Biblical definition of "the church"

[ArmyMatt]

How does the Holy Spirit view confession or Grace?

grace is the operation and energy of God, given freely as He sees fit. confession is simply one of the things Christ commands of us, and Christ gives the Apostles the ability to loose and bind after He gives them the Holy Spirit. it has nothing to do with legislation at all.

also, if you knew how often the heretic was the intellectual, corrected by the simple piety of the common believers, you would know how foolish your statement about how we read Scripture is.

 

[ClementofA]

Scripture above all, which we adhere to, is not the same as Scripture alone.

What do you consider Old Testament Scriptures? The Theodotion Greek translation? Is it inspired?

 

[ArmyMatt]

What do you consider Old Testament Scriptures? The Theodotion Greek translation? Is it inspired?

we use the Septuagint as our OT, as that was the OT at the time that Christ, the Apostles, and the earliest Christians all used.

 

[ClementofA]

we use the Septuagint as our OT, as that was the OT at the time that Christ, the Apostles, and the earliest Christians all used.

The Theodotion Greek translation? Is it considered inspired? Inerrant?

 

[ArmyMatt]

The Theodotion Greek translation? Is it considered inspired? Inerrant?

I am not sure about the Theodotion Greek translation. but even if the text is inspired and inerrant, what does that do if the human reading it is not? every Christian can be handed the same Scripture and come to different conclusions, so lots of folks are erroneously reading an inerrant text.

 

[ClementofA]

I am not sure about the Theodotion Greek translation. but even if the text is inspired and inerrant, what does that do if the human reading it is not? every Christian can be handed the same Scripture and come to different conclusions, so lots of folks are erroneously reading an inerrant text.

That's true.

I thought i read somewhere EO use Theodotions Greek translation, but can't find the source ATM.

Do Catholics, Coptics or any other Christian groups consider the LXX as their Scriptures? Just wondering.

Here's a book on the EO view of OT Scripture:

The Old Testament in Eastern Orthodox Tradition
By Eugen J. Pentiuc

The Old Testament in Eastern Orthodox Tradition

 

[ArmyMatt]

That's true. Here's a book on the EO view of OT Scripture:

The Old Testament in Eastern Orthodox Tradition
By Eugen J. Pentiuc

The Old Testament in Eastern Orthodox Tradition

and?

 

[ClementofA]

I am not sure about the Theodotion Greek translation. but even if the text is inspired and inerrant, what does that do if the human reading it is not? every Christian can be handed the same Scripture and come to different conclusions, so lots of folks are erroneously reading an inerrant text.

I thought i read somewhere EO use Theodotions Greek translation, but can't find the source ATM.

Do Catholics, Coptics or any other Christian groups consider the LXX as their Scriptures? Just wondering.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I thought i read somewhere EO use Theodotions Greek translation, but can't find the source ATM.

Do Catholics, Coptics or any other Christian groups consider the LXX as their Scriptures? Just wondering.

Rome uses a shorter canon, not sure about the Copts. either way, that doesn't matter as much as proper understanding.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I know the Ethiopian canon is longer. I'm not sure if it is shared by all OO. Had a hard time pinning down good info on who uses what.


I'm curious how Rome ended up with a different canon, since the Church was still one in the early days. I thought it had been decided before they left?

All I've been able to find is that we use the Septuagint (I knew that) and that in the same way Rome uses the Latin Vulgate. I'm not sure if that's comparable to say or not. I thought they MADE the Latin Vulgate.

I don't want to cause a derail over a minor curiosity on my part though, and this could be a big question. I'm not sure.

 

[ClementofA]

Didn't Jerome make the Latin Vulgate translation?

 

[ArmyMatt]

yep he did

 

[buzuxi02]

The EO canon is the same as the Codex Alexandrinus & Sinaiticus. With the caveat that 4Maccabees and the Epistle of Barnabas are disputed books. This is roughly the same as recognized by the Copts, but not the Ethiopians. The Ethiopians include the Ascension of Enoch and maybe one additional OT text.

