FredVB
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Arius said:there are many things that has been revealed to me that you may never have heard before, not in our lifetime anyways.
Maybe so, and it could be all of us believers have some further revelation, but even if so, what you say is revealed to you is for you, and what I can see from the scriptures is for me, and that is what I need for being persuaded to believe anything, and you will need to use that for telling me anything, even with other things, if it is in the communication in this forum.
And also yes, whatever they decided on as the Sabbath, God honored it. But we were not around till Gods sixth day. Never the less, a day for us here on earth started after day four. It's right there in the Bible, and you cannot observe a Sabbath without the sun or the moon.
For instance, it's a well known Jewish tradition that Shabbat is observed from a few minutes before sunset on Friday evening until the appearance of three stars in the sky on Saturday nigh, which wouldn't make any sense without the sun, moon or the stars.
So why, after Christ having shown us so much, after having hung the law to a tree, would we make one "day" above another? When variations upon Shabbat are widespread in Judaism and, with adaptations, throughout the Abrahamic and many other religions. Besides, the average Hebrew calendar year is longer by about 6 minutes and 40 seconds than the current mean tropical year, so that every 216 years the Hebrew calendar will fall a day behind the current mean tropical year; and about every 231 years it will fall a day behind the mean Gregorian calendar, which means that in the past 2,000 years, the Jewish calendar fell back something like 8 days from our Gregorian calendar.
What I am pointing out is that our Saturday may be more far removed from Gods 7th Day, or even the ancient Jewish Sabbath that Moses celebrated then we think.
You just said there that none of us were around until the sixth day, that being the day Yahweh made man. What is that counted from? It means there were five days preceding it, from your own usage. The Bible account is calling each of those in the passages days, so by its usage, each is a day. The creation of the sun and stars is not relevant for counting days up to then, when the light and the darkness were showing there were the days anyway, in those passages.
Even when the Sabbath was set, if it was an option before and didn't correspond to a series of seven days from the beginning, it is not shown to be optionally chosen after that. There is requirement for all in community to observe Sabbath at the same day, every seven days, without variation, though there are occasions of other days of rest additionally, at some times.
The argument that the moon is needed for Sabbath is not in the Bible, and that the sun is useful for it does not determine that the days before the sun were not days, the Bible still has them called days, that settles it. And Jewish traditions are that, Jesus was not showing support for such, but what is written in the revelation from Yahweh. So Jews have passed down the tradition to be carefully observing the Sabbath with use of stars. That does not make the Sabbath dependent on the stars, but they don't error on the side of lessening the Sabbath, just as they will start a few minutes before sunset as you said.
Great importance is shown for the Sabbath in the scriptures, and Jesus didn't speak anything against it. What was accomplished for the law when Jesus was crucified, which only applies for real believers, is the deliverance from the consequences of the law for us. So we who are believers are not under any judgment with the law.
The entire subject of the calendar with any variations in it or difference from what we use is irrelevant, for the sequence of seven days continues regardless of that. And the Sabbath that Jesus recognized is relevant, that we may observe the sequence from.
"What importance should a Believer, a Disciple of Jesus Christ put on a Saturday" .. because that is exactly what we are talking about, .. not Monday or Sunday, but for us here in the Americas, it's Saturday, the end of the week.
1) it is NOT Gods 7th Day as I have shown
2) it is not the Day that the Jews celebrated, as I've shown (I welcome any correction, admonishment from anyone on this)
Well there never was an optional day for the Sabbath in the scriptures. Though you say it was shown that the Sabbath is not the seventh day, I don't see that. And certainly, I see it begins at the time of sunset Friday, and ends at the time of sunset Saturday. And saying those days is relevant only for our understanding of when it is, for without the use of the names, the days can be counted, in sequence to seven. And there would have been counting to other important days.
So why not just take Sunday, since we already have that off as a day of rest? In ancient Mesopotamia, astrologers assigned each day of the week the name of a god.
It is not an option in the Bible, it is also irrelevant to remembering the Sabbath if there is pagan or secular naming of days, the Sabbath would be remembered independently of that.
John 5:8 Jesus said to him, “Rise, take up your bed and walk.” 9 And immediately the man was made well, took up his bed, and walked. And that day was the Sabbath.
10 The Jews therefore said to him who was cured, “It is the Sabbath; it is not lawful for you to carry your bed.”
The Pharisees and the Scribes knew the Scriptures very well, they're the ones who made copies of them, and they knew that Jesus knew it also, yet Jesus never refuted that it was breaking the Sabbath law:
John 5:16 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
As you can see, it doesn't say: "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because (they thought, or they claimed) he broke the Sabbath". The fact remains that according to the law, that was considered work.
What Jesus was doing is revealing their hypocrisy, where they would keep the minor laws like rolling up their beds in public, yet ignored the hard work they did all Sabbath pulling their ox out of a ditch.
It was the claim of those Jews, the Pharisees and the scribes, that Jesus was a commandment breaker with what he was doing, and you conclude this with that. But I don't believe he was a commandment breaker, if anyone wasn't, he in his perfection wasn't. If there was really law against it, not of just their traditions, argue this with any scripture passages you find for it from the law. But those Jews did not want his challenge to their position, that it was about the law, which they held everyone to, so they wanted him killed.
And Jesus said they could do good things still on the Sabbath, as they themselves did to save an ox, and so he could heal then, and telling another to carry a mat home was not having work done that shouldn't be on a Sabbath. Sabbath does not really exclude those things. This is regardless of what Jews say, what matters is what is said in the scriptures.
