Biblical Battered Wife Syndrome

[motherprayer]

I posted this in Survivors of Abuse, but I wanted to post it here. I believe this is a message that needs to be shared:

I am going to write about something that is on my heart. You can attribute this to my experience or not, you can make conjecture as to whether I am speaking about myself or not, I will make that YOUR choice. MY choice is to write about this, because I feel God has called me to. There is a problem that is running rampant among believers and churches, and it needs to be dealt with. It is something I have witnessed friends go through, and I pray that God will relieve their hurt. Here is a quote taken from a domestic violence website:
A woman I'll call "Marleen" went to her pastor for help. "My husband is abusing me," she told him. "Last week he knocked me down and kicked me. He broke one of my ribs."Marleen's pastor was sympathetic. He prayed with Marleen--and then he sent her home. "Try to be more submissive," he advised. "After all, your husband is your spiritual head."Two weeks later, Marleen was dead--killed by an abusive husband. Her church could not believe it. Marleen's husband was a Sunday school teacher and a deacon. How could he have done such a thing?
This experience is all too common. Biblically speaking, God hates divorce. God wants us to find THE person we are meant to be with, and then marry them and live with them until death do us part. But what does a woman do when she feels that her death may be brought about by the man she has married?
FACT: More than 32 million Americans are affected by domestic violence each year.
Some of these 32 million women are Christians. SOME of these 32 million turn to their church for help. Some of these 32 million are regular church attendees who, when they find themselves at a point when they HAVE to leave or risk permanant damage to themselves or their children, find that the only piece of advice their church leaders can give is to "Go back and work things out with your husband." And then, when faced with that advice, advice that goes against any advocate or counsellor's warning to stay away for safety's sake, some of those 32 million go back. And some of those 32 million never get another chance to get out.
FACT: About 25 percent of Christian homes witness abuse of some kind.
This means that roughly 8 million Christian women are being abused RIGHT NOW. Not only that, but if you look a bit further, this means that a lot of them (I could not find a number, but even ONE is A LOT) are being counselled by their church elders and leaders. Another quote from the same site:
George sites a survey in which nearly 6,000 pastors were asked how they would counsel women who came to them for help with domestic violence. Twenty-six percent would counsel them the same way Marleen's pastor did: to continue to "submit" to her husband, no matter what. Twenty-five percent told wives the abuse was their own fault--for failing to submit in the first place. Astonishingly, 50 percent said women should be willing to "tolerate some level of violence" because it is better than divorce.
Here's another fact for you, this time about the psychology of battered women. THESE WOMEN ARE ALREADY QUESTIONING THEIR REALITY, THEIR SANITY. Imagine how it would feel to a woman who has been torn down physically and mentally to be told BY SOMEONE THEY RESPECT that they need to submit. These women are being ABUSED, and then told that they need to "control their responses" to someone who is themselves out of control. And the worst part is, they are being told these things by people they RESPECT, by the very same people who tell them that all things work together for the good of those people who believe in God - the same people who tell them that God is working FOR them are telling them to continue in a situation that is TOXIC.

I tell you this, if a friend comes to you and tells you that her husband is violent - and violence occurs with words AND with fists - tell her to get out. Not only this, but if she tells you that she has to tell any male who calls her to not call when he is home, tell her to get out. If she tells you that he screams at her when the house isn't clean, tell her to get out. If she tells you that he tells her she is a bad mom, a bad wife, a bad ANYTHING, tell her to get out. And if she tells you that her church said that all of these things are ok? Tell her to find a new church. Because her church is being just as abusive as her husband, by condoning HIS actions, and making her think that she should stay.

 

[Sketcher]

Getting to safety is important when she is in danger, but getting to safety does not mean divorce.

 

[motherprayer]

This post was not about divorce. There is healing for abusers and victims, but in order for that to come, they need spiritual counselling from a person who understands the situation.

I wrote this article while I was separated from my husband because of his anger, a long time ago. We have since been reunited.

 

[Sketcher]

Good to hear. Lots of other people would read that and take it as though it is about divorce, which would be tragic since you didn't intend it to be that way. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[147]

Would you say the same thing to a man in the same situation, only the church repeatedly tells him he has to establish headship over his abusive wife?

 

[motherprayer]

Absolutely!

