Bible Typo??

[timewerx]

I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


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[Chinchilla]

I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


.

God can use Satan to do his will , like he used him to make Christ crucified by letting him enter Judas Iscariot .

 

[Petros2015]

Yes I've noticed that before, some translations for who inspired David to number by census have the idea as coming from God and other as having come from Satan. God immediately sends a plague afterwards. I guess census'ing was a no-no.

If I were you, I would Ask-A-Jew about the interpretation of the verses. They probably have the most commentary on them and know what the translation is supposed to imply.

 

[Tom 1]

I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


.

There are some inconsistencies like that between the 2 Samuels, kings and chronicles, things like numbers of soldiers killed in battles and things like that. This one may be a double meaning, as @Chinchilla pointed out above, with God allowing Satan to provoke David, or it might reflect a change made by a scribe to put the blame on Satan rather than God, which might in turn reflect a change in thinking about the incident over time.

 

[drjean]

thinking...

 

[drjean]

1 Chronicles 21:1 21 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

https://apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=6&article=784

I'm not seeing an issue. Explain again?

 

[Greg Merrill]

There are some inconsistencies like that between the 2 Samuels, kings and chronicles, things like numbers of soldiers killed in battles and things like that. This one may be a double meaning, as @Chinchilla pointed out above, with God allowing Satan to provoke David, or it might reflect a change made by a scribe to put the blame on Satan rather than God, which might in turn reflect a change in thinking about the incident over time.

There are a number of these, and these may look like inconsistencies to people on the surface, but there is a reason for them. They are not typos. Some translators, that did not understand the reasons for such "inconsistencies" would be tempted to try to "correct" them, and would then print something that God didn't want printed. It helps when one keeps in mind that Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles were written from different prospectives. The first two from the kings and man's prospective, Chronicles from the priests and God prospective. What these "inconsistencies" mean to bring out is a different way of looking at the first story giving more insight into it, not contradicting it.

 

[icxn]

The anger of the Lord is a reference to the Devil, so in both instances the Devil is the one instigating David to count the people.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I sometimes find it helpful to see if the Septuagint has anything of note here to help, as there are sometimes discrepancies between the LXX and the MT (the LXX also often agreeing with other ancient biblical manuscripts such as the Dead Sea Scrolls, rather than the MT). But in this case nothing particularly helpful, the LXX of 1 Chronicles 21:1 has διάβολος.

I suspect, however, that we are seeing here is a reflection of one view of hashatan that existed among the Hebrew people, where "the accuser" is a kind of prosecuting attorney. The idea of an actively evil fallen angel who has rebelled against God does not seem to exist in the older Old Testament texts and tends to show up instead during the later 2nd Temple period. Most of the Jewish writings that propose such an idea are, and never have been, regarded as Scripture by either Jews or Christians, but it is those 2nd temple ideas that are the basis for the New Testament depiction of the devil as a fallen angel, an evil agent who acts contrary to the will of God.

EDIT: It's also important to remember that in Hebrew shayan can be used quite generically,

"And the LORD raised up an adversary against Solomon, Hadad the Edomite. He was of the royal house in Edom." (1 Kings 11:14), the word translated as "adversary" is shaytan. If the word were not translated the text could read "And the Lord raised up Satan against Solomon, Hadad the Edomite. ..."

So the simple occurrence of the word "shaytan" in the Hebrew text does not necessitate a specific individual that we know as Satan. Exegesis and interpretation is required to try and parse the meaning from the context.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[drjean]

I agree with what some of the others have posted. Remember that in the NT 'gospels' the different authors recounted the same stories at times in different ways. Though it was all through the Holy Spirit, they were allowed to insert their personal influences... Luke wrote through the eyes of a doctor, for instance and Matthew wrote mainly for the understanding by the Jews.

 

[Dave L]

I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


.

“The LORD’s anger again raged against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go count Israel and Judah.”” (2 Samuel 24:1)

“An adversary [Satan] opposed Israel, inciting David to count how many warriors Israel had.” (1 Chronicles 21:1)

God uses Satan to carry out his plans. Consider the case of Ahab.

“And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” (1 Kings 22:20–23)

 

[Dave-W]

I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm

Suggestion: Get a good Hebrew/English OT. If you get the Jewish ones they often have commentary along with the text.

Some suggestions:

https://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Study-Bible-Second/dp/0199978468

https://www.amazon.com/Tanach-Stone...d=1535394162&sr=8-3&keywords=artscroll+tanach

 

[bcbsr]

I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


.

No, not a typo, but more of a situation like Job where God allowed Satan to do stuff. In Job it's kind of like he holds Satan back, and Satan need God's permission to act. No surprise God grants him permission in the case you mentioned. Between Samuel and Chronicles in this case it's a matter of how far behind the curtain it's revealing.

