Bible teaching on the gift of prophecy - and prophets

BobRyan

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When it comes to Bible doctrine... we can either make stuff up or read what the Bible says.

So then... "what the Bible says" is it.

1 Cor 14
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.

Which as we all know --- is a great way to affirm prophets and the gift of prophecy.

Almost as good as this --
1 Cor 14: 39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy

And then there is Christ Himself saying this

Matt 23
34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,

With such outstanding Bible texts affirming the gift of prophesy it is no wonder that millions of Christians accept it as Bible truth.



Eph 4
11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

so then: prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers

1 Cor 12
27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

1 Thess 5
19 Do not quench the Spirit; 20 do not despise prophetic utterances. 21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;

====================================

But as is so often the case - the mere quote of the text is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to it.
 
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BobRyan

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Prophets are to be tested... rather than accepting anyone that comes along with that claim.

1 John 4: 1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

1 Cor 14:
37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38 But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.


============= and of course - conditional prophecy


Jonah's prophecy?
Jonah 3: 2 “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I tell you.” 3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three-day journey in extent. 4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

Moses' prediction that they were going to the promised land and not going to just "die in the wilderness"?

Isaiah
Is 38:1 In those days Hezekiah was sick and near death. And Isaiah the prophet, the son of Amoz, went to him and said to him, “Thus says the Lord: ‘Set your house in order, for you shall die and not live.’ ”

Conditional prophecy
Jer 18
5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?” says the Lord. “Look, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.
 
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BobRyan

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So while we "could" make stuff up like
1. You can only be a valid prophet if you are wearing green or red shoes
2. True prophets only prophesy at 2pm and not before
3. No prophet will prophecy on Tuesdays

etc. making stuff up is an endless game in that regard.

But we choose the Bible "instead".
 
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Gregorikos

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Paul said that prophecy would not last forever.

But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 (NRSV)
 
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BobRyan

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Paul said that prophecy would not last forever.

But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 (NRSV)

He did say that knowledge and prophecy would cease at some point in the future when we will "know full even as we are fully known".

1 Cor 13
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

1 Cor 13 HCB
8 Love never ends.
But as for prophecies,
they will come to an end;
as for languages, they will cease;
as for knowledge, it will come to an end.
9 For we know in part,
and we prophesy in part.
10 But when the perfect comes,
the partial will come to an end
.

1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. (which is not what we have today).

But until then

Eph 4: 11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

So then at the 2nd coming - the saints are to be transformed in an instant 1 Cor 15... into the fullness of the stature of Christ ... but until then we see in a glass darkly, we rely on those evangelists, pastors, teachers and yes prophets
 
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topher694

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Paul said that prophecy would not last forever.

But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 (NRSV)
A better way of saying it would be prophecy will not be needed forever. When we are no longer bound by the flesh and the curse and we are communing continually with God in eternity, prophecy won't be needed.
 
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com7fy8

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Paul said that prophecy would not last forever.
Well, my translation says >

"Love never fails. But whether there are prophesies, they will fail;" (in 1 Corinthians 13:8)

Let me check my Strong's Concordance Greek dictionary to see what "fail" means in each of these uses >

Love will not > 2673 fail > to become or be made idle and useless

Prophesies will > 1601 fail > to drop away, become inefficient

I notice, right now, how Paul does not say the gift will fail, but the prophesies will. But I have been preprogrammed to read this to be talking about the gift. And if a person who preprogrammed me was an idol, of course I was in denial about that.

But God's word says God's love does not fail, but "prophesies" do. How? Prophesies by themselves can not make us perfect in God's love. Even so,

"he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men." (in 1 Corinthians 14:3)

So, prophesying does not fail to speak "edification and exhortation and comfort" to people. So, what does fail, then? The "prophecies". The words spoken can only go so far. But deeper than the words is the "increase" (1 Corinthians 3:6-7) > the effect of God's grace ministering through the gift of prophecy >

edification > being built up in God's love;

and exhortation > being charged up with more and more of God's love energy almighty;

and comfort > being stabilized . . . so we don't fail from loving.

But the person with the gift and the person's "prophesies" fail, by falling into the background as God is glorified and proves Himself in the people being prophesied to.

And then the edified and exhorted and comforted people also minister this grace of how God's love has effected us. All of us minister God's own grace by means of our spiritual gifts > what we do and say fails to continue, but the grace we minister helps to change us into the image of Christ, and then being like Jesus in love does not fail.

"Be hospitable to one another without grumbling. As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God." (1 Peter 4:9-10)

Therefore, the real gift of prophecy ministers the truth who is Jesus being formed in us, who is past and present and future . . . not only future events. But the "prophesies" of this gift fail to make this happen, but the grace ministered is God Himself producing His results.
 
