• With the events that occured on July 13th, 2024, a reminder that posts wishing that the attempt was successful will not be tolerated. Regardless of political affiliation, at no point is any type of post wishing death on someone is allowed and will be actioned appropriately by CF Staff.

  • Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

DraculKain

Orthodox Christian
Jun 21, 2019
37
42
Indiana
✟173,642.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I wouldn't say "many" Fundamentalists, but some for sure. Mainly the KJV-onlyists (and really only the KJV 1611 people at that) are completely closed off to anything newer, but their numbers are pretty small. Most fundamentalists are pretty open to various translations. However, they are very cautious towards certain politically correct ones like the TNIV or something that does not have strong textual criticism.

Come to the Midwest and take a look at the many church signs with a bold “1611” symbol.

We meet people where they are. Her mother wants the KJV, she should get the KJV. It just so happens that it’s also a highly approved English translation by Orthodoxy, so a win!
 
Upvote 0

WanderedHome

Active Member
Jul 26, 2019
253
255
Southern US
✟44,652.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
WanderedHome - how would you suggest a Protestant "get ready" for Theotokos?
LOL

LOL! Ummm, I don't think it's possible. If anyone knows the answer, I would love to hear it. There's the theological aspect which is fairly easy to grasp, but then there's the liturgical language that has to be understood with the heart, I think. The head usually gets in the way.

I have read ProtoEvangellium of James - can't swallow the Magi being at the manger.

Huh?? That's in Matthew.
 
Upvote 0

WanderedHome

Active Member
Jul 26, 2019
253
255
Southern US
✟44,652.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Come to the Midwest and take a look at the many church signs with a bold “1611” symbol.

We meet people where they are. Her mother wants the KJV, she should get the KJV. It just so happens that it’s also a highly approved English translation by Orthodoxy, so a win!

I am from the Midwest too... my whole state is pretty much dominated by Catholics and Lutherans. I know there are some KJV'ers scattered around here and there, but I just mean in comparison to Christianity as a whole. ... But yeah, sure, if she wants a KJV get a KJV. I don't have a problem with that.
 
Upvote 0

Tra Phull

Ecumenical Loose Canon
Oct 24, 2019
1,248
684
Waco
✟53,394.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
And, yea, thou shalt get a KJV, and thou shalt read closely therein, be ye Coptic, Protestant, Orthodox or Catholic. And the Holy Ghost shall guide thee in all understanding, lest thy feet stumble or slip.
 
Upvote 0

Tra Phull

Ecumenical Loose Canon
Oct 24, 2019
1,248
684
Waco
✟53,394.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
And, yea, thou shalt read other versions of the Bible as well, and thou shalt go on message boards and discuss versions and interpretations til thou art blue in the face! World without end, Amen.
 
Upvote 0

WanderedHome

Active Member
Jul 26, 2019
253
255
Southern US
✟44,652.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Matthew 2:11-16

The Magi (Wise Men) came to Jesus IN THE HOUSE.

The Bible never says there were THREE wise men, only that wise men - plural - brought THREE kinds of gifts.

Okay, I looked at it. Well, for one thing, you don't have to believe the Protoevangelium to be Orthodox. It's not canonical. Basically, the Church Fathers have taken anything useful out of it and "discarded" the rest.
Secondly, I don't know- does it really matter if they were at the cave or the house? The point is, the wise men from the East came to worship the newborn Christ.
As far as the Orthodox iconography- it does show wise men, but it doesn't necessarily mean they were present at the birth, but just that they are a part of the story... and the fact there were three is likely not reality. They probably had a whole entourage of servants and camels. But there were three types of gifts, so that is all that was needed.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

WanderedHome

Active Member
Jul 26, 2019
253
255
Southern US
✟44,652.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
And, yea, thou shalt read other versions of the Bible as well, and thou shalt go on message boards and discuss versions and interpretations til thou art blue in the face! World without end, Amen.

