Bible Ignorance About God's Israel

[Davy]

Genesis of Dispensational Theology

I already know where Dispensationalist Theology originated, FROM JOHN NELSON DARBY IN 1830'S GREAT BRITAIN. That is the Dispensationalist theology that the pre-trib rapture and hyper-grace churches follow today, which are all Dispensationalists type church systems.

 

[BABerean2]

I already know where Dispensationalist Theology originated, FROM JOHN NELSON DARBY IN 1830'S GREAT BRITAIN. That is the Dispensationalist theology that the pre-trib rapture and hyper-grace churches follow today, which are all Dispensationalists type church systems.

Actually, it did not come from John Darby. He adopted the doctrine after Edward Irving died of TB in 1834. Darby's later contribution was to divide the New Testament scriptures into that for the Church and that for Israel. This idea split the Plymouth Brethren into two groups. Darby brought the doctrine to the U.S. about the time of the Civil War.

During the 1820's Edward Irving translated the book "Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty", written by the Jesuit Manual Lacunza, from Spanish into English and then began teaching doctrine from the book at the Albury Prophetic Conferences in the U.K. The proof is found in this video I produced for YouTube.

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[Norbert L]

Now that is an even bigger... pot of malarkey!

Without further context this response leaves an impression that the polemic I used is rather effective. Much like in the political realm people emotionally object to Candice Owens and Larry Elder and end up responding with emotion when they don't have an argument.

In the passage below James addressed his letter to "the twelve tribes", who were his "brethren" in the "faith".


Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.

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James 1:1 establishes that he understood that the Jews of the diaspora during the 2nd temple period actually consisted of the twelve tribes in the known Roman empire and Persian. It's also been understood that the Jewish diaspora in the east along with Christianity eventually led to a proto-Islam when finding out that many things in Islamic literature are a re-telling of Jewish and Christian myths.

The assertion that the apostles during the time of Christ were fully aware of the location of the exiles from the northern kingdom of Israel only leads to the present day Jewish population.

[edit]

Only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi (JEWS) remained in the southern lands.

 

[BABerean2]

The assertion that the apostles during the time of Christ were fully aware of the location of the exiles from the northern kingdom of Israel only leads to the present day Jewish population.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


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[Norbert L]

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


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Whether a person is a Jew or not, both can have rather poor reading and interpretative skills as pointed out by Paul 1 Corinthians 3:2

"I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready,.."

 

[BABerean2]

Whether a person is a Jew or not, both can have rather poor reading and interpretative skills as pointed out by Paul 1 Corinthians 3:2

"I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready,.."

A person who is truly "born-again" by the Holy Spirit of God has a teacher which gives them the needed skills. Notice the word "spirit" in Romans 2:28-29. Their teacher was promised in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in 1 John 2:27. Those who are found in this last verse do not now need milk.


1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

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Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, based on what the Bible says?

What did Peter say below?


Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


Based on Luke 3:16, and John 1:33, and Acts 11:15-16, the most important thing about the word "baptize" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The Holy Spirit is the master teacher promised to New Covenant believers in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. Unfortunately, many modern Christians see water when they read the word "baptize" in the text. Based on the above, what is the one baptism of our faith found in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in the passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage?


Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


“baptize” KJV



Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:



Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.



Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:



Joh_1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;



Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.



1Co_1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

 

[Davy]

Actually, it did not come from John Darby. He adopted the doctrine after Edward Irving died of TB in 1834. Darby's later contribution was to divide the New Testament scriptures into that for the Church and that for Israel. This idea split the Plymouth Brethren into two groups. Darby brought the doctrine to the U.S. about the time of the Civil War.

During the 1820's Edward Irving translated the book "Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty", written by the Jesuit Manual Lacunza, from Spanish into English and then began teaching doctrine from the book at the Albury Prophetic Conferences in the U.K. The proof is found in this video I produced for YouTube.

.

Yeah, I know about the Edward Irving church too, where Darby got a lot of his doctrines from. He eventually quit that church though, because of weird manifestations that were going on in it.

Darby's contribution was the Dispensationalists view that many pre-tribbers have today, like -- Jesus raptures the Church prior to the trib, and then reigns in Heaven with Jesus for the future thousand years while the nation of Israel is left on earth, i.e., a separation. Huge problem with that idiotic theory... because MANY of the children of Israel are believers on The Gospel and thus members of Christ's body! So what Irving and Darby were actually preaching, other than a FALSE pre-trib rapture, was a GENTILE ONLY GOSPEL, which does not exist in God's Word.

And that's obviously what you are following too.