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BobRyan

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He did say that knowledge and prophecy would cease at some point in the future when we will "know full even as we are fully known".

1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. (which is not what we have today).

But until then

Eph 4: 11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;

So then at the 2nd coming - the saints are to be transformed in an instant 1 Cor 15... into the fullness of the stature of Christ ... but until then we see in a glass darkly, we rely on those evangelists, pastors, teachers and yes prophets



Well, my translation says >
"Love never fails. But whether there are prophesies, they will fail;" (in 1 Corinthians 13:8)

prophecy, language(Tongues), and knowledge (insight for this world) pass away at the 2nd coming

1 Cor 13
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

1 Cor 13 HCB
8 Love never ends.
But as for prophecies,
they will come to an end;
as for languages, they will cease;
as for knowledge, it will come to an end.
9 For we know in part,
and we prophesy in part.
10 But when the perfect comes,
the partial will come to an end
.


1 John 3: 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. (which is not what we have today).
 
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BobRyan

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Eph 4: 11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;


some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, -- needed until the second coming
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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When it comes to Bible doctrine... we can either make stuff up or read what the Bible says.

So then... "what the Bible says" is it.

1 Cor 14
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.

Which as we all know --- is a great way to affirm prophets and the gift of prophecy.

Almost as good as this --
1 Cor 14: 39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy

And then there is Christ Himself saying this

Matt 23
34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,

With such outstanding Bible texts affirming the gift of prophesy it is no wonder that millions of Christians accept it as Bible truth.



Eph 4
11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

1 Cor 12
27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

1 Thess 5
19 Do not quench the Spirit; 20 do not despise prophetic utterances. 21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;

====================================

But as is so often the case - the mere quote of the text is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to it.
The spiritual gift of prophecy is listed among the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12:10 and Romans 12:6. The Greek word translated “prophesying” or “prophecy” in both passages properly means to “speak forth” or declare the divine will, to interpret the purposes of God, or to make known in any way the truth of God which is designed to influence people. Many people misunderstand the gift of prophecy to be the ability to predict the future. While knowing something about the future may sometimes have been an aspect of the gift of prophecy, it was primarily a gift of proclamation (“forth-telling”), not prediction (“fore-telling”).

A pastor/preacher who declares the Bible can be considered a “prophesier” in that he is speaking forth the counsel of God. With the completion of the New Testament canon, prophesying changed from declaring new revelation to declaring the completed revelation God has already given. Jude 3 speaks of “the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (emphasis added). In other words, the faith to which we hold has been settled forever, and it does not need the addition or refinement that comes from extra-biblical revelations.

Also, note the transition from prophet to teacher in 2 Peter 2:1: “There were false prophets among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you” (emphasis added). Peter indicates that the Old Testament age had prophets, whereas the church will have teachers. The spiritual gift of prophecy, in the sense of receiving new revelations from God to be proclaimed to others, ceased with the completion of the Bible. During the time that prophecy was a revelatory gift, it was to be used for the edification, exhortation, and comfort of men (1 Corinthians 14:3). The modern gift of prophecy, which is really more akin to teaching, still declares the truth of God. What has changed is that the truth of God today has already been fully revealed in His Word, while, in the early church, it had not yet been fully revealed.

Christians are to be very wary of those who claim to have a “new” message from God. It is one thing to say, “I had an interesting dream last night.” However, it is quite another matter to say, “God gave me a dream last night, and you must obey it.” No utterance of man should be considered equal to or above the written Word. We must hold to the Word that God has already given and commit ourselves to sola scriptura—Scripture alone. got ?

hope this helps !!!
 
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topher694

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The spiritual gift of prophecy is listed among the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12:10 and Romans 12:6. The Greek word translated “prophesying” or “prophecy” in both passages properly means to “speak forth” or declare the divine will, to interpret the purposes of God, or to make known in any way the truth of God which is designed to influence people. Many people misunderstand the gift of prophecy to be the ability to predict the future. While knowing something about the future may sometimes have been an aspect of the gift of prophecy, it was primarily a gift of proclamation (“forth-telling”), not prediction (“fore-telling”).

A pastor/preacher who declares the Bible can be considered a “prophesier” in that he is speaking forth the counsel of God. With the completion of the New Testament canon, prophesying changed from declaring new revelation to declaring the completed revelation God has already given. Jude 3 speaks of “the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (emphasis added). In other words, the faith to which we hold has been settled forever, and it does not need the addition or refinement that comes from extra-biblical revelations.