 

[Emily Christine]

So glad you both are reunited. I pray God is ever so close to you both. A relationship is so difficult when the other spouse isn't in relationship with God.

 

[razzelflabben]

I posted this in Survivors of Abuse, but I wanted to post it here. I believe this is a message that needs to be shared:

I am going to write about something that is on my heart. You can attribute this to my experience or not, you can make conjecture as to whether I am speaking about myself or not, I will make that YOUR choice. MY choice is to write about this, because I feel God has called me to. There is a problem that is running rampant among believers and churches, and it needs to be dealt with. It is something I have witnessed friends go through, and I pray that God will relieve their hurt. Here is a quote taken from a domestic violence website:
A woman I'll call "Marleen" went to her pastor for help. "My husband is abusing me," she told him. "Last week he knocked me down and kicked me. He broke one of my ribs."Marleen's pastor was sympathetic. He prayed with Marleen--and then he sent her home. "Try to be more submissive," he advised. "After all, your husband is your spiritual head."Two weeks later, Marleen was dead--killed by an abusive husband. Her church could not believe it. Marleen's husband was a Sunday school teacher and a deacon. How could he have done such a thing?
This experience is all too common. Biblically speaking, God hates divorce. God wants us to find THE person we are meant to be with, and then marry them and live with them until death do us part. But what does a woman do when she feels that her death may be brought about by the man she has married?
FACT: More than 32 million Americans are affected by domestic violence each year.
Some of these 32 million women are Christians. SOME of these 32 million turn to their church for help. Some of these 32 million are regular church attendees who, when they find themselves at a point when they HAVE to leave or risk permanant damage to themselves or their children, find that the only piece of advice their church leaders can give is to "Go back and work things out with your husband." And then, when faced with that advice, advice that goes against any advocate or counsellor's warning to stay away for safety's sake, some of those 32 million go back. And some of those 32 million never get another chance to get out.
FACT: About 25 percent of Christian homes witness abuse of some kind.
This means that roughly 8 million Christian women are being abused RIGHT NOW. Not only that, but if you look a bit further, this means that a lot of them (I could not find a number, but even ONE is A LOT) are being counselled by their church elders and leaders. Another quote from the same site:
George sites a survey in which nearly 6,000 pastors were asked how they would counsel women who came to them for help with domestic violence. Twenty-six percent would counsel them the same way Marleen's pastor did: to continue to "submit" to her husband, no matter what. Twenty-five percent told wives the abuse was their own fault--for failing to submit in the first place. Astonishingly, 50 percent said women should be willing to "tolerate some level of violence" because it is better than divorce.
Here's another fact for you, this time about the psychology of battered women. THESE WOMEN ARE ALREADY QUESTIONING THEIR REALITY, THEIR SANITY. Imagine how it would feel to a woman who has been torn down physically and mentally to be told BY SOMEONE THEY RESPECT that they need to submit. These women are being ABUSED, and then told that they need to "control their responses" to someone who is themselves out of control. And the worst part is, they are being told these things by people they RESPECT, by the very same people who tell them that all things work together for the good of those people who believe in God - the same people who tell them that God is working FOR them are telling them to continue in a situation that is TOXIC.

I tell you this, if a friend comes to you and tells you that her husband is violent - and violence occurs with words AND with fists - tell her to get out. Not only this, but if she tells you that she has to tell any male who calls her to not call when he is home, tell her to get out. If she tells you that he screams at her when the house isn't clean, tell her to get out. If she tells you that he tells her she is a bad mom, a bad wife, a bad ANYTHING, tell her to get out. And if she tells you that her church said that all of these things are ok? Tell her to find a new church. Because her church is being just as abusive as her husband, by condoning HIS actions, and making her think that she should stay.

because of what God has called us to ministry wise, I would like to ask a question. Before I do, however, let me say two things to avoid any confusion. 1. I whole heartedly agree, if there is abuse, get out...find safety. 2. I think if we really understood what submission means, it would be sound advice, but we twist it into meaning that you stay in a toxic relationship...we do the same with Love, and that simply isn't what it means.

that being said, I want to know what and how you think scripture tells us to deal with an abusive marriage situation....please keep in mind, this question doesn't suggest staying, in fact, I think there is grounds in scripture, though somewhat shaky to advice them to leave...most leaving advice is common sense not scriptural, so what I'm asking for my own benefit, is how does God want us to deal with it, according to scripture? Any thoughts.

