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Biblical examples of people who lost their salvation

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by Miss Shelby, May 8, 2002.

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  1. WayneH

    WayneH Washed in His Blood

    583
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    LOOK AT THE LIST !!!!

    are you going to tell Me that NO ONE here that calls themselves Christian hasn't done something on that list???? by your definition then NOT ONE Person will be going to heaven?? according to what you just said - there isn't a person EVER BORN that would go to heaven?? with the exception of Christ.. but no... even Christ woudl be excluded - because he had an outburst of fury in the Temple...

    Wow - looks like We all lost our salvation?? but we could never have it if we did anything on that list..

    Believe what you will - I'll go by the other way - and be assured if MY Salvation...




    Droobie.. God left the lights on at Motel 6 off rpute 95.... :clap:
     
  2. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
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    To Wayne:

    Of COURSE we are all guilty of things on that list!! That is why we must admit our need to RECONCILE with God, and to allow Him to HELP us back on the path of righteousness! We cannot do it alone! He will always have His hand extended in our direction!

    The OSNAS teaching does NOT mean we won't go to Heaven. Oh, my NO! But we have to recognize that we don't just sit complacently and wait to go to Heaven. We must get up and walk the path of righteousness. Even PAUL said he must finish the race!


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  3. WayneH

    WayneH Washed in His Blood

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    but you said if WE DO these things - and My contention is We have ALL done these things... so - by your definition in this post - NO ONE gets to Heaven... My contention is if We continue to do these things.....
     
  4. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
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    To Wayne:

    There is no "continue" in that verse! You are adding it. And what would it mean, anyway? If you do it once, it's okay? If you do it twice, you're in trouble? Or maybe three is the cut-off? I don't see any means to BARGAIN with God.

    YES, we all do those things! And they are most certainly, absolutely NOT Christian! That is why we have the possibility to reconcile with God, which is Scriptural.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  5. WayneH

    WayneH Washed in His Blood

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    HEY MISS KNOW IT ALL>..........

    I didn't add anything.............


    You are the one who SAID if YOU DO THESE THINGS - YOU LOSE THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN....... and I said NO ONE Will GET INTO HEAVEN because We have ALL DONE SOMETHING ON THAT LIST..

    What I said about continueing was exactly what you do - interpret what is there... and liek I said earlier - we are saved ONCE - christ died ONCE.. We can not be saved over and over again.. We are saved ONCE - washed ONCE...... after that its repentance of our wrongs.. not saving...
     
  6. VOW

    VOW Moderator

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    To Wayne:

    Thank you, but it's MRS Know it all to you, LOL.

    Besides, it's not MY interpretation, but that of the Catholic Church. And *I* didn't say you would lose the Kingdom of God, PAUL DID. And yes, you DID add "continuously" to that verse, to make it fit your theory of OSAS.

    Paul didn't give a number, he said, "Do these things, you LOSE the Kingdom of God." Take it up with Paul!


    Peace,
    ~VOW
     
  7. Defender of the Faith 777

    Defender of the Faith 777 Well-Known Member

    +4
    United Ch. of Christ
    Were Saul and Judas Iscariot, the betrayer of God incarnate, ever really Christians? By telling me that Satan entered their hearts, I know they were not. When you become a Christian, you accept the Holy Spirit in your heart. Satan cannot enter, God and Satan cannot co-exist.

    Let's remember David, the murderer and adulterer. He is now dwelling with God. Since salvation rests only in the finished work of Christ, and has nothing to do with any work or merit we do, then we cannot lose because of any lack of it. It is only by accepting God's grace, through faith (for you humble joe, lol) that we have salvation. Aren't y'all getting a little tired from repeating yourselves? I am, I'll probably not check back here.
     
  8. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

    +3,026
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    God and Satan cannot co-exist

    That's right. And Judas was given the power and authority to drive out demons in the name of Jesus. And Jesus stated that Satan cannot drive out Satan or the kingdom will be divided?.
    So how could Judas be Satan and have the power and authority to drive out demons in the name of Jesus?

    I actually saw one person try to argue that Judas didn't do it,(cast out the demons)-- even though he was given the power to do it by Jesus and commisioned to do so by Jesus.

    Michelle
     
  9. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    1 Corinthians 6
    9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    Where in the above verses does it say you can lose your salvation, I can't see it?
    Julie :pink:


    Romans 14:17
    For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.


    Galatians 5:21
    Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


    1 Corinthians 15:50
    Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
     
  10. Ben johnson

    Ben johnson Legend Supporter

    +375
    Christian
    Tell me the truth---do you believe we can be "out of Fellowship with Him", living in sin, (fornication, drunkenness, carousing...), we can even DENY JESUS before men...

    But you believe still saved and WILL walk the streets of Heaven???

    Do you believe that?
     