Also, note the transition from prophet to teacher in 2 Peter 2:1: “There were false prophets among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you” (emphasis added). Peter indicates that the Old Testament age had prophets, whereas the church will have teachers. The spiritual gift of prophecy, in the sense of receiving new revelations from God to be proclaimed to others, ceased with the completion of the Bible. During the time that prophecy was a revelatory gift, it was to be used for the edification, exhortation, and comfort of men (1 Corinthians 14:3). The modern gift of prophecy, which is really more akin to teaching, still declares the truth of God. What has changed is that the truth of God today has already been fully revealed in His Word, while, in the early church, it had not yet been fully revealed.

Christians are to be very wary of those who claim to have a “new” message from God. It is one thing to say, “I had an interesting dream last night.” However, it is quite another matter to say, “God gave me a dream last night, and you must obey it.” No utterance of man should be considered equal to or above the written Word. We must hold to the Word that God has already given and commit ourselves to sola scriptura—Scripture alone. got ?

hope this helps !!!
Yeah, I think I know what you are trying to say, but it is not entirely clear. Prophecy has not ceased. There are still Prophets today as well as Teachers. But prophecy today does not add to the Word it illuminates and emphasizes the Word and can bring forth things within the life of the recipient as long as it lines up with the Word.
 
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BobRyan

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The spiritual gift of prophecy is listed among the gifts of the Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12:10 and Romans 12:6. The Greek word translated “prophesying” or “prophecy” in both passages properly means to “speak forth” or declare the divine will, to interpret the purposes of God, or to make known in any way the truth of God which is designed to influence people.

Well more pointedly then looking to the Greeks to help us with how the Bible defines that term -- let's see what God said about it.

Numbers 12
5 Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud and stood at the doorway of the tent, and He called Aaron and Miriam. When they had both come forward, 6 He said,“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, shall make Myself known to him in a vision.
I shall speak with him in a dream.

The gift of prophecy is the gift whereby God comes directly to the person and speaks

so then for example in 1 Cor 14 notice the contrast between tongues and prophecy.

In the case of tongues - you do it in order and if no one is there to interpret you keep silent and speak in that language to yourself at home... because "you" are in charge in that case.

But in the case of prophecy - if one who is a prophet is standing and speaking and while speaking another who is seated gets an on-the-spot divine revelation then that person now has the floor and the first person is to be seated. Because this is God taking charge "in person". He cannot be tole to "wait His turn".

1 Cor 14
Tongues:
28 but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

prophecy:
29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. 30 But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; 33 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

that would be pure chaos if the only rule were "great forth-telling"
 
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topher694

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Well more pointedly then looking to the Greeks to help us with how the Bible defines that term -- let's see what God said about it.

Numbers 12
5 Then the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud and stood at the doorway of the tent, and He called Aaron and Miriam. When they had both come forward, 6 He said,“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, shall make Myself known to him in a vision.
I shall speak with him in a dream.

The gift of prophecy is the gift whereby God comes directly to the person and speaks

so then for example in 1 Cor 14 notice the contrast between tongues and prophecy.

In the case of tongues - you do it in order and if no one is there to interpret you keep silent and speak in that language to yourself at home... because "you" are in charge in that case.

But in the case of prophecy - if one who is a prophet is standing and speaking and while speaking another who is seated gets an on-the-spot divine revelation then that person now has the floor and the first person is to be seated. Because this is God taking charge "in person". He cannot be tole to "wait His turn".

1 Cor 14
Tongues:
28 but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

prophecy:
29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. 30 But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; 33 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

that would be pure chaos if the only rule were "great forth-telling"
So, do you actually move in the prophetic?
 
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So while we "could" make stuff up like
1. You can only be a valid prophet if you are wearing green or red shoes
2. True prophets only prophesy at 2pm and not before
3. No prophet will prophecy on Tuesdays

etc. making stuff up is an endless game in that regard.

But we choose the Bible "instead".

I like the Bible. Let's keep it! :amen: Funny post. :)
 
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BobRyan

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Anyone can flow in the gift of prophecy. They only need training.

Have you met anyone with that spiritual gift?

1 Cor 12
7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
...
27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts.

1 Cor 14
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.

I don't see Paul saying "Hey I can train you to be a prophet" in those verses. In fact the only way you see Spiritual Gifts given in the NT aside from sudden Pentecost-like supernatural event - is the laying on of hands by an Apostle.
 
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topher694

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Have you met anyone with that spiritual gift?

1 Cor 12
7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.
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27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts.

1 Cor 14
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.

I don't see Paul saying "Hey I can train you to be a prophet" in those verses. In fact the only way you see Spiritual Gifts given in the NT aside from sudden Pentecost-like supernatural event - is the laying on of hands by an Apostle.
One must be called & anointed by God to be in the office of a prophet, but any born again believer can flow in the gift of prophecy. Not only do I know both, I've personally trained several prophets and hundreds in the gift of prophecy. None of this negates the idea that the gift flows as the Spirit wills.
 
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