Bible VS Organized Religion

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FredVB

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Arius said:
there are many things that has been revealed to me that you may never have heard before, not in our lifetime anyways.

Maybe so, and it could be all of us believers have some further revelation, but even if so, what you say is revealed to you is for you, and what I can see from the scriptures is for me, and that is what I need for being persuaded to believe anything, and you will need to use that for telling me anything, even with other things, if it is in the communication in this forum.

And also yes, whatever they decided on as the Sabbath, God honored it. But we were not around till Gods sixth day. Never the less, a day for us here on earth started after day four. It's right there in the Bible, and you cannot observe a Sabbath without the sun or the moon.
For instance, it's a well known Jewish tradition that Shabbat is observed from a few minutes before sunset on Friday evening until the appearance of three stars in the sky on Saturday nigh, which wouldn't make any sense without the sun, moon or the stars.
So why, after Christ having shown us so much, after having hung the law to a tree, would we make one "day" above another? When variations upon Shabbat are widespread in Judaism and, with adaptations, throughout the Abrahamic and many other religions. Besides, the average Hebrew calendar year is longer by about 6 minutes and 40 seconds than the current mean tropical year, so that every 216 years the Hebrew calendar will fall a day behind the current mean tropical year; and about every 231 years it will fall a day behind the mean Gregorian calendar, which means that in the past 2,000 years, the Jewish calendar fell back something like 8 days from our Gregorian calendar.
What I am pointing out is that our Saturday may be more far removed from Gods 7th Day, or even the ancient Jewish Sabbath that Moses celebrated then we think.

You just said there that none of us were around until the sixth day, that being the day Yahweh made man. What is that counted from? It means there were five days preceding it, from your own usage. The Bible account is calling each of those in the passages days, so by its usage, each is a day. The creation of the sun and stars is not relevant for counting days up to then, when the light and the darkness were showing there were the days anyway, in those passages.

Even when the Sabbath was set, if it was an option before and didn't correspond to a series of seven days from the beginning, it is not shown to be optionally chosen after that. There is requirement for all in community to observe Sabbath at the same day, every seven days, without variation, though there are occasions of other days of rest additionally, at some times.

The argument that the moon is needed for Sabbath is not in the Bible, and that the sun is useful for it does not determine that the days before the sun were not days, the Bible still has them called days, that settles it. And Jewish traditions are that, Jesus was not showing support for such, but what is written in the revelation from Yahweh. So Jews have passed down the tradition to be carefully observing the Sabbath with use of stars. That does not make the Sabbath dependent on the stars, but they don't error on the side of lessening the Sabbath, just as they will start a few minutes before sunset as you said.

Great importance is shown for the Sabbath in the scriptures, and Jesus didn't speak anything against it. What was accomplished for the law when Jesus was crucified, which only applies for real believers, is the deliverance from the consequences of the law for us. So we who are believers are not under any judgment with the law.

The entire subject of the calendar with any variations in it or difference from what we use is irrelevant, for the sequence of seven days continues regardless of that. And the Sabbath that Jesus recognized is relevant, that we may observe the sequence from.

"What importance should a Believer, a Disciple of Jesus Christ put on a Saturday" .. because that is exactly what we are talking about, .. not Monday or Sunday, but for us here in the Americas, it's Saturday, the end of the week.
1) it is NOT Gods 7th Day as I have shown
2) it is not the Day that the Jews celebrated, as I've shown (I welcome any correction, admonishment from anyone on this)

Well there never was an optional day for the Sabbath in the scriptures. Though you say it was shown that the Sabbath is not the seventh day, I don't see that. And certainly, I see it begins at the time of sunset Friday, and ends at the time of sunset Saturday. And saying those days is relevant only for our understanding of when it is, for without the use of the names, the days can be counted, in sequence to seven. And there would have been counting to other important days.

So why not just take Sunday, since we already have that off as a day of rest? In ancient Mesopotamia, astrologers assigned each day of the week the name of a god.