I'm so afraid someone will take my question the wrong way, so let me put down a couple of early thoughts. 1. submission in a non military meaning, means to work with, so, in marriage where the goal should be mutual righteousness, leaving the abusive spouse is right on the money. It means that I am not allowing you to continue in your sin by staying in a situation that permits your sin. 2. I Cor. 13 love rejoices in the truth, the truth in this situation, though difficult to accept is that the abusing spouse is abusive and needs transformed by the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. it also means that the abused is to continue to love the abuser, but this means things (in a toxic relationship) like praying for their healing, removing temptation (like to abuse, by leaving), to forgive, etc. it doesn't mean stay.

That is just an example of what I am looking for in this question...I would appreciate any thoughts...

 

[motherprayer]

that being said, I want to know what and how you think scripture tells us to deal with an abusive marriage situation....please keep in mind, this question doesn't suggest staying, in fact, I think there is grounds in scripture, though somewhat shaky to advice them to leave...most leaving advice is common sense not scriptural, so what I'm asking for my own benefit, is how does God want us to deal with it, according to scripture? Any thoughts.

What an awesome question! This here is the question few ever ask, for two reasons, I believe:
1) Rarely do victimized spouses in these situations honestly seek help for their struggle. When they do, they more often turn to secular authorities rather than attempting to deal with the problem on a spiritual level.
2) The church has a few misguided concepts of the spirit of abuse, and these lead to a lack of educated advice coming from leaders who do encounter domestic violence situations. "Be more submissive" is a commonly used phrase by church leaders who are approached for advice in this. That is not only unhelpful, but it puts the responsibility for a change on the person, rather than on Christ.

That being said, in my situation, I was given wisdom from God that this was a spiritual battle, and the only way to "win" it was to allow God to work.
These Scriptures helped me, and I will share how:
Ephesians 1:21 "Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come"
This is a lesser known counterpart to the verse in Romans telling us that our battle is not against flesh and blood. It taught me that not only is "my" battle against the unseen forces of this world, but it is not even my battle to fight! I could not win this alone, in fact I could not win this at ALL. Knowing this, I realized that every attempt on my behalf to "find a way" to make things right was actually hindering God's ability to act on my behalf. Also see Proverbs 3:5-6
Jeremiah 29:11-14
God knows His divine plan for us, and His plan is not for us to come to any kind of harm, physically, emotionally, or spiritually. This means that when we place ourselves in harm's way, we are acting outside of His will. His plans are for hope and a future, and if we listen to hear His voice, He will show us the way to go. I took verse 14 personally, as God speaking to me that I did, and no woman does, not deserve to be held captive, either by an abusive partner, or by a church mandate that leaving means divorce, which means leaving itself is wrong.
Phillipians 4:6-7
The request of any abused woman is to be kept safe from harm, and the request of a Christian abused woman should be for restoration of her marriage, which IS possible, by the grace of God's miraculous intervention. It is very important to remember that God can do anything, and that His ultimate desire for us is that we follow His will, forsaking all else. We can't get to the "peace that surpasses all understanding" if we don't fully surrender our fear, our desire, and our pain to Christ.
Mark 10:1-12
These are Jesus' commands regarding marriage, and they are so much simpler than today's standards of how marriage is handled. Verse 5 implies that the ONLY reason Moses gave a circumstance that allowed for divorce was the "hardness of their hearts." This is a hard Truth to digest for those who are dealing with a spouse who does not treat them properly, but it is still a Truth nonetheless. Verses 6 through 8 contain a truth that I believe should be taught to children, should be firmly instilled long before a person is old enough to entertain thoughts of marrying. There would be fewer divorces if the understanding before getting married was that it is an irreversible decision. Sadly, there would probably be fewer marriages also.
Ephesians 5:22-30
These are probably some of the most controversial verses in the Bible. Wives are given the instruction to submit to their husbands, and the first response out of many women's mouths is "Why should I submit to a man who will abuse my submission?" But first, before we go there, let's look at Verse 25, which instructs the husband to love his wife as Christ loved the church. Christ was gentle and kind, and while He did get angry (as shown when He turned over tables in the Temple), He never used that anger as an excuse to harm others. This is how husbands are called to treat their wives. So we have two separate instructions, given to two separate groups of people. There is also no instruction given for "when the other person doesn't do their part." It doesn't say, "Wives, submit to your husbands, but only if they act right." It doesn't say, "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church, but only if they do their part." This is important. Christ leaves us with no excuse. This means we have to do our part, even WHEN our spouse doesn't do theirs.
1 Corinthians 7:10-11
Another pair of controversial verses, these instruct that if a woman (and I do believe this applies to men also) ends up in a situation where a marriage is irreconcilable, she should remain unmarried. This spoke to me when I left my husband, and told me that at that point, there could be only two possible outcomes: either I would reconcile with him, or I would raise my children alone. I didnt like that knowledge, but there it was.
NOTE: Please, as you read, try not to have the impression that I am judging anyone by my words. I am only speaking my own personal understanding of what Scripture has spoken to me, and do not condemn those who believe differently from me.
1 Peter 3:8-9
In the beginning of 1 Peter, similiar instruction is given as in Ephesians 5, but these two verses command us to keep from taking vengeance on those who have hurt us, and I believe are spoken specifically to husbands and wives who, in a worldly sense, have "every right" to do so. We have to remember that there is only one true judge in our lives, and He would not give us place to sit in the judgment seat ourselves, as no one person has enough knowledge OR wisdom to do that. So our place, when we have been wronged and are hurting, is at the cross, crying out to God to take our anger from us, to remind that we all will receive due reward for our actions here on earth, and those who have hurt us will receive theirs.
Finally, Mattew 18:21-22
One of the most difficult things for a relationship dealing with and healing from domestic violence is forgiveness. When we have been wronged, and unless we forgive totally, we carry a piece of that wrong on our heart, and our flesh cries out for justice to be meted. Our flesh believes that the wrong will only be made right if there is an equal consequence. When we accept in our hearts that the only consequence WE need to be working on, truly, is our own (Phillipians 2:12), we learn that it is not our place to decide if, when, and how a person is to change, and ALSO that once the change comes, we must accept it and not try to understand it. We learn, through discernment, if the change is genuine, and if it is, rather than fearing that it is not, we praise God continually for working that change.