  11. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    Ben johnson, Do you have 2 natures or one?
    JuliE :pink:
     
  12. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    +15
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    To Julie:

    Paul stated it in the verse you quoted:
    He is talking to the members of the church of Galatia, and telling them, you are of the Spirit now, and if you do these things, YOU WILL LOSE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

    Paul wouldn't even bother giving a detailed list to those who are NOT members of the church, for unless they know God, they won't inherit the Kingdom of God anyway.



    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  13. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
    Are the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven the same thing?
    Julie :pink:
     
  14. Defender of the Faith 777

    Defender of the Faith 777 Well-Known Member

    +4
    United Ch. of Christ
    To Ben Johnson: Do I believe that? Absolutely! We can stand justified before God, EVEN IF WE DO SIN after we become a Christian, as King David did. God knows we'll mess up, He understands. HE WAS HERE. How can we go to heaven even if we do commit some of those sins? Because God died as us, for us.

    VOW, if "murederers don't go to heaven" then I take it David is burning in hell, as will we, because it is our fault that Christ died. If our sins have been forgiven, we are not condemned for them!

    To Shelby: If Judas was a Christian, then he couldn't be possessed by Satan. Not only that, but being a Christian is realizing God's forgiveness for sins. Judas wouldn't have killed himself if he had already asked for forgiveness for those sins.
     
  15. Miss Shelby

    Miss Shelby Legend

    +3,026
    Catholic
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    To Shelby: If Judas was a Christian, then he couldn't be possessed by Satan. Not only that, but being a Christian is realizing God's forgiveness for sins. Judas wouldn't have killed himself if he had already asked for forgiveness for those sins.

    He could be possessed by satan if he had apostasized from the faith. How could he peform miracles in Jesus name (casting out the demons in particular) when the Scripture clearly says that satan cannot cast out satan?

    Michelle
     
  16. Ben johnson

    Ben johnson Legend Supporter

    +375
    Christian
    May I ask a favor? Can I trouble you to look up:
    Matt7:18-20
    1Cor6:9-10
    Gal5:19-21
    Heb10:26-27
    Rom6:1-2
    Gal2:17-20 (esp vs 18: "If I rebuild SIN")
    2Tim2:12
    Matt10:32-33
    1Jn1:3,5

    Please help me to understand how I can be "in-saved-relationship-with-God", but not in fellowship with Him? How can I be "practicing sinning", just as the unsaved-Gentiles do, but I shall still "dwell in the house of the Lord forever"?

    What is it that saves me? What is it that separates me from one of the "unsaved-of-the-world"?
     
  17. VOW

    VOW Moderator

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    To Defender:

    Take the question up with Paul, HE is the of the list of things you cannot do and still inherit the Kingdom of God.

    OSNAS doesn't mean you have one chance, and if you blow it, you've got a one-way ticket to Hell. It means that you must continue to walk on the path of righteousness. You don't "get saved" and then park on your fanny. You have to get up and WALK to Heaven. You'll probably fall, most of us do. But if you STAY fallen, and don't reconcile yourself to God after breaking one of the rules that Paul gives, then you'll sit there for all eternity.

    God gives you a compass and a road map and a guide. But NOT a piggy-back ride! Even PAUL discusses the journey he's on!


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  18. supermagdalena

    supermagdalena The Shrubs and the Flan.

    +25
    Non-Denom
    First, Wayne H- Thank you for speaking up :)

    VOW - Okay, what if you fall and die? Say I had died in the slump that I was in for the past few days? I would've gone to Hell? So "saved" is totally conditional, and we should never say "we are saved", but rather, "I might be saved, it depends on when I die".

    I run into many people who hold this opinion, and here is one question ALWAYS dodged (you will clear how I feel about these people totally up, so pleeeease do), if you died, right this second, would you go to Heaven? Or have you envyed in the past twenty four hours? Or had a bad thought? Don't have a double standard. Hold it up against yourself and see how YOU hold up. If you hold up fine, TRULY, then yes, you can talk. But if not, you might have some thinking to do.
     
  19. VOW

    VOW Moderator

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    To Maggie:

    I believe what the Catholic Church teaches. If I die, and my soul is NOT in a state of mortal sin, then I will get to Heaven. If I, however, have died while in the process of committing a sin, then I must be cleansed of that sin before my soul can enter into the presence of the most Holy God. God detests sin, and whatever I have on my soul, my "works" must be burned away, as described in Paul in Corinthians. The sinful works are the hay, the straw, the wood, they will burn to ash and fall away. My goodness will survive the fire of purification and will shine brightly in the presence of God, like gold, silver, and precious jewels.


    Peace be with you,
    ~VOW
     
  20. Julie

    Julie ONLY JESUS CHRIST SAVES

    +4
    Christian
     
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