It is not an option in the Bible, it is also irrelevant to remembering the Sabbath if there is pagan or secular naming of days, the Sabbath would be remembered independently of that.

John 5:8 Jesus said to him, “Rise, take up your bed and walk.” 9 And immediately the man was made well, took up his bed, and walked. And that day was the Sabbath.
10 The Jews therefore said to him who was cured, “It is the Sabbath; it is not lawful for you to carry your bed.”
The Pharisees and the Scribes knew the Scriptures very well, they're the ones who made copies of them, and they knew that Jesus knew it also, yet Jesus never refuted that it was breaking the Sabbath law:
John 5:16 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
As you can see, it doesn't say: "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because (they thought, or they claimed) he broke the Sabbath". The fact remains that according to the law, that was considered work.
What Jesus was doing is revealing their hypocrisy, where they would keep the minor laws like rolling up their beds in public, yet ignored the hard work they did all Sabbath pulling their ox out of a ditch.

It was the claim of those Jews, the Pharisees and the scribes, that Jesus was a commandment breaker with what he was doing, and you conclude this with that. But I don't believe he was a commandment breaker, if anyone wasn't, he in his perfection wasn't. If there was really law against it, not of just their traditions, argue this with any scripture passages you find for it from the law. But those Jews did not want his challenge to their position, that it was about the law, which they held everyone to, so they wanted him killed.

And Jesus said they could do good things still on the Sabbath, as they themselves did to save an ox, and so he could heal then, and telling another to carry a mat home was not having work done that shouldn't be on a Sabbath. Sabbath does not really exclude those things. This is regardless of what Jews say, what matters is what is said in the scriptures.

So it is a fact, proven over and over again for the past 6,000 years that; we cannot keep the law.
So why would anyone even try to put us back under the yoke of it? The Scriptures makes it perfectly clear, and Jesus challenged them even with the law that said: "they were to stone one who was caught in adultery", isn't that important also? Or did Jesus OK committing adultery?

If we remember the Sabbath, and Yahweh says it is holy, we are not under the law with that, if you think otherwise this is not from scriptures. We who are believers (but not others, who don't repent) are not under any condemnation with being imperfect, but there is still perfection that we are to come to. We should still be growing, and not stay where we are.

There were two (it was never just one) that could have been stoned, to death, when caught. But this is for the most righteous there to do. No one there was righteous enough. Jesus saw the woman in that case was repentant, and wanted to have righteousness that Jesus had, though she didn't. Jesus chose to give her that opportunity, for he came that this could be for any. It certainly did not mean there was nothing wrong with adultery. And he never was saying there was nothing to value the Sabbath for.

Not commandments because commandments are for babes, like we teach our children: "No baby, don't hurt your sister, .. Susan, don't be angry and say you will kill your brother, Johnny, don't take that from your friend, now go and give it back!" etc. and so on.
Man has so distanced himself from God, this includes His chosen Children the Hebrew Nation that He had to come down, call Moses and give him the 10 most basic of commandments that even children should know by nature. The Gentiles knew them, and created laws for themselves.

So indeed it is basic, and we should have no gods but Yahweh, we should use no images for worshiping, we should not speak to or speak of Yahweh, or mention him, without respect, we should remember the Sabbath, every seventh day, Yahweh said it is holy, we should show honor to those who were parents to us, we should not kill, we should not engage in adultery, we should not steal, we should not give false witness, and we should not desire any of what are belongings of others, for ourselves. And Jesus showed all this applied to how we should think.

I understand but what happens when we give that name to dog? I know you probably say I am blaspheming.

I won't say that, but I do see how that is not with respecting our God.

I know my God and not just by name either. I can prove the existence of our Creator both scientifically and philosophically, both from observation and from the Bible using it as "supporting evidence".
My faith is built on evidence with substance, not blind faith.

That is how it is for me. I don't just have blind faith, but have basis with logic for trusting and speaking of the Creator, and with basis seeing that this is the God of the Bible, Yahweh.