DISCLAIMER: I am not trying to give a play-by-play of "how it's done" or anything. What I did worked for me and I would never encourage another woman to go the route that I did - if GOD Himself wasn't leading her in that direction. Take a lesson, maybe two, from all that was written, but try not to discount everything just because one or more pieces of it do not apply to you. I dont mean to sound defensive, but I have been attacked more than once for speaking about these topics, and I would rather discuss than argue.

 

[razzelflabben]

What an awesome question! This here is the question few ever ask, for two reasons, I believe:
1) Rarely do victimized spouses in these situations honestly seek help for their struggle. When they do, they more often turn to secular authorities rather than attempting to deal with the problem on a spiritual level.
2) The church has a few misguided concepts of the spirit of abuse, and these lead to a lack of educated advice coming from leaders who do encounter domestic violence situations. "Be more submissive" is a commonly used phrase by church leaders who are approached for advice in this. That is not only unhelpful, but it puts the responsibility for a change on the person, rather than on Christ.

That being said, in my situation, I was given wisdom from God that this was a spiritual battle, and the only way to "win" it was to allow God to work.
These Scriptures helped me, and I will share how:
Ephesians 1:21 "Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come"
This is a lesser known counterpart to the verse in Romans telling us that our battle is not against flesh and blood. It taught me that not only is "my" battle against the unseen forces of this world, but it is not even my battle to fight! I could not win this alone, in fact I could not win this at ALL. Knowing this, I realized that every attempt on my behalf to "find a way" to make things right was actually hindering God's ability to act on my behalf. Also see Proverbs 3:5-6

yah!!!! I've been "preaching" for a long time, that we let God have what is His, instead of trying to do His job for Him.