Another interesting passage along that same line is 2Cor 12:7 "To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me." And so we see God using Satan for his own ends.

 

[Hank77]

2Sa 24:10 And David's heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the LORD, I have sinned greatly in that I have done: and now, I beseech thee, O LORD, take away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.

2Sa 24:12 Go and say unto David, Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee.

Here David's admits that he committed a sin in numbering the people of God. In turn God gives him a choice about the consequences for this sin.
I wonder, could God be angry with David if He had moved David to number the people?

Gill, points out what may being going on here, why satan was allowed to move David. Was it to show David something about himself and keep him from stepping outside the Lord's guidance and to teach him to put the people first, before himself.

2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

One author points to God and the other to satan.

 

[Hank77]

No, not a typo, but more of a situation like Job where God allowed Satan to do stuff. In Job it's kind of like he holds Satan back, and Satan need God's permission to act. No surprise God grants him permission in the case you mentioned. Between Samuel and Chronicles in this case it's a matter of how far behind the curtain it's revealing.

Another interesting passage along that same line is 2Cor 12:7 "To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me." And so we see God using Satan for his own ends.

Lol, you beat me to it. I didn't see your post until I posted mine. To tell you the truth I was rather nervous about posting it, I feel better after seeing yours'.

 

[HTacianas]

I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


.

It's not a typo, it's two different points of view. The census was seen as evil. One point of view of the census was that since it evil it was caused by Satan.

The ancient Essenes, a group contemporary to the Pharisees and Sadduces, held the belief that God was in control of all things, and that nothing, either good or evil, happened apart from God. They had a saying, "all things are best ascribed to God".

You're seeing somewhat of the origins of that, in that one writer ascribes the census to Satan, the other writer to God.

 

[dqhall]

I'm providing links to Biblehub of verses so you can see them in Hebrew. So don't just look at the verse, click the link so you see the Hebrew words yourself.

My concern is that I saw a verse repeated almost word-per-word in another verse.....But in the next verse, instead of mentioning "Yahweh", it mentioned "Satan".

Here are the verses:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_samuel/24-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/text/1_chronicles/21-1.htm


.

I would not want to say who asked David to do a census to find out how many people were on his side. I am sure a wise king might need to count his fighting men and estimate if he has enough infantry, chariots, archers, and so forth to confront a ruler opposing him, or if he should ask for peace and pay taxes to the king opposing him. Ancient history may have some errors and omissions due to copying errors. I like to set these type verses aside and not stare at them too long.

 

[ewq1938]

The anger of the Lord is a reference to the Devil, so in both instances the Devil is the one instigating David to count the people.

So God's anger is Satan? That doesn't sound right.

 

[ewq1938]

2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
2Sa 24:2 For the king said to Joab the captain of the host, which was with him, Go now through all the tribes of Israel, from Dan even to Beersheba, and number ye the people, that I may know the number of the people.
2Sa 24:3 And Joab said unto the king, Now the LORD thy God add unto the people, how many soever they be, an hundredfold, and that the eyes of my lord the king may see it: but why doth my lord the king delight in this thing?
2Sa 24:4 Notwithstanding the king's word prevailed against Joab, and against the captains of the host. And Joab and the captains of the host went out from the presence of the king, to number the people of Israel.
2Sa 24:5 And they passed over Jordan, and pitched in Aroer, on the right side of the city that lieth in the midst of the river of Gad, and toward Jazer:
2Sa 24:6 Then they came to Gilead, and to the land of Tahtimhodshi; and they came to Danjaan, and about to Zidon,
2Sa 24:7 And came to the strong hold of Tyre, and to all the cities of the Hivites, and of the Canaanites: and they went out to the south of Judah, even to Beersheba.
2Sa 24:8 So when they had gone through all the land, they came to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days.
2Sa 24:9 And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.
2Sa 24:10 And David's heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the LORD, I have sinned greatly in that I have done: and now, I beseech thee, O LORD, take away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.
2Sa 24:11 For when David was up in the morning, the word of the LORD came unto the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying,
2Sa 24:12 Go and say unto David, Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee.
2Sa 24:13 So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land? now advise, and see what answer I shall return to him that sent me.
2Sa 24:14 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let us fall now into the hand of the LORD; for his mercies are great: and let me not fall into the hand of man.
2Sa 24:15 So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men.
2Sa 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.
2Sa 24:17 And David spake unto the LORD when he saw the angel that smote the people, and said, Lo, I have sinned, and I have done wickedly: but these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, be against me, and against my father's house.
2Sa 24:18 And Gad came that day to David, and said unto him, Go up, rear an altar unto the LORD in the threshingfloor of Araunah the Jebusite.
2Sa 24:19 And David, according to the saying of Gad, went up as the LORD commanded.
2Sa 24:20 And Araunah looked, and saw the king and his servants coming on toward him: and Araunah went out, and bowed himself before the king on his face upon the ground.
2Sa 24:21 And Araunah said, Wherefore is my lord the king come to his servant? And David said, To buy the threshingfloor of thee, to build an altar unto the LORD, that the plague may be stayed from the people.
2Sa 24:22 And Araunah said unto David, Let my lord the king take and offer up what seemeth good unto him: behold, here be oxen for burnt sacrifice, and threshing instruments and other instruments of the oxen for wood.
2Sa 24:23 All these things did Araunah, as a king, give unto the king. And Araunah said unto the king, The LORD thy God accept thee.
2Sa 24:24 And the king said unto Araunah, Nay; but I will surely buy it of thee at a price: neither will I offer burnt offerings unto the LORD my God of that which doth cost me nothing. So David bought the threshingfloor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.
2Sa 24:25 And David built there an altar unto the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. So the LORD was intreated for the land, and the plague was stayed from Israel.