I have found this:

Whatever has been or will be found, I won't go to sites off of these forums for discussing anything with others in these forums. I will deal with what you can say yourself, there can be sites saying anything, so that isn't worth it.

What happens when someone goes to the DMV and changes his name to "YHWH, .. or Yahweh, or Jehovah?"

That may be done legally, so there is probably nothing to do for stopping it. But it is not ever done with respect of God being shown.

Or, did you know that millions of people, especially those in the movie business worship Jesus/YHWH/Jeshua (whatever other name Christians use for God and Jesus Christ) as Lucifer? As does the Vatican?

I don't know. Yet I worship Yahweh and worship Jesus.

The four letters YHWH may be just Jewish gibberish
YHVH is really the vowels IAUE.

No, the letters are for the name, they are not gibberish. I know they can be shown as IAUE, there are the ancient Greek writings of the name, with the Greek letters close to that, which show the pronunciation was like what I know. The name was not with hard consonants.

I said either I will pay for their trip, or meet them at their choosing.
I'm still waiting. I put my name, phone number and address right out in the open, (I have done this for years on many other Christian sights) .. yet so far NOT ONE Taker!?

That is not a sensible approach. We have this forum where we can discuss everything, and if something becomes inappropriate for that, still needing discussion, there are personal messages through this possible. There isn't more possibility for anything being made convincing through personal visits. That shouldn't be expected, or asked for, when the forums are here for that, unless, that is, friendship is made through this and calls and visits are made with growing friendship.

So now Jesus put away even circumcision?

Gentiles never have to have the circumcision for being Jewish.

Yes my friend, .. but are we to keep specific laws and Jewish traditions to become perfect?

We don't need no Jewish traditions.
I couldn't resist, had to say it that way.
But there is perfection for us to grow to, there isn't disobedience to God's will in that.

"The name of the Lord our God" has a much deeper meaning

I understand this, even still worshiping Yahweh.

you also quoted Acts 10,
Let's examine Acts 10:
Peter’s Vision
9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth.
12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.
So what you and gadar perets are saying is that all this happening 3 times, has absolutely nothing to do with food? That they can go and eat with Gentiles but they were to tell these Gentiles about Paul's vision ...
Now imagine some poor gentiles growing up on pork, raising pigs for generations, and these Jews including Paul come in

I answered this false understanding that is shown before, with basis from scriptures, it is about àccepting gentiles without separating any as unclean. As you would be a fellow believer, I will not hold you off separately as unclean, regardless of what you might be eating. I just still say, fix your thinking and posting on this, it is about Peter, and not Paul.

So what are you saying, that now we all must become vegetarians?
If I am wrong in interpreting what you're saying, please correct me?

With what I said, you must be vegetarian for what? For salvation? I don't believe that at all.

I was just posting what is shown in scripture passages, and those things are, and there are modern studies that show that it is best for us having a plant-based way of eating, that is consistent with those things. There isn't effective argument possible contrary to this, I have been in discussions with this subject in such before.
 
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FredVB

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Hello Arius. I don't say others are under condemnation, when they express faith in God. We may believe differently about some things but it doesn't change that. You go to too many things, I can't address them. But though you use passages, you show your own interpretation.

There is no Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday shown in the passages, and there is no distinction of "God's day" being shown, or the "official day". There was indeed the void and formless before the creation of everything in the heavens and the earth. Each day is only called a day, with evening and morning mentioned showing they were, consistency with saying a day in the Bible is God's day would have any other days mentioned in the Bible understood as God's days. But there certainly will be problems with that.

I don't watch those televangelists, it won't change anything if I see troubling things they do.

