Biblical evidence for not observing the Sabbath

[godenver1]

Please, Baptist only.

SDAs are very good at using Scripture to justify their Sabbath observance. How would you as a Baptist use the Bible to prove Christians don't have to observe the Sabbath?

(I've asked this question on the Lutheran board, too, but I respect the biblicism of the Baptist tradition and wanted your thoughts on the matter)

 

[morse86]

Colossians 2:1:
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Hebrews 4:4-10:
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 

[godenver1]

Hi Morse,

How would you respond to the claim that 'Sabbath' in Colossians 2:16 doesn't refer to weekly Sabbaths, but sabbaths of another kind?

 

[morse86]

It's symbolic of the rest we have in Jesus.

Romans 14:5-9:
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi @godenver1, here's another verse that comes to mind.

Romans 14
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.​

Hi Morse,

​

How would you respond to the claim that 'Sabbath' in Colossians 2:16 doesn't refer to weekly Sabbaths, but sabbaths of another kind?

This is where I would begin anyway (and I hope you two don't mind me jumping in?).

V16 speaks of various Jewish religious observances, including the weekly Sabbath, and v17 confirms that fact, that these observances were the "shadow of what is to come", the reality is found in Christ. Therefore the Sabbath Paul was referring to was the weekly Sabbath of the Jews (it could be no other).

Colossians 2
16 No one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—
17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.​

--David

 

[godenver1]

Thanks for your insight, David. What do you mean that Colossains 2:16 could 'be no other' than the weekly Sabbath. Currently, I have SDAs telling me that it refers to the sabbaths of Leviticus 23:16, which isn't the weekly sabbath

 

[St_Worm2]

Thanks for your insight, David. What do you mean that Colossains 2:16 could 'be no other' than the weekly Sabbath. Currently, I have SDAs telling me that it refers to the sabbaths of Leviticus 23:16, which isn't the weekly sabbath

The Shavuot, also called the Feast of Weeks and the Feast of the Harvest (what Christians call Pentecost) still occurs on the Sabbath for Jews, so I'm not sure what they're trying to say.

The SDA's have a presupposition that needs to be proven, a presupposition that is so important to them that they decided to name themselves with it, so they had to come up with something to disprove the traditional and nearly universal understanding of verses like Col 2:16.

I'll look into it and get back to you though (and I'll ask one of my SDA friends to explain it from their POV if I feel it's necessary to as well).

What they believe is the minority report as no one else (no other church in Christendom) believes what they do, so the onus (it seems to me anyway) is on them to prove it. Quite frankly, since the Bible calls Sunday "the Lord's Day", I think it's pretty unlikely that they will be successful (there are some pretty intelligent SDA's around here who know their Bibles however, so we shall see).

--David

 

[godenver1]

Thanks David. I'd love to hear your response. I'll edit this post with a link to the SDA argument. I'm just not sure how to respond to it.


Edit: here are the arguments that beat me: "Sabbath" in Colossians 2:16 - Ministry Magazine

 

[St_Worm2]

Thanks, I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

 

[DeaconDean]

Dear OP,

First and foremost, you have to understand that in the SDA system, there are some parts of the OT "Law" that they believe are still "in effect".

They tend to forget to "Whom" was the "Torah" specifically addressed to when God gave it on Mt. Sinai.

We have, from the First Apostolic Council, in Jerusalem, around AD 40, what they said from the "Torah" applied to Gentile Christians. (cf. Acts 15:13-20)

Also, remember that nobody knew the "Torah" better than Jesus. He was, after all, co-author. Yet in the Gospel records, we see Jesus doing all sorts of things on the "Sabbath".

He even gave us examples of what we should do when certain situations would arise on the Sabbath.

Evidently, there are not any SDA's who own a dairy farm. 2x a day, 7 days a week, dairy cows must be milked. You cannot put off one day just because its "Sunday, or Saturday".

If you live out in the country, far from a fire department, and your neighbors house catches on fire, are you going to ignore it because its a "Sabbath"? Of course not. Love thy brother! If there house is on fire, grab a hose and help put it out or help his family escape.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." -Gal. 5:22-23 (KJV)

What the SDA's forget, is the "spirit" of the Law. No ritual "Law observance" will get you in heaven or earn you any rewards. (In fact, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for doing this exact same thing!) The "Spirit" of the 4th commandment is to keep one day in seven as your "Sabbath", your day of rest from your earthy work and to worship Him.

There is also:

"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's." -Lk. 20:25 (KJV)

Now for a long while, my Caesar, (my job) required me to work on Sundays. If I were a SDA, I'd have to either refuse to work on the Sabbath, or find another job.

In fact, my church knew that I worked 11pm to 7am on Saturday nights and rarely could make it Sunday morning services. But I was there any other time the church doors were open. And, after some time, I was also asked to become a Deacon, and was later on, licensened to preach by my church.

