There is not one example in Galatians about losing salvation. It's about trying to gain it by works. You have to read Paul's writings with His understanding of why Jesus came, taught, died, rose and lives in us today. Paul was frustrated at the Jews, even though He was one, trying to make the Good news just like the law.

    GAL 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.

    Gal 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

    Falling from grace is not falling from salvation. We are given grace before salvation. To set it aside is to reject it, so it must be there first if we can set it aside.

    21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

    GAL 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    Fruits of the flesh do not mean falling from salvation, it means there was no salvation. Paul says here "as I did before" before what? salvation!



    Could you answer my question?

    Why did Jesus die on a cross?

    Blessings
     
  6. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To Eldermike:

    I direct you to the quote from Galatians that you posted:

    That is pretty clear to me!

    Paul is talking to the CHURCH in Galatia. These people have already received the message of Christ's salvation. Paul is taking them one step further, telling them HOW they are to live in their walk with Christ.

    And the portion I boldfaced: If you do these things, you will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

    Paul is telling them, you can have the message, you can believe in Jesus, but IF YOU DO THESE THINGS....forget it!


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  7. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

    +578
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Vow,
    That is not what that means, not at all. "as I did before" means before salvation. You are taking this out of context. Paul is making contrast between the world and the church.

    How about my question?

    Blessings
     
  8. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To Eldermike:

    Where do you get a special translation about what Paul meant? How do you KNOW he meant "before salvation"? And what difference would it make if he had told the Galatians before salvation? PRIOR to salvation, it wouldn't make any difference WHAT they did! They could be saints or sinners, either one, and they still wouldn't have eternal life. Their behavior prior to salvation has nothing whatsoever to do with what they are now being warned NOT to do. "DON'T DO THIS OR YOU LOSE THE KINGDOM OF GOD."

    (and I want to finish this discussion before embarking upon another)


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  9. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

    +3,028
    Catholic
    Private
    Missy...WHO has said that someone has NO ROLE to play in their salvation??
    I think both sides are saying the SAME THING!
    GEL


    Perhaps I am misunderstanding it then. But when people who argue in favor of OSAS contend that being out of fellowship with God (fallen away) in no way impedes their salvation they are at very best minimizing man's own responsibility.

    Michelle
     
  10. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "Perhaps I am misunderstanding it then. But when people who argue in favor of OSAS contend that being out of fellowship with God (fallen away) in no way impedes their salvation they are at very best minimizing man's own responsibility. "

    Well an example that VOW brought up...was the protigal son evern not a son? Nope, but he sure was out of fellowship with his father. :)
     
  11. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To Louis:

    True, the Prodigal Son was always the child of his father....but while he was on the road, he didn't live at home, did he?

    And his father didn't MAKE him stay at home, either. He was terribly upset that the kid left, but he didn't prevent him from leaving.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  12. Ben johnson

    Ben johnson Legend Supporter

    +375
    Christian
    You are correct, the son never stopped being "his father's creation (begotten)". But, Luke 15:24 says, "This son of mine was DEAD, now has come to life AGAIN. He was lost and now is found." I don't think Jesus intended to portray a "lost & dead" person as "still-being-saved". When it says "alive again" (Greek: "Anazao"), it seems clear it is a allegory for regaining salvation...

    We are all, both saved and condemned, creations of God. We are all God's children.

    But, only to those who RECEIVE HIM, does He give the RIGHT to become children of God.

    "We have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us--- that you also may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. ...If we say we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth". 1Jn1

    I dunno, Louis---I can't imagine how we can have "saved-relationship" with Him, but be out of fellowship with Him. Looks to me like "fellowship with Jesus IS salvation".

    Salvation IS fellowship with Him.

    Both. Whatever...

    ;)
     
  13. eldermike

    eldermike Pray Supporter

    +578
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Vow,

    I read the Bible as it is supposed to be read. I do not speak for me, I speak for the one that called me.
    COL 3:15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.


    This is fruitless

    It is your view of the cross that keeps you from the freedom that Jesus gave you.

    Why did Jesus die on a cross?



    Blessings
     
  14. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

    +3,028
    Catholic
    Private
    Well an example that VOW brought up...was the protigal son evern not a son? Nope, but he sure was out of fellowship with his father.

    The Prodigal Son came back. That is what made the Father so happy. That is the example left for us.