And at this time I do not have a seventh day church I go to, and I certainly won't proselytize for others to go to one. I do say I think it is right for me to try just resting from work on the Sabbath, that Yahweh said is holy and to remember. I said before, go look, that it isn't known if the seven day sequence continued from creation, that isn't relevant, so the Sunday, Monday, ..., subject is irrelevant for that, the day Yahweh revealed for remembering as the Sabbath is relevant, and what Jesus observed as Sabbath is certainly relevant. And it isn't that Jesus was telling any others to break commandments that he wouldn't. Any work that could be done on another day then should be. But doing good things for others as healing or saving a life, not for one's job, is still fine to do. Carrying something that isn't work from being heavy is fine too, when it can't be done on another day. And with essential faith, with which any are in Christ, and coming to repentance, there isn't condemnation, even if Sabbath isn't being remembered, nor if it is and is not observed perfectly. But in faith it is for us to grow toward the perfection meant for us, that is with Yahweh's work with us.

Or .. do you think God is concerned about how we write, or pronounce His name?

I had said previously that I don't see it mattering how others pronounce the name, go see what I said. But it is to be remembered, and if it is that counts even if the pronunciation is remembered differently. I have certainty for myself how to pronounce it, I have said why and don't have to go on about it anymore.

Speaking of Christ or being known as Christian is not itself using his name in vain. "In vain" means without the respect there should be.

It matters not what version you use, with how it says it. The original statement revealed matters.

"I am Yahweh your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me."
And there is this from him.
"Understand that I am him. Before me there was no god formed, nor shall there be after me. I, even I, am Yahweh, and besides me there is no savior."
 
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Jane_Doe

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The Mormons require of the same thing about their god Mormo, as some other Christian denominations do Yahweh, YHWH, Jehovah, Sabbath, etc.
For the record: LDS believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
Articles of Faith 1
 
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Arius

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For the record: LDS believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
Articles of Faith 1

Hello @Jane-Doe .. sorry but I was talking about the Mormons (I have quite a few relatives and dear friends Mormons, so this is not personal, but about the Religion. Especially about Religions that use the Bible to try to justify their god/gods as Bible God.
Hope I didn't offend you!?
 
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Jane_Doe

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Hello @Jane-Doe .. sorry but I was talking about the Mormons (I have quite a few relatives and dear friends Mormons, so this is not personal, but about the Religion. Especially about Religions that use the Bible to try to justify their god/gods as Bible God.
Hope I didn't offend you!?
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("LDS" for short) are nicknamed "Mormons" (originally as a derogatory term). There is no 'Mormo' god. Rather, LDS/Mormons believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. That's literally the very first LDS Article of Faith Articles of Faith 1
 
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Arius

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Hello Arius. I don't say others are under condemnation, when they express faith in God. We may believe differently about some things but it doesn't change that. You go to too many things, I can't address them. But though you use passages, you show your own interpretation.

Thank you again for your response Fred, and may the Lord bless you.
Nothing I said was meant to offend, it is merely my duty as a Disciple of Christ to point out fatal errors in Religions, especially the ones using Gods Word in the Bible to try to justify their individual doctrines, I'm sure you agree with that, right?

We 'cannot' believe differently about who our Creator God is, or about His plan for us, simply because such errors have eternal consequences. Apostle Paul, Peter, John, and the rest took great risks in addressing Religions about their worship of false gods, and faced fierce punishments for it, we are to do no less.

There is no Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday shown in the passages, and there is no distinction of "God's day" being shown, or the "official day". There was indeed the void and formless before the creation of everything in the heavens and the earth. Each day is only called a day, with evening and morning mentioned showing they were, consistency with saying a day in the Bible is God's day would have any other days mentioned in the Bible understood as God's days. But there certainly will be problems with that.

I just shown you that if we were to get technical about the Day the Sabbath falls on, which some Christian Religions celebrate on Saturday, is not the actual Lords Seventh Day, or the Lords Holy Sabbath. And then I explained that God was OK with that. What He wasn't OK with is man playing around with His Laws.
This is why He got real strict with them during the Exodus, like sentencing the man who was picking up firewood on the Sabbath to be stoned to death. Or like in David's time, the incident when a man who was not a Levite touched the Arc to try to keep it from tipping over, God killed him on the spot!
This is why I bring up the Law, because of the severity in judgement against anyone breaking Gods Laws!