 

[Davy]

Without further context this response leaves an impression that the polemic I used is rather effective. Much like in the political realm people emotionally object to Candice Owens and Larry Elder and end up responding with emotion when they don't have an argument.
James 1:1 establishes that he understood that the Jews of the diaspora during the 2nd temple period actually consisted of the twelve tribes in the known Roman empire and Persian. It's also been understood that the Jewish diaspora in the east along with Christianity eventually led to a proto-Islam when finding out that many things in Islamic literature are a re-telling of Jewish and Christian myths.

The assertion that the apostles during the time of Christ were fully aware of the location of the exiles from the northern kingdom of Israel only leads to the present day Jewish population.

[edit]

That's an obvious response by those who ONLY READ their New Testament and forgot to study their Old Testament histories and prophecies.

Until you do your homework in God's Word there's no sense in talking about this topic with you, because you don't even know what God's Word says about it.

 

[BABerean2]

So what Irving and Darby were actually preaching, other than a FALSE pre-trib rapture, was a GENTILE ONLY GOSPEL, which does not exist in God's Word.

And that's obviously what you are following too.

You must have me confused with someone else.

Paul revealed there is only one Gospel in the verse below.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Darby was a part of the Plymouth Brethren. He was never a part of Irving's church. However, Darby did attend at least one of the Albury Conferences where Irving started teaching the doctrine outside of his church.


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[Davy]

You must have me confused with someone else.

Paul revealed there is only one Gospel in the verse below.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Darby was a part of the Plymouth Brethren. He was never a part of Irving's church. However, Darby did attend at least one of the Albury Conferences where Irving started teaching the doctrine outside of his church.
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Darby and Irving both had contact with each other, which is no doubt how they both came up with the same Dispensationalist conclusions from Lacunza's false theories.

The point still is, both of them LEFT what God's Word actually teaches about the coming of Christ, and about the gathering of Israel and the Church.

 

[BABerean2]

The point still is, both of them LEFT what God's Word actually teaches about the coming of Christ, and about the gathering of Israel and the Church.

Anyone who thinks there are Two Peoples of God, the Church and Israel, are promoting the key part of Darby and Irving's doctrine.

There is only one people of God in John 10:16.

Christ is the one and only seed to whom the promise was made in Galatians 3:16.

Those promoting Dispensational Theology have to ignore these two verses and many others to make their doctrine work.

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[Norbert L]

A person who is truly "born-again" by the Holy Spirit of God has a teacher which gives them the needed skills.

To make the argument of: "I can not be wrong. I have the Holy Spirit!"
That would be setting yourself up for this response:

Christians can deceive themselves, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

That's an obvious response by those who ONLY READ their New Testament and forgot to study their Old Testament histories and prophecies.

Until you do your homework in God's Word there's no sense in talking about this topic with you, because you don't even know what God's Word says about it.

Jumping to conclusions does not help make your case. Much of the material I use is thanks to Dr. Michael Heiser. He's an OT scholar who knows around half a dozen ancient Semitic languages. Things like being aware of the two contexts in the Bible when reading verses and passages is very important.

 

[Davy]

To make the argument of: "I can not be wrong. I have the Holy Spirit!"
That would be setting yourself up for this response:

Christians can deceive themselves, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8


Jumping to conclusions does not help make your case. Much of the material I use is thanks to Dr. Michael Heiser. He's an OT scholar who knows around half a dozen ancient Semitic languages. Things like being aware of the two contexts in the Bible when reading verses and passages is very important.

That's still trusting in man, and man's credentials, and not in God per His Word. I happen to think that 19th century Christian scholar E.W. Bullinger put together the best KJV study Bible to date, called The Companion Bible, but he still succumbed to the 1830's false doctrine of Darby's pre-trib rapture theory. So scholars are not totally immune just because they may have a theological degree. I mean, look at Apostle Paul who before Christ converted him, was working for the Pharisees in hunting down Christians, and bringing them for trial in Jerusalem! Thus spiritual blindness doesn't recognize nationality nor high levels of education.

 

[BABerean2]

To make the argument of: "I can not be wrong. I have the Holy Spirit!"
That would be setting yourself up for this response:

Christians can deceive themselves, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8


Jumping to conclusions does not help make your case. Much of the material I use is thanks to Dr. Michael Heiser. He's an OT scholar who knows around half a dozen ancient Semitic languages. Things like being aware of the two contexts in the Bible when reading verses and passages is very important.

I am often wrong, but the Spirit of God is never wrong.

How do we know the difference?

All man-made systems of interpretation must ignore certain passages of scripture to work. Find the passages that must be ignored, and you will find the truth. This is what the Holy Spirit has taught me.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.


I have learned some things from Dr. Heiser, but he is not my source of truth.
I want to know what Dr. Luke thinks.

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[Davy]

I am often wrong, but the Spirit of God is never wrong.

How do we know the difference?