Jeremiah 29:11-14
God knows His divine plan for us, and His plan is not for us to come to any kind of harm, physically, emotionally, or spiritually. This means that when we place ourselves in harm's way, we are acting outside of His will. His plans are for hope and a future, and if we listen to hear His voice, He will show us the way to go. I took verse 14 personally, as God speaking to me that I did, and no woman does, not deserve to be held captive, either by an abusive partner, or by a church mandate that leaving means divorce, which means leaving itself is wrong.

oh I totally agree here as well, but I also know how easily that it can be twisted by those who do not comprehend the difference between your days being numbered and God's plan to prosper us. Quick side note, I do not have an abusive husband, but I did grow up in an abusive home, one of the things God taught me, was that I could thrive, no matter where I was, if He was given freedom to work. That is NOT an advocate for staying in a dangerous situation (I feel it necessary to keep emphasizing this since so many people twist everything to mean that) but rather it is to say, that there is no excuse to not grow and thrive in the Love and power of the HS.

Phillipians 4:6-7
The request of any abused woman is to be kept safe from harm, and the request of a Christian abused woman should be for restoration of her marriage, which IS possible, by the grace of God's miraculous intervention. It is very important to remember that God can do anything, and that His ultimate desire for us is that we follow His will, forsaking all else. We can't get to the "peace that surpasses all understanding" if we don't fully surrender our fear, our desire, and our pain to Christ.

amen!!!!

Mark 10:1-12
These are Jesus' commands regarding marriage, and they are so much simpler than today's standards of how marriage is handled. Verse 5 implies that the ONLY reason Moses gave a circumstance that allowed for divorce was the "hardness of their hearts." This is a hard Truth to digest for those who are dealing with a spouse who does not treat them properly, but it is still a Truth nonetheless. Verses 6 through 8 contain a truth that I believe should be taught to children, should be firmly instilled long before a person is old enough to entertain thoughts of marrying. There would be fewer divorces if the understanding before getting married was that it is an irreversible decision. Sadly, there would probably be fewer marriages also.

It is also a call to soften our hearts, to let Him work in us, isn't it? Right now, I am talking and sharing with a woman whose husband seems determined to divorce her, in fact I know several people who were divorced by their spouse even though they didn't want that divorce and would have done anything to save the marriage, but the hardness of the other person, shouldn't be our hardness too. We may not have any real say in the matter, in certain situations, but that doesn't give us an excuse to become hardened and bitter.

I have been learning so much about God's plan for marriage, I hope soon to be able to really teach some of the truths I'm learning and what you say here is right on the money. Thanks

Ephesians 5:22-30
These are probably some of the most controversial verses in the Bible. Wives are given the instruction to submit to their husbands, and the first response out of many women's mouths is "Why should I submit to a man who will abuse my submission?" But first, before we go there, let's look at Verse 25, which instructs the husband to love his wife as Christ loved the church. Christ was gentle and kind, and while He did get angry (as shown when He turned over tables in the Temple), He never used that anger as an excuse to harm others. This is how husbands are called to treat their wives. So we have two separate instructions, given to two separate groups of people. There is also no instruction given for "when the other person doesn't do their part." It doesn't say, "Wives, submit to your husbands, but only if they act right." It doesn't say, "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church, but only if they do their part." This is important. Christ leaves us with no excuse. This means we have to do our part, even WHEN our spouse doesn't do theirs.

amen...how refreshing to hear someone speak the truth of these passages rather than the twisted version so many like.

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
Another pair of controversial verses, these instruct that if a woman (and I do believe this applies to men also) ends up in a situation where a marriage is irreconcilable, she should remain unmarried. This spoke to me when I left my husband, and told me that at that point, there could be only two possible outcomes: either I would reconcile with him, or I would raise my children alone. I didnt like that knowledge, but there it was.
NOTE: Please, as you read, try not to have the impression that I am judging anyone by my words. I am only speaking my own personal understanding of what Scripture has spoken to me, and do not condemn those who believe differently from me.

this one, I'm still unclear on...where I think you are right, there is also a passage that says that if a husband divorces his wife and she remarries, he forces his wife into adultery...the burden of that being put on the divorcing party, not the divorced party...any thoughts on how to reconcile that? Currently my leaning is to not remarry but if you do, which leaves a hole of understanding somewhere along the way...I'll have to take time to look up the passage after the holiday, if you don't know it already...thanks for your thoughts...