I don't watch those televangelists, it won't change anything if I see troubling things they do.

So when I post a YouTube video, you are not allowed, .. or don't allow yourself to watch it? I ask because I grew up in a Mennonite type of Christian Denomination where we were not allowed to watch TV, listen to Radio, go to movies or school dances, the women were to wear head coverings and so on!? Yet I have yet to find a more hypocritical church than we were!

And at this time I do not have a seventh day church I go to, and I certainly won't proselytize for others to go to one. I do say I think it is right for me to try just resting from work on the Sabbath, that Yahweh said is holy and to remember.

So you sacrifice the Saturday to God, and keep it Holy, correct?
You do any other "sacrifices", .. the Jews had a lot more than just the Sabbath!? What other practices, Commandments, Lwas do you hold on to?

I said before, go look, that it isn't known if the seven day sequence continued from creation, that isn't relevant, so the Sunday, Monday, ..., subject is irrelevant for that, the day Yahweh revealed for remembering as the Sabbath is relevant, and what Jesus observed as Sabbath is certainly relevant.

Do you actually think that the Son of God had to fulfill Moses law so he would be accepted by God? Or that the Laws, and Commandments that God gave to His rebellious children the Israelites through Moses went for Jesus also? Jesus was the last person that God would require to keep those tedious laws.
So unless you are here for the same reason Jesus was (die for all our sins), I would be careful in claiming to "keep the Sabbath Holy"!?
Well said Jesus when he prayed: "Father forgive them for they know not what they do!"

And it isn't that Jesus was telling any others to break commandments that he wouldn't. Any work that could be done on another day then should be. But doing good things for others as healing or saving a life, not for one's job, is still fine to do. Carrying something that isn't work from being heavy is fine too, when it can't be done on another day. And with essential faith, with which any are in Christ, and coming to repentance, there isn't condemnation, even if Sabbath isn't being remembered, nor if it is and is not observed perfectly. But in faith it is for us to grow toward the perfection meant for us, that is with Yahweh's work with us.


You cannot have it both ways, keep some of the Laws, a watered down version of it, and enforce it, or even require it of others, .. and the rest you lay it on Jesus going back on the cross!
You don't understand what you are doing, or why of all people the Son of God Word had to come down and keep every law, no matter how silly or meaningless they may have been!?

Yes, the man carrying his furniture on the Sabbath was breaking the Law, so were his Apostles harvesting, cleaning and eating the corn on the Sabbath. Couldn't of they go hungry for one day? Do you think that God would have been OK for Moses and the rest of the Israelites breaking the Fast by grabbing some snacks in-between? Or eating leavened bread because they ran out of unleavened ones?

Friend, .. I beg of you, .. you cannot "try" to keep the Law, especially just a few of the Laws and think you are "growing towards perfection"!? NO, .. because by this you are committing not just one, but two great sins with your erroneous belief:
One, you are breaking Gods Commandment by your haphazard practicing of it (taking it lightly), and Two, you deny Gods gift, which is Him sacrificing His own precious son on the cross for you!!!!!

Remember what Abraham said to his son Isaak? "And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering", .. and God did, which you and all those keeping some of the Laws and commandments trash. I beg you; Don't Do it!

Go ahead and worship on Saturday, God will love you for it, .. but if you call it a Sabbath, especially a Day God commanded the Jews to keep Holy, you better do just that, and forget Jesus Christ like most Jews do today. They too keep some of the Laws handed down to them by Moses just too keep their Traditions, which is why they deny Christ.

I had said previously that I don't see it mattering how others pronounce the name, go see what I said. But it is to be remembered, and if it is that counts even if the pronunciation is remembered differently. I have certainty for myself how to pronounce it, I have said why and don't have to go on about it anymore.