    Michelle
     
  15. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

    +3,028
    Catholic
    Private
    It is your view of the cross that keeps you from the freedom that Jesus gave you.

    Do you mean the freedom to know and love God unconditionally and to grow in intimacy with Him..out of a heartfelt desire to love Him because what He did for us was out of a selfless perfect love so that He could have us back? Is the freedom you speak of the freedom of knowing who I am... A Blood bought Child of God? I know that freedom.

    But the Scriptures still give clear warnings about the dangers of falling away.

    Michelle
     
  16. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
     
  17. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
    Catholic
    Married
    To eldermike:

    That's nice, and I'm happy for you. I read the Bible with the wisdom, the understanding, and the teaching of the Holy Catholic Church. And the Church teaches OSNAS, one of the Scriptural evidences for this teaching is in that passage in Galatians I gave you.

    Through Sacred Tradition, the Church has a much better understanding of what Paul was trying to say than any one of us could possibly grasp. The picture here is one of Free Will. The Cross purchased our Salvation, this is true; however, the Cross did not remove or cancel, or take away Free Will. Free Will got us INTO Salvation, and Free Will, unfortunately, can break us away from it.

    God does not wish to lose our souls. But He cannot prevent us from being stupid, foolish, selfish, and blinded by Satan to the point where we would put our souls in jeopardy. THIS is what Paul is trying to tell us in Galatians.

    A careful examination of this discourse to the Galatians will show that Paul is talking to the EXISTING CHURCH MEMBERS. They have already heard the words of Jesus, and, hopefully, have become believers of Christ. But they are like little babies, new to faith, and they must LEARN how to live the Christian life. Paul is telling them, "Don't DO THESE THINGS, or you will LOSE the Kingdom of Heaven."


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  18. GreenEyedLady

    GreenEyedLady My little Dinky Doo

    +164
    Baptist
    ElderMike-
    Your right this is fruitless.
    I believe and I KNOW that I can NEVER lose my salvation. I KNOW what the bible has revealed to me. If others want to go and and not have that security, then there is nothing you can really do about it.
    I KNOW and I blieve that I am secure in the Lord...and so do you!
    :hug:
    GEL
     
  19. MissytheButterfly

    MissytheButterfly Back and Better than EVER!

    +5
    I have a question for those that believe in OSAS..what happen when you all sin...or don't you sin ? Can you just continue to live in sin, but as long as you say, "Oh, I am saved!" you can continue to keep breaking God's commands and still be saved ? Without consequences ?

    Do you think God just lets that go because you claim to be saved ? What about people that are saved and doing God's work but turn their back on him ? Don't they loose fellowship with him ? Or do they get a free pass ? For instance, like those priests that have been accused and some admit to molestation..you think these people have not lost their salvation ? Now this is not to say that they can't get back in fellowship if they sincerely ask for forgiveness.

    I am sorry but to me that just doesn't make logical sense. In the old testament, God was KILLING people left and right because they disobeyed him, and then he sent Jesus to die on the cross for the resmission of sins, but it never says in the bible that one can act however inconsistent way with God's commands and still be saved. We still have to follow God's word, we still have to have faith, we still must do works...

    Yes, all we have to do now is ask and believe to have salvation but in order to keep it one must work to keep it..how many things are just handed on a silver platter these days ? Not many.
     
  20. WayneH

    WayneH Washed in His Blood

    583
    +6
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    If what is being said - that we commit a sin we lose salvation - then why does 1st. cor. tell a different story

    51It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful natureA may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV
    Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved

    This is about fellow believers in Corinth that was being sexually immoral - but he wasn't told that he was lost forever - the church was told to hands him to satan so his sinful nature could be destroyed but his salvation was still assured... No One is saying you can live a life of sin once your saved - you should always strive to live a Christlike life.. 2nd Cor 5 says this

    . 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
    6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7We live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV
    Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved

    We're guarenteed what is to come - and the judgement seat for a Christian is for the rewards - good or bad - plenty or barely any...

    Ephesians 1 tells us also

    13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Excerpted from Compton's Interactive Bible NIV
    Copyright (c) 1994, 1995, 1996 SoftKey Multimedia Inc. All Rights Reserved


    How can there be a guarantee of inheritance if we can lose salvation... granted - we must always ask for repentance - but committing a sin doesn't lose our salvation - if that were the case - not one here would be seeing the strets of heaven..
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...