So it is a fact, proven over and over again for the past 6,000 years that; we cannot keep the law.
So why would anyone even try to put us back under the yoke of it? The Scriptures makes it perfectly clear, and Jesus challenged them even with the law that said: "they were to stone one who was caught in adultery", isn't that important also? Or did Jesus OK committing adultery?
If we remember the Sabbath, and Yahweh says it is holy, we are not under the law with that, if you think otherwise this is not from scriptures. We who are believers (but not others, who don't repent) are not under any condemnation with being imperfect, but there is still perfection that we are to come to. We should still be growing, and not stay where we are.
There were two (it was never just one) that could have been stoned, to death, when caught. But this is for the most righteous there to do. No one there was righteous enough. Jesus saw the woman in that case was repentant, and wanted to have righteousness that Jesus had, though she didn't. Jesus chose to give her that opportunity, for he came that this could be for any. It certainly did not mean there was nothing wrong with adultery. And he never was saying there was nothing to value the Sabbath for.
Not commandments because commandments are for babes, like we teach our children: "No baby, don't hurt your sister, .. Susan, don't be angry and say you will kill your brother, Johnny, don't take that from your friend, now go and give it back!" etc. and so on.
Man has so distanced himself from God, this includes His chosen Children the Hebrew Nation that He had to come down, call Moses and give him the 10 most basic of commandments that even children should know by nature. The Gentiles knew them, and created laws for themselves.
So indeed it is basic, and we should have no gods but Yahweh, we should use no images for worshiping, we should not speak to or speak of Yahweh, or mention him, without respect, we should remember the Sabbath, every seventh day, Yahweh said it is holy, we should show honor to those who were parents to us, we should not kill, we should not engage in adultery, we should not steal, we should not give false witness, and we should not desire any of what are belongings of others, for ourselves. And Jesus showed all this applied to how we should think.
I understand but what happens when we give that name to dog? I know you probably say I am blaspheming.
I won't say that, but I do see how that is not with respecting our God.
I know my God and not just by name either. I can prove the existence of our Creator both scientifically and philosophically, both from observation and from the Bible using it as "supporting evidence".
My faith is built on evidence with substance, not blind faith.
That is how it is for me. I don't just have blind faith, but have basis with logic for trusting and speaking of the Creator, and with basis seeing that this is the God of the Bible, Yahweh.
I have found this:
Whatever has been or will be found, I won't go to sites off of these forums for discussing anything with others in these forums. I will deal with what you can say yourself, there can be sites saying anything, so that isn't worth it.
What happens when someone goes to the DMV and changes his name to "YHWH, .. or Yahweh, or Jehovah?"
That may be done legally, so there is probably nothing to do for stopping it. But it is not ever done with respect of God being shown.
Or, did you know that millions of people, especially those in the movie business worship Jesus/YHWH/Jeshua (whatever other name Christians use for God and Jesus Christ) as Lucifer? As does the Vatican?
I don't know. Yet I worship Yahweh and worship Jesus.
The four letters YHWH may be just Jewish gibberish
YHVH is really the vowels IAUE.
No, the letters are for the name, they are not gibberish. I know they can be shown as IAUE, there are the ancient Greek writings of the name, with the Greek letters close to that, which show the pronunciation was like what I know. The name was not with hard consonants.
I said either I will pay for their trip, or meet them at their choosing.
I'm still waiting. I put my name, phone number and address right out in the open, (I have done this for years on many other Christian sights) .. yet so far NOT ONE Taker!?
That is not a sensible approach. We have this forum where we can discuss everything, and if something becomes inappropriate for that, still needing discussion, there are personal messages through this possible. There isn't more possibility for anything being made convincing through personal visits. That shouldn't be expected, or asked for, when the forums are here for that, unless, that is, friendship is made through this and calls and visits are made with growing friendship.
So now Jesus put away even circumcision?
Gentiles never have to have the circumcision for being Jewish.
Yes my friend, .. but are we to keep specific laws and Jewish traditions to become perfect?
We don't need no Jewish traditions.
I couldn't resist, had to say it that way.
But there is perfection for us to grow to, there isn't disobedience to God's will in that.
"The name of the Lord our God" has a much deeper meaning
I understand this, even still worshiping Yahweh.
you also quoted Acts 10,
Let's examine Acts 10:
Peter’s Vision
9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth.
12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.
So what you and gadar perets are saying is that all this happening 3 times, has absolutely nothing to do with food? That they can go and eat with Gentiles but they were to tell these Gentiles about Paul's vision ...
Now imagine some poor gentiles growing up on pork, raising pigs for generations, and these Jews including Paul come in
I answered this false understanding that is shown before, with basis from scriptures, it is about àccepting gentiles without separating any as unclean. As you would be a fellow believer, I will not hold you off separately as unclean, regardless of what you might be eating. I just still say, fix your thinking and posting on this, it is about Peter, and not Paul.
So what are you saying, that now we all must become vegetarians?
If I am wrong in interpreting what you're saying, please correct me?
With what I said, you must be vegetarian for what? For salvation? I don't believe that at all.
I was just posting what is shown in scripture passages, and those things are, and there are modern studies that show that it is best for us having a plant-based way of eating, that is consistent with those things. There isn't effective argument possible contrary to this, I have been in discussions with this subject in such before.
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