So what's wrong with simply staying with the name "Jesus", and "Lord our God"? It is NOT what language you use to call upon either of them, or how we pronounce it, it is how we represent them in our actions, from our heart!

Speaking of Christ or being known as Christian is not itself using his name in vain. "In vain" means without the respect there should be.

Being called by others; Christ-like, or a Goodie-two-shoes is one thing, but naming ourselves that is a whole other story.
Mark 1:6 Now John was clothed with camel’s hair and with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey. 7 And he preached, saying, “There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose.

It matters not what version you use, with how it says it. The original statement revealed matters.

"I am Yahweh your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me."
And there is this from him.
"Understand that I am him. Before me there was no god formed, nor shall there be after me. I, even I, am Yahweh, and besides me there is no savior."

Yahweh means something like: "The One Who Created all" (there are many different definitions though) In the ancient world, names communicated something about a person’s character, so a name carried much meaning with it. God in His infinite sovereignty chose to reveal Himself in the name Yahweh. We are not to idolize this word, but try to reveal what the word means to us by our deeds, and spiritual wisdom. In this case the word "God" is sufficient since it is how we live, and what we say that reveals who our God is.
Like I said, anyone could change their name to Yahweh which for the Name of God worshippers is an offence, but NOT for our Creator God.
 
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Arius

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I'm trying to understand you motivation here. Is your point that some people go off the deep end and hence you believe that ALL organized faiths bad?
Thank you Jane for asking, because my intention is not to attack Organized Religions. That would be a futile attempt and a huge waste of time. I mean it would take me decades, doing one Religion a day to address every Organized Religion, and by that time, there would be twice the number of Religions, each with their distinct version of god/gods.

My duty as a Disciple of Jesus Christ is to warn people, .. to "blow the trumpet" with as clear and distinctive sound (words) as I possibly can.

Done my homework, and it wasn't from simply sitting behind a desk reading up on history (even thou I've done and keep doing that too), but went out and in person sought out the truth about each Religion from the horses mouth, as the saying goes.

Yes, ALL Religions!
Had the opportunity to debated every major Religion, both theistic and atheistic, New Age Spirituality to ancient Beliefs, which are culminating in this event called the "Burning Man" out there in the desert, and what I am telling you here is what I have learned from them, .. 'including' the definition of Mormo. It was a Mormon who posted an interesting article on "Mormo" and Gorgo that caught my eyes on the Internet back when neither Wikipedia, or Google had ANY info on these words. All info was regarding the Religion called Mormon.

So like I said, if it wasn't for that LDS Mormons internet article, I would never have learned, or even inquired about Mormo, or what Mormon really stands for!?

What I have learned is that; all Organized Religions that are out there, have their own theos-god/gods which they support/worship, .. and this goes for ALL the Christian Religions, .. especially all the Christian Religions, because to my amazement, as shocking as this was for me having been brought up in Christianity, is the origins of the Christian Religion, which everyone seem to ignore.

"It wasn't Christ or His Apostles that started a Religion, especially one called after the mock labeling of Believers as "Christians" (which is no different than labeling them "Goodie-two-shoes) that started in Antioch. Instead, it was the pagan gods worshipping Gentile Emperor Constantine, along with his Roman Catholic Church and the Pope. that started this Religion.

But this is what happens when we are taught, or more like Indoctrinated at a very young age (which is exactly why the Christian Marines the Jesuits put globes in every school, in every major city in the whole world, where we got so used to seeing it that after 500 years, no one, and this includes scientists will question the idea, no matter how ridiculous or un-scientific it may sound.

This is why I was asking you about Mormo, to bring it to your attention that each Religion has their gods and you may be shocked just who these gods are, and where they originated from?