Following standard SDA practices, all that would have eliminated from becoming a Deacon, or even preaching.

So what will I eventually be judged on, how well I have "ritually' kept the 4th commandment? Or keeping the "spirit" of the law? (1 day in seven to rest and worship)

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[rstrats]

St_Worm2,
re: "Quite frankly, since the Bible calls Sunday 'the Lord's Day..."

If by Sunday you mean the 1st day of the week, I'm not aware of any scripture which refers to the 1st day of the week as the Lord's Day. What do you have in mind?

 

[rstrats]

Romans 14 and Colossians 2:16 and 17 have been suggested as support for the discontinuance of the weekly Sabbath for Christians. However, those scriptures are not really applicable for that support since they don't say anything about not observing the 4th commandment (3rd if your RC). So then, other scriptures will need to be found -and I'm not aware of any - which prove what the OP is requesting.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

The truth is a little deeper.

The Old Testament sabbath was based on a lunar calendar. The weeks corresponded to phases of the moon. The modern week and month that we currently observe also trace their roots to lunar cycles, but the old Hebrew calendar was more strictly lunar, whereas today's solar calendar is only a lunar schedule by rough approximation. At the time, the lunar phases were regarded as seven-day periods, with an adjustment made every month at the new moon.

Seventh Day Adventists often use the argument of "special sabbaths," as though these were days that fell outside of the usual seven-day pattern. While it is true that these sabbaths were special in the ceremonial sense, they never happened on any other day than the usual sabbath day. The fact that Yom Kippur always landed on a sabbath, yet it was always the first day of the same month every year, and the month strictly followed the phases of the moon, presents a mathematical impossibility for the Seventh Day assertion that the sabbath was always on Saturday. It would have been impossible, because that day would have necessarily landed on a different day of the week every year if they had been following a solar calendar like ours. Therefore, to duck this problem, they call these sabbath holidays "special" in the sense of their timing, when they were not timed differently than any other sabbath, but they were really only special in the way they were observed.

Hence, Saturday is not the same sabbath day that the Jews have adhered to since the beginning. It could not have been. Granted, it's not Sunday, either. However, if they wish to condemn others for not recognizing the exact established day of the Sabbath, then they condemn themselves.

 

[rstrats]

What documentation do you have which shows that the seven day weekly cycle has been interrupted at any time between the New Testament period and now?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

What documentation do you have which shows that the seven day weekly cycle has been interrupted at any time between the New Testament period and now?

Who are you talking to? I never claimed that (if you were talking to me).

 

[rstrats]

nonaeroterraqueo,
re: "Who are you talking to? I never claimed that (if you were talking to me)."
I was. When you wrote "... Saturday is not the same sabbath day that the Jews have adhered to since the beginning." I thought you were saying that the 7 day cycle has been interrupted. So I guess I don't understand what you're saying with regard to the cyclical consistency of 7th day of the week Sabbath.

 

[rstrats]

Deleted.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I thought you were saying that the 7 day cycle has been interrupted. So I guess I don't understand what you're saying with regard to the cyclical consistency of 7th day of the week Sabbath.

What you referred to was that the seven day solar week had been interrupted between the New Testament and now. I didn't say that. It was that the lunar week had been converted into a solar week sometime after the Old Testament.

This thread is where I first encountered the point from someone else, who was debating a Seventh Day Adventist. The author of that thread had since given me more links via private messages to a much more detailed explanation, which was more than I needed. The average person might read his arguments and completely miss the point. I know I had to read it more than once to see what he was getting at. You have to do the math to get it, and you have to read closely. All of the clues are right there in the Bible. The Adventist never got it because he wasn't open to the idea.

The fact is that the original Sabbath was based on phases of the moon, which were assumed to be seven days apart, with a leap during the new moon. This is a historical fact, that the monthly calendar, everywhere, and the weeks of the month, everywhere, were counted according to the phases of the moon. The Romans were the first culture, anywhere, to standardize the week into an absolute set of seven days, indifferent to the moon. The old Hebrew week, which was pre-Roman, had to be a lunar week, which meant that it was seven days long, with a leap day or two during the new moon. That means the sabbath, though referred to as the seventh day, was not locked into Saturday, or any other day of our week, because they did not reckon time the way we did. It's all there in the Old Testament. It isn't spelled out, but if you pay attention and do the math, then the proof is definitely there.

 

[rstrats]

nonaeroterraqueo,

Would the Messiah have needed to know when the Sabbath was in order to observe the 4th commandment (3rd if you're RC) so that He could remain sinless?

 

[Brighid]

Please, Baptist only.

SDAs are very good at using Scripture to justify their Sabbath observance. How would you as a Baptist use the Bible to prove Christians don't have to observe the Sabbath?

(I've asked this question on the Lutheran board, too, but I respect the biblicism of the Baptist tradition and wanted your thoughts on the matter)

Every day is the Sabbath because we rest in Christ. We can go to church any day.