1 Peter 3:8-9
In the beginning of 1 Peter, similiar instruction is given as in Ephesians 5, but these two verses command us to keep from taking vengeance on those who have hurt us, and I believe are spoken specifically to husbands and wives who, in a worldly sense, have "every right" to do so. We have to remember that there is only one true judge in our lives, and He would not give us place to sit in the judgment seat ourselves, as no one person has enough knowledge OR wisdom to do that. So our place, when we have been wronged and are hurting, is at the cross, crying out to God to take our anger from us, to remind that we all will receive due reward for our actions here on earth, and those who have hurt us will receive theirs.

your Love and grace and wisdom astound me...thanks so much for sharing.

Finally, Mattew 18:21-22
One of the most difficult things for a relationship dealing with and healing from domestic violence is forgiveness. When we have been wronged, and unless we forgive totally, we carry a piece of that wrong on our heart, and our flesh cries out for justice to be meted. Our flesh believes that the wrong will only be made right if there is an equal consequence. When we accept in our hearts that the only consequence WE need to be working on, truly, is our own (Phillipians 2:12), we learn that it is not our place to decide if, when, and how a person is to change, and ALSO that once the change comes, we must accept it and not try to understand it. We learn, through discernment, if the change is genuine, and if it is, rather than fearing that it is not, we praise God continually for working that change.

would you give me permission to share your thoughts here and to use them?

DISCLAIMER: I am not trying to give a play-by-play of "how it's done" or anything. What I did worked for me and I would never encourage another woman to go the route that I did - if GOD Himself wasn't leading her in that direction. Take a lesson, maybe two, from all that was written, but try not to discount everything just because one or more pieces of it do not apply to you. I dont mean to sound defensive, but I have been attacked more than once for speaking about these topics, and I would rather discuss than argue.

wow...I guess I understand, we have been run out of churches for preaching scripture, but to be attacked for what you have said here, is way out of line, it's straight out of scripture and if we can't trust God with the answers we need, who can we trust? Thank you more than you can know for sharing this with me...I truly appreciate it and value every word and morsel of wisdom.

 

[motherprayer]

That is awesome! I was hoping you'd appreciate my words and experience, as I know from some of your other threads

Ack I got cut off before I was finished. The touchscreen on this phone is plotting against me lol be right back

 

[motherprayer]

It's so great to speak to someone about this who is receptive! Bless you mightily!

May I ask, before I give permission, how you are planning on using this? I guess I'd just like a general idea before I say yes, lol I'm just curious

 

[razzelflabben]

It's so great to speak to someone about this who is receptive! Bless you mightily!

May I ask, before I give permission, how you are planning on using this? I guess I'd just like a general idea before I say yes, lol I'm just curious

God is calling us into a ministry of studying, teaching and living biblical love, as part of that ministry, we are learning how to apply biblical love to situations that would come up in counseling, in fact, we are one class away from our Masters in pastoral counseling and then we start our doctorate studies in the same. There is a lot here that applies to Love, for example, Love doesn't wait for the other person to respond. As you have learned that truth is important to our own healing.

We aren't sure where all God is leading us, but this is what we currently know of that leading. What we are interested in, (ministry wise) is how what you learned, shows Biblical Love in action, so to speak. Lots of people don't seem to get what we are called to, cause it's not traditional, so hopefully you understand it.

 

[motherprayer]

this one, I'm still unclear on...where I think you are right, there is also a passage that says that if a husband divorces his wife and she remarries, he forces his wife into adultery...the burden of that being put on the divorcing party, not the divorced party...any thoughts on how to reconcile that? Currently my leaning is to not remarry but if you do, which leaves a hole of understanding somewhere along the way...I'll have to take time to look up the passage after the holiday, if you don't know it already...

Here it is: Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Verses like these have to be looked at in a perspective that is hard for many of us to achieve. It is worthy to note that while many commands tell us how we should act, the way to treat others, and the consequences ON OTHERS of how WE behave, there are few if any verses telling us that being on the "wrong" end of these commands gives us an excuse to behave wrongly.