You read the Bible right? So you know that our Creator God in there want's us to "seek, knock and search" for Him, .. correct?
Now tell me honestly if this is what our Religions want also? Well I'll tell you what my own version of Christian required of me:
* I was NOT to question my Religion, ESPECIALLY the god of my Religion!!
* Questioning the doctrines of the Religion was also, .. not just discouraged, but 'forbidden'. Questioning the Doctrines was considered questioning God himself, "how dare you!?", .. It revealed doubt, when all the Religious know that we are required to have "unquestionable faith", .. you know, like what Abraham had when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaak as a burnt offering to God! Like they pointed me to

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

and here is how it is presented to us: "Now faith is the things hoped for, of things not seen." So no wonder people are lost in Religion, wondering from one to the other looking for God!

Are you interested in the facts of what people actually believe?

Yes, .. about the 'facts' that provide "evidence with substance", and not something we have to accept on "blind faith".

The writings of the Prophets in the O.T. and the writings of the Apostles in the N.T. have proven themselves for millennia, any other writings, especially ones explaining its own Religion have to be scrutinized; Is it divination from divining spirits that dwell in the supernatural realm, .. or is it from Gods Holy Spirit from Heaven?

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. ..

In other words, the Bible is about God; who He is, how we were created and why. Any book, or paper claiming to explain what the Bible really means, have to be carefully and prayerfully scrutinized. If their explanation can't be cross referenced with the Bible, leave it be.
 
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Jane_Doe

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Thank you Jane for asking, because my intention is not to attack Organized Religions. That would be a futile attempt and a huge waste of time. I mean it would take me decades, doing one Religion a day to address every Organized Religion, and by that time, there would be twice the number of Religions, each with their distinct version of god/gods.

My duty as a Disciple of Jesus Christ is to warn people, .. to "blow the trumpet" with as clear and distinctive sound (words) as I possibly can.

Done my homework, and it wasn't from simply sitting behind a desk reading up on history (even thou I've done and keep doing that too), but went out and in person sought out the truth about each Religion from the horses mouth, as the saying goes.

Yes, ALL Religions!
Had the opportunity to debated every major Religion, both theistic and atheistic, New Age Spirituality to ancient Beliefs, which are culminating in this event called the "Burning Man" out there in the desert, and what I am telling you here is what I have learned from them, .. 'including' the definition of Mormo. It was a Mormon who posted an interesting article on "Mormo" and Gorgo that caught my eyes on the Internet back when neither Wikipedia, or Google had ANY info on these words. All info was regarding the Religion called Mormon.

So like I said, if it wasn't for that LDS Mormons internet article, I would never have learned, or even inquired about Mormo, or what Mormon really stands for!?

What I have learned is that; all Organized Religions that are out there, have their own theos-god/gods which they support/worship, .. and this goes for ALL the Christian Religions, .. especially all the Christian Religions, because to my amazement, as shocking as this was for me having been brought up in Christianity, is the origins of the Christian Religion, which everyone seem to ignore.

"It wasn't Christ or His Apostles that started a Religion, especially one called after the mock labeling of Believers as "Christians" (which is no different than labeling them "Goodie-two-shoes) that started in Antioch. Instead, it was the pagan gods worshipping Gentile Emperor Constantine, along with his Roman Catholic Church and the Pope. that started this Religion.

But this is what happens when we are taught, or more like Indoctrinated at a very young age (which is exactly why the Christian Marines the Jesuits put globes in every school, in every major city in the whole world, where we got so used to seeing it that after 500 years, no one, and this includes scientists will question the idea, no matter how ridiculous or un-scientific it may sound.

This is why I was asking you about Mormo, to bring it to your attention that each Religion has their gods and you may be shocked just who these gods are, and where they originated from?

You read the Bible right? So you know that our Creator God in there want's us to "seek, knock and search" for Him, .. correct?
Now tell me honestly if this is what our Religions want also? Well I'll tell you what my own version of Christian required of me:
* I was NOT to question my Religion, ESPECIALLY the god of my Religion!!
* Questioning the doctrines of the Religion was also, .. not just discouraged, but 'forbidden'. Questioning the Doctrines was considered questioning God himself, "how dare you!?", .. It revealed doubt, when all the Religious know that we are required to have "unquestionable faith", .. you know, like what Abraham had when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaak as a burnt offering to God! Like they pointed me to

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

and here is how it is presented to us: "Now faith is the things hoped for, of things not seen." So no wonder people are lost in Religion, wondering from one to the other looking for God!