1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
1Ch 21:2 And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it.
1Ch 21:3 And Joab answered, The LORD make his people an hundred times so many more as they be: but, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? why then doth my lord require this thing? why will he be a cause of trespass to Israel?
1Ch 21:4 Nevertheless the king's word prevailed against Joab. Wherefore Joab departed, and went throughout all Israel, and came to Jerusalem.
1Ch 21:5 And Joab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and an hundred thousand men that drew sword: and Judah was four hundred threescore and ten thousand men that drew sword.
1Ch 21:6 But Levi and Benjamin counted he not among them: for the king's word was abominable to Joab.
1Ch 21:7 And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel.
1Ch 21:8 And David said unto God, I have sinned greatly, because I have done this thing: but now, I beseech thee, do away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.
1Ch 21:9 And the LORD spake unto Gad, David's seer, saying,
1Ch 21:10 Go and tell David, saying, Thus saith the LORD, I offer thee three things: choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto thee.
1Ch 21:11 So Gad came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee
1Ch 21:12 Either three years' famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; or else three days the sword of the LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel. Now therefore advise thyself what word I shall bring again to him that sent me.
1Ch 21:13 And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall now into the hand of the LORD; for very great are his mercies: but let me not fall into the hand of man.
1Ch 21:14 So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men.
1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.
1Ch 21:16 And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces.
1Ch 21:17 And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O LORD my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.
1Ch 21:18 Then the angel of the LORD commanded Gad to say to David, that David should go up, and set up an altar unto the LORD in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.
1Ch 21:19 And David went up at the saying of Gad, which he spake in the name of the LORD.
1Ch 21:20 And Ornan turned back, and saw the angel; and his four sons with him hid themselves. Now Ornan was threshing wheat.
1Ch 21:21 And as David came to Ornan, Ornan looked and saw David, and went out of the threshingfloor, and bowed himself to David with his face to the ground.
1Ch 21:22 Then David said to Ornan, Grant me the place of this threshingfloor, that I may build an altar therein unto the LORD: thou shalt grant it me for the full price: that the plague may be stayed from the people.
1Ch 21:23 And Ornan said unto David, Take it to thee, and let my lord the king do that which is good in his eyes: lo, I give thee the oxen also for burnt offerings, and the threshing instruments for wood, and the wheat for the meat offering; I give it all.
1Ch 21:24 And king David said to Ornan, Nay; but I will verily buy it for the full price: for I will not take that which is thine for the LORD, nor offer burnt offerings without cost.
1Ch 21:25 So David gave to Ornan for the place six hundred shekels of gold by weight.
1Ch 21:26 And David built there an altar unto the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings, and called upon the LORD; and he answered him from heaven by fire upon the altar of burnt offering.
1Ch 21:27 And the LORD commanded the angel; and he put up his sword again into the sheath thereof.
1Ch 21:28 At that time when David saw that the LORD had answered him in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite, then he sacrificed there.
1Ch 21:29 For the tabernacle of the LORD, which Moses made in the wilderness, and the altar of the burnt offering, were at that season in the high place at Gibeon.
1Ch 21:30 But David could not go before it to enquire of God: for he was afraid because of the sword of the angel of the LORD.


The numbers counted do not match plus in one Levi and Benjamin weren't counted but that isn't in the other account. Either this is one account with tons of errors or it's two different accounts of a census being taken.

 

[Uncle Mikey]

There are some inconsistencies like that between the 2 Samuels, kings and chronicles...

I was just studying this one the other day...

2 Chronicles 22:2
"Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri"

2 Kings 8:26
"Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel"

The consensus being that it is a transcription error.