All man-made systems of interpretation must ignore certain passages of scripture to work. Find the passages that must be ignored, and you will find the truth. This is what the Holy Spirit has taught me.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.


I have learned some things from Dr. Heiser, but he is not my source of truth.
I want to know what Dr. Luke thinks.

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Beware brethren of false Jews that hide like wolves in sheep's clothing, claiming to know and follow God's Word, when actually they are more interested in following men with long lists of credentials. Vaudeville Credential Theater is what it ought to be called.

Isa 2:22
22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
KJV

 

[BABerean2]

Beware brethren of false Jews that hide like wolves in sheep's clothing, claiming to know and follow God's Word, when actually they are more interested in following men with long lists of credentials. Vaudeville Credential Theater is what it ought to be called.

Isa 2:22
22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
KJV

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


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[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Norbert L]

I am often wrong, but the Spirit of God is never wrong.

How do we know the difference?

All man-made systems of interpretation must ignore certain passages of scripture to work. Find the passages that must be ignored, and you will find the truth. This is what the Holy Spirit has taught me.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.


I have learned some things from Dr. Heiser, but he is not my source of truth.
I want to know what Dr. Luke thinks.

.

That's still trusting in man, and man's credentials, and not in God per His Word. I happen to think that 19th century Christian scholar E.W. Bullinger put together the best KJV study Bible to date, called The Companion Bible, but he still succumbed to the 1830's false doctrine of Darby's pre-trib rapture theory. So scholars are not totally immune just because they may have a theological degree. I mean, look at Apostle Paul who before Christ converted him, was working for the Pharisees in hunting down Christians, and bringing them for trial in Jerusalem! Thus spiritual blindness doesn't recognize nationality nor high levels of education.

To sum it up, otherwise this will go on until one of us gets tired or the mod bomb will go off again and will rightly drop on us all.

Naaman made a covenant that was acceptable to God when he expressed that it will only be towards God where his prayers are directed to. That in addition he could go into a foreign gods temple and bow down alongside the king of his nation which is also included within that agreement. Militant Sabbatarians* want the gentiles to bow down to them and believe they need to keep the old covenant according to them. That kind of covenant restricts God from being personally involved with every individual Christian on this planet.

Yes Dr. Heiser is a man who has provided enough information about the OT that it's possible to prove that Jesus was the pre-incarnate angel of the LORD in a variety of ways. My personal favorite atm is to connect the dots between Exodus 23:21 BSB, "Pay attention to him and listen to his voice; do not defy him, for he will not forgive rebellion, since My Name is in him." with John 14:11 BSB "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me—". A second temple Jew who understood Torah would 100% know who Jesus is claiming to be.

Plus to the point of the OP. The teaching of British Israelism can be dismissed as a historical attempt to play identity politics with the word of God, where even today some Sabbath attending Jew and Gentile Christians are believing that misinterpretation.

*Imo Militant Sabbatarian is a better expression of Judaizer because it tends to avoid the split blood of Sabbatarians when medieval nations didn't distinguish between church and state.

 

[BABerean2]

The teaching of British Israelism can be dismissed as a historical attempt to play identity politics with the word of God, where even today some Sabbath attending Jew and Gentile Christians are believing that misinterpretation.

Paul's warning against using 'genealogies" in our faith below proves British Israelism cannot be correct.

1Ti_1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Tit_3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

The New Covenant Gospel found below is intended for people of all nationalities and races.

There is now no difference between a naked native living in the Amazon rain forest, and a modern descendant of Jacob living in the Middle East. They both need Christ for the same reason, and in the same way. There is no Plan B of salvation based on race found in the New Testament.


New Covenant Whole Gospel:


Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him.

He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14.

Awaken Church to this truth.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by

husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart.


Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36)


Watch the YouTube video “The New Covenant” by Bob George.

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[Davy]

Paul's warning against using 'genealogies" in our faith below proves British Israelism cannot be correct.

The "synagogue of Satan" always comes up with that excuse of "British Israelism" when they think their false claim to their origins from the tribe of Judah is being attacked, because Jesus revealed those of the "synagogue of Satan" only SAY they are Jews, BUT ARE NOT, AND DO LIE, but are the "synagogue of Satan".

Their ancestors of the Canaanites crept in among Judah so long ago, they themselves don't even know those false Jews are actually the descendants of the nations of Canaan that God commanded the children of Israel to destroy, but they couldn't. (See Judges 2 & 3; Joshua 9; 1 Kings 9; Ezra 2 about the false priests who geneology of Israel could not be found; Ezra 9 about the leaders of the children of Israel who were chief in the transgression of taking wives of the Canaanites during their Babylon captivity. It's all there, in God's written Word; it's just that the "synagogue of Satan" that's in control of many seminaries today won't allow those histories from God's Word to be taught.