iu.jpg
 
Upvote 0

Tra Phull

Ecumenical Loose Canon
Oct 24, 2019
1,248
684
Waco
✟53,394.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
True, the Protoevangellium is not canonical. The Bible mentions no "cave" anyhow, and maybe the Star of Bethlehem wasn't a star at all. Maybe extraterrestials guided the Magi. They came from a non-Israelite land, were told by Sanhedrin members that Bethlem was where Messiah would be born, from a prophecy by Micah.
Dreams were used to tell them not to go back to Herod, and used to tell Joseph to take the child to Egypt, and "out of Egypt I called my son" - I don't know where that is - Hosea maybe.

But the whole story is miraculous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WanderedHome
Upvote 0

WanderedHome

Active Member
Jul 26, 2019
253
255
Southern US
✟44,652.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
True, the Protoevangellium is not canonical. The Bible mentions no "cave" anyhow, and maybe the Star of Bethlehem wasn't a star at all. Maybe extraterrestials guided the Magi. They came from a non-Israelite land, were told by Sanhedrin members that Bethlem was where Messiah would be born, from a prophecy by Micah.
Dreams were used to tell them not to go back to Herod, and used to tell Joseph to take the child to Egypt, and "out of Egypt I called my son" - I don't know where that is - Hosea maybe.

But the whole story is miraculous.

Yep. But I wouldn't go so far as ET's. Weren't they astronomers? So a star is likely what it was... I think I've heard ideas that maybe it was an angel that appeared as a really big star.. which to today's mind might be the same as an "ET".
 
Upvote 0

Tra Phull

Ecumenical Loose Canon
Oct 24, 2019
1,248
684
Waco
✟53,394.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I don't believe in WE 3 KINGS and an exploding cigar, I believe the Star of Bethlehem was a very special star.
My son is Greek Orthodox, I wish I could offer a systematic Protestant THEOTOKOS theology, but I doubt I ever will.
 
Upvote 0

WanderedHome

Active Member
Jul 26, 2019
253
255
Southern US
✟44,652.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don't believe in WE 3 KINGS and an exploding cigar, I believe the Star of Bethlehem was a very special star.
My son is Greek Orthodox, I wish I could offer a systematic Protestant THEOTOKOS theology, but I doubt I ever will.

Yep, definitely special. It probably hasn't been seen by anyone since. I don't think it is possible to do a systematic theology of the Theotokos since Protestants are limited to the canon of Scripture for their info. Are you Protestant? What denomination? I am in the Orthodox Church in America, which is more Russian style.
 
Upvote 0

Tra Phull

Ecumenical Loose Canon
Oct 24, 2019
1,248
684
Waco
✟53,394.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Angels, OK.
ET' s, no. That was just something from a Neil Young song.

Mary is THEOTOKOS, but not a Co-Redemptrix, Co-Mediator, no...

So there will always be differences in how Mary is looked at by Prots and Orthodox

"No one got into the Guacamole dip until Tra Phull and WanderedHome got to the party"
Well, most people would conclude that after we got there, people got into the Guacamole dip.

But anyway, the point of rejoicing is that Bipolargirl' s mom WANTS A BIBLE! THAT'S GOOD NEWS! YAY, GOD !!!

Go thou in this might of yours, and deliver all Israel from the hand of Midian!
 
Upvote 0

Tra Phull

Ecumenical Loose Canon
Oct 24, 2019
1,248
684
Waco
✟53,394.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I am Protestant, raised Methodist, brief periods in Baptist and Episcopal churches.

The United Methodist church I have been to of late still has no real services cuz of corona.

My son is Greek Orthodox, I have been to his chrismation and then his wedding in Atlanta, and I don't know where to place him in CF' s division of EO and OO.

His wife is Lebanese, in med school now, he is a Registered Nurse in an ICU in El Paso, eventually to become a Nurse Practitioner.

I am Chalcedonian as far as I understand things, have had OO explain things to where I can accept that view OK I guess.
 
Upvote 0