One great example of what I am trying to portray is in Galatians:
6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
~and~
6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

Now we know the Bible doesn't contradict itself, so we need to work towards an understanding of how to reconcile one with the other. First, I am commanded here to bear my brethren's burdens, and then I am told that we all bear our own. How does that work? So let's dig deeper. I am called to bear another's burden because I must make sure that my behavior does not cause another to stumble. But then this second part, bearing my OWN burden, is called into play because God wants us to know that we are only responsible for our OWN behavior, and no one else's.
For example: Mark and Lisa have been married a year. Lisa has an affair, and then Mark decides he wants a divorce. Lisa says the affair happened because he constantly tore her down and she needed someone to make her feel beautiful again.
Is it Mark's fault for making Lisa feel unworthy, or Lisa's fault for responding with adultery?
Well, we have to look at this deeply. Mark is responsible for making Lisa feel unloved, and Lisa is responsible for responding by doing something sinful. So in the end, Lisa bears full responsibility for her sin, because no matter what her "cause" she still made a choice to act in that way. Mark bears the responsibility for saying things that created that feeling in her, but not for her sin itself.

To oversimplify it, I am responsible for how I behave, AND I am responsible for how I respond to how other people behave.

This is where I believe many have misunderstood the Bible, because they see a verse like Matthew 5:32 and say, "Well, he divorced me so that means that if I AM an adulterer, it is his fault." No, that means he divorced you, and if you remarry you will be in adultery, and then the responsibility for the divorce will lie with him, and the responsibility for the adultery will lie with you.
Technically speaking. This is hardcore, and maybe a bit harsh, and I apologize deeply if this offends anyone. That really is not my intention.

 

[motherprayer]

God is calling us into a ministry of studying, teaching and living biblical love, as part of that ministry, we are learning how to apply biblical love to situations that would come up in counseling, in fact, we are one class away from our Masters in pastoral counseling and then we start our doctorate studies in the same. There is a lot here that applies to Love, for example, Love doesn't wait for the other person to respond. As you have learned that truth is important to our own healing.

We aren't sure where all God is leading us, but this is what we currently know of that leading. What we are interested in, (ministry wise) is how what you learned, shows Biblical Love in action, so to speak. Lots of people don't seem to get what we are called to, cause it's not traditional, so hopefully you understand it.

Id love for you to share!

 

[razzelflabben]

Here it is: Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Verses like these have to be looked at in a perspective that is hard for many of us to achieve. It is worthy to note that while many commands tell us how we should act, the way to treat others, and the consequences ON OTHERS of how WE behave, there are few if any verses telling us that being on the "wrong" end of these commands gives us an excuse to behave wrongly.

a huge amen to that.

One great example of what I am trying to portray is in Galatians:
6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
~and~
6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

Now we know the Bible doesn't contradict itself, so we need to work towards an understanding of how to reconcile one with the other. First, I am commanded here to bear my brethren's burdens, and then I am told that we all bear our own. How does that work? So let's dig deeper. I am called to bear another's burden because I must make sure that my behavior does not cause another to stumble. But then this second part, bearing my OWN burden, is called into play because God wants us to know that we are only responsible for our OWN behavior, and no one else's.
For example: Mark and Lisa have been married a year. Lisa has an affair, and then Mark decides he wants a divorce. Lisa says the affair happened because he constantly tore her down and she needed someone to make her feel beautiful again.
Is it Mark's fault for making Lisa feel unworthy, or Lisa's fault for responding with adultery?
Well, we have to look at this deeply. Mark is responsible for making Lisa feel unloved, and Lisa is responsible for responding by doing something sinful. So in the end, Lisa bears full responsibility for her sin, because no matter what her "cause" she still made a choice to act in that way. Mark bears the responsibility for saying things that created that feeling in her, but not for her sin itself.

To oversimplify it, I am responsible for how I behave, AND I am responsible for how I respond to how other people behave.

which is exactly why I'm still pondering and praying about this passage, cause we are responsible for our own sin, which makes it seem odd that we would find in scripture "causeth her to commit adultery"...how can I cause another to sin, if we are responsible for our own sin? My father is one who thinks that his wifes salvation is through him...bunk...but this also gives you a hint as to why I'm not clear yet on this passage. I don't believe for a second that the husband is responsible for the wifes salvation, but there seems to be a responsibility there to some degree...maybe the answer lies in the culture...just not sure at this point.

This is where I believe many have misunderstood the Bible, because they see a verse like Matthew 5:32 and say, "Well, he divorced me so that means that if I AM an adulterer, it is his fault."

that wasn't my intent...lol....but your right, many would take it there.