Yes, .. about the 'facts' that provide "evidence with substance", and not something we have to accept on "blind faith".

The writings of the Prophets in the O.T. and the writings of the Apostles in the N.T. have proven themselves for millennia, any other writings, especially ones explaining its own Religion have to be scrutinized; Is it divination from divining spirits that dwell in the supernatural realm, .. or is it from Gods Holy Spirit from Heaven?

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. ..

In other words, the Bible is about God; who He is, how we were created and why. Any book, or paper claiming to explain what the Bible really means, have to be carefully and prayerfully scrutinized. If their explanation can't be cross referenced with the Bible, leave it be.
With all due respect, from your posts, it sounds like you have an anti-organized religion soap box. That soap box seems takes greater concern than other people or truthfully understanding them. With all due respect, I find these type of conversations have little to do with truth, or are of little interest to me. I wish you well on your walk with God.
 
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ToBeLoved

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You will not find the word "theos" in the Bible either, I explained why, but as this O.P. proves that people will always stick to their Organized Religion over the truth.
But here, in hopes of waking someone up:

Theos:
1. indicating God or gods: theology. Word Origin. from Greek theos god.

And here is where I am thankful to have been kept out of school, and kicked out of my Organized Religion because I may never have caught this, and many other things that go right smack against God and His Will for us.

This word "theos" has nothing to do with the Hebrew God in the Bible, .. the God of Abraham, the God of Isaak and the God of Jacob, instead, it has everything to do with the Greek god/gods, for it is a Greek word.

The capital 'G'od is for those Greeks (and the rest of the Gentile pagan gods) who may have picked one god, one favorite god out of the many, .. 'a personal God from the gods', has nothing to do with the Hebrew God of the Bible.



It is NOT your sanity that is in question my friend, but your "eternal destiny", .. because worshipping Deities and other Greek theos/gods (Roman or Egyptian) in place of the God of Abraham, Isaak and Jacob carries with it eternal consequences, and if you read the Bible, I'm sure you see that. If not, that's why I'm here, to help you see it.

God, NOT the Greek theos-gods, or some man made plural version of Bible God, but the One and Only Possible Creator of Heaven, the Earth and everything, and every being that resides in them, .. the Infinite and Eternal conscious Spirit/Mind "I Am" bless you with wisdom that comes from His Holy Spirit.

I said "the Only Possible", .. unless you can find a way to put another being or thing next to Infinite/God?
It's a Greek word because most of the New Testament was originally written in Greek.

If your seeking to try to compare the Hebrew Old Testament with the Greek New Testament, you have two different covenants here and before Christ and after Christ.

This is futile.
 
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dlamberth

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4,200 Religions in the world, what does "I Am", or "God" mean to you @dlamberth ?
It's what we find when we take away all of our beliefs, mental concepts, dogma, and everything else that we use to define what ever image of God we hang on to. The "I Am" is a soul to soul exchange. It's not a head to soul exchange that we go into when attempts are made to define ones image of God. The only thing that's good for is to define the form of one's Religion. It does nothing for God.
 
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Berl

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We go through the day saying I AM this, that, etc.. but miss the implication of why we are using that reference to ourselves, it's a revealing of who we are yet it goes unnoticed by the intellect looking and getting it perceptions from observation through judging by appearances instead of grasping the Kingdom of God is in you, making outward worship of a Deity idol worship in denial that you are the temple of the living God yet he is sound asleep waiting for you to come bolding to the throne of your divine inheritance buried in you a Son still looking outside the kingdom where fellow prodigals beg for spiritual husk from dead letters 2 Corinthians 3:6 , Galatians 4:1, religion loves to steal your inheritance and rule your kingdom for you.
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LaSorcia

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