 

[buzuxi02]

I'm curious how Rome ended up with a different canon, since the Church was still one in the early days. I thought it had been decided before they left?

All I've been able to find is that we use the Septuagint (I knew that) and that in the same way Rome uses the Latin Vulgate. I'm not sure if that's comparable to say or not. I thought they MADE the Latin Vulgate.
.

The official Latin bible follows Canon 24 of Carthage of the African code. It lists the deuterocanonical books minus three.
It lists the NT books as we know. In the original wording of canon 24 the book of Hebrews was listed seperate from the other epistles of Paul. If you read Eusebius the historian who wrote decades earlier this is because Rome considered Hebrews as disputed while the rest of the church accrpted it. Eusebius also listed 2Peter and Revelation as disputed books.

In Orthodoxy we have approved canons of lists of books which are not exhaustive. For example Canon 24 of Carthage and Athanasius list contain Revelation. While canons 59 & 60 of Laodicea, the canonical list of St Gregory Nazianzen and a few others omit it. All these lists though make certain that canonical books are only those books sanctioned to be read in Liturgy. The list of books in these numerous canons also acknowledge a second tier of books not read in liturgy but are worthy. These incluse 1 & 2 Clement (canon 80 of holy apostles), the Shepherd, and Didache (Athanasios 39th epistle), and Revelation (implied)

 

[ClementofA]

The EO canon is the same as the Codex Alexandrinus & Sinaiticus. With the caveat that 4Maccabees and the Epistle of Barnabas are disputed books. This is roughly the same as recognized by the Copts, but not the Ethiopians. The Ethiopians include the Ascension of Enoch and maybe one additional OT text.

What do the Oriental Orthodox (3rd largest church) consider as Scripture? Is this the Ethiopian church you refer to:

Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church - Wikipedia


I'm wondering if you know of an online source that supports your comments. Any other references, such as to books that could be found in a library, would also be helpful.

FWIW, according to the following url:

"The official bible of the Orthodox Church contains the Septuagint text of the Old Testament, with the Book of Daniel given in the translation by Theodotion..."

"While divinely inspired, the text stills consists of words in human languages, arranged in humanly recognizable forms."

Eastern Orthodox Church - Wikipedia

 

[~Anastasia~]

What do the Oriental Orthodox (3rd largest church) consider as Scripture? Is this the Ethiopian church you refer to:

Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church - Wikipedia


I'm wondering if you know of an online source that supports your comments. Any other references, such as to books that could be found in a library, would also be helpful.

FWIW, according to the following url:

"The official bible of the Orthodox Church contains the Septuagint text of the Old Testament, with the Book of Daniel given in the translation by Theodotion..."

"While divinely inspired, the text stills consists of words in human languages, arranged in humanly recognizable forms."

Eastern Orthodox Church - Wikipedia

I think the Ethiopian Church is part of the OO, but there are other parts of the OO as well. According to what was listed above (which source I trust) ... the OO does not have a unified canon, since the Ethiopians accept a slightly wider number of books.

 

[buzuxi02]

The Coptic Church (along with the Syriac and Armenians) follow the same canon as the Eastern Orthodox. The Ethiopians were part of the seperate Kingdom of Axum, so they had their own peculiar influences apart from the Roman Empire. Its possible that the Ge'ez Ethiopic text of 1 Enoch was directly translated from the original aramaic as there were jewish influences in Ethiopia at the time. The book Josippon is an interesting addition in their canon, seems to be a late addition (maybe 11th century) and was a historical book read by the jews in the diaspora of the middle ages. The other Ethiopian OT book considered canonical by them is the Book of Jubilees which was certainly an original jewish text in use by Ethiopian jews which was then adopted by the ethiopian christians.

Book of Jubilees - Wikipedia