No, that means he divorced you, and if you remarry you will be in adultery, and then the responsibility for the divorce will lie with him, and the responsibility for the adultery will lie with you.
Technically speaking. This is hardcore, and maybe a bit harsh, and I apologize deeply if this offends anyone. That really is not my intention.

I personally am not offended...I really need to study this one more...right now, I keep going back to the idea of the culture...in biblical days the wife would have little chance without a husband, I wonder if this culture affects this passage? I think we mostly agree, I'm just not able to totally reconcile the two passages at this point...

 

[razzelflabben]

Id love for you to share!

thanks

 

[motherprayer]

I keep going back to the idea of the culture...in biblical days the wife would have little chance without a husband, I wonder if this culture affects this passage? I think we mostly agree, I'm just not able to totally reconcile the two passages at this point...

I can understand that. Our culture is so much different from Biblical days... But, and I'm just throwing this out there, a thought... What if one of the bigger reasons we have so many familial problems in today's culture stems from the fact that we have gotten so far away from the way things were then? I mean, and this is delving further into that controversial realm, back then, before a person even considered marrying, there was the thought, this is forever. That did place a higher importance on behaving properly, and specifically behaving according to one's role.
Now I'm not suggesting we go back into the world before women had equal rights as far as government goes, but that again was differing from the way the Bible desires for us to be, it just, well, differs differently. God's Word says we have power over our head like angels, and that just as the woman surrenders power over herself to her husband, so also does her husband surrender power over himself to her. Ah, sorry, I'm digressing. Id love to hear from you further on this!

 

[razzelflabben]

I can understand that. Our culture is so much different from Biblical days... But, and I'm just throwing this out there, a thought... What if one of the bigger reasons we have so many familial problems in today's culture stems from the fact that we have gotten so far away from the way things were then? I mean, and this is delving further into that controversial realm, back then, before a person even considered marrying, there was the thought, this is forever. That did place a higher importance on behaving properly, and specifically behaving according to one's role.
Now I'm not suggesting we go back into the world before women had equal rights as far as government goes, but that again was differing from the way the Bible desires for us to be, it just, well, differs differently. God's Word says we have power over our head like angels, and that just as the woman surrenders power over herself to her husband, so also does her husband surrender power over himself to her. Ah, sorry, I'm digressing. Id love to hear from you further on this!

lol...you are so much fun to talk to, not pulling any punches, my kind of sister in Christ...you go girl!

I think there are two sides to the issue of returning to the culture of the day, (broad use of the words, not meaning everything) anyway...where the covenant idea is an absolute that we need to return to, Christ taught that women had value beyond just property, which seems to me to be something we wouldn't want to return to. I guess what that boils down to, is instead of returning to any culture, we should try to conform our culture to the teachings of Christ.

Right now, I'm studying how Christ loved the Church, as in husbands love your wifes as Christ Loved the Church (and gave Himself up for her). The study begins in Ephesians 5, and there are so many things there that we fail to ever teach our kids when they are looking into a marriage partner. For example, Love is a choice, a choice to covenant with the other person to remain no matter if Love is returned or not. (believe it or not, that is there) as in the idea of a mutual goal. How many marriages would be saved if we established and understood the mutual goal of our marriage right off the bat. In fact, when my husband and I were at the breaking point in our marriage, we stumbled upon the need for this mutual goal, we just didn't realize it was scriptural. Unity is also taught here, a unity that makes the two one in every aspect of our lives, our thoughts, goals, flesh, mind, spirits, etc. A unity in which the two are broken before the union is able to be broken...wow, what if we lived in our marriages with that kind of covenant, a covenant that cannot be broken before the very fibers of our being are broken...etc. the point I guess I am going the long way to make, is that if we stop worrying about why this marriage or that marriage is broken, and put some effort into teaching our children Gods' way for marriage, we would avoid a lot of the messy stuff we see every day. (not suggesting we don't help those in crisis, only suggesting that prevention goes a long way)

 

[Cjwinnit]

God's Word says we have power over our head like angels, and that just as the woman surrenders power over herself to her husband, so also does her husband surrender power over himself to her. Ah, sorry, I'm digressing. Id love to hear from you further on this!

Agreed. There's so much to be said about this issue. To summarize, I generally agree with you but would probably go much further.