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Featured Bible casts doubt on dating of Artaxerxes decree

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Julian King, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. Julian King

    Julian King New Member

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    OK, so I think the 69 Weeks, which either lasted 476 actual years or 483 actual years, only form part of the 3965 years- other steps include the Genealogies of Genesis 5 and 11 which take us from Adam to Terah's birth, the 205 years of Genesis 11:32, the 430 years of Exodus 12:40-41, the 480 years of 1 Kings 6:1, the period of the Kings and the 70 year exile, which I think all follow on from one another to tell us that the period from Adam's creation to the event in Jesus' life that marked the end of Daniel's 69 Weeks, lasted 3965 years. We then add on the number of years from that event to 2018, which is a period of either around 1988 years or 2022 years, to calculate that 2018 is within a year or two of 5955 or 5987.

    Regarding your second point, I think that the 'city and sanctuary being destroyed' in Daniel 9:26 is a reference to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman Army in AD70. Since it is mentioned after the 69th Week, I think that the prophecy is telling us that it would occur after the end of the 69th Week. Now, I think an event in Jesus' life marked the end of the 69th Week, which means since Jesus was crucified by AD 34 at the latest, that there were at least 36 years (AD 70 minus AD 34) between the end of the 69th Week and the beginning of the 70th Week in Daniel 9:27, which means, since that period is greater than 7 years, the length of the 70th Week, that Daniel's 70 Weeks is not a continuous period, that it in fact measures two time periods, the 69 Weeks of Daniel 9:25 and the 1 Week, the 70th Week, of Daniel 9:27.

    I don't think the events of the 70th Week have happened yet, and, by combining it with other passages of scripture, mainly from Daniel and the Book of Revelations, I think the 70th Week represents a 7 year period that I think will end with the Battle described in Revelation 19:17-21.
     
  2. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    What scripture(s) do you believe mandate the 70 Ad destruction of Jerusalem fall within the 70 weeks period?

    I haven't found any that indicate anything of the sort.

    If I told you that the driving distance between Seattle and New York City was 70 miles, would you believe me?

    It's true!
    (All you have to do is recognize and admit that there is a 2760 mile gap between the 69th and 70th mile)

    But I'm sure you'd agree that the fact remains, it's only 70 miles between Seattle and New York City.
     
  3. ghtan

    ghtan New Member

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    I honestly don't think God expects readers to engage in such mental gymnastics to understand the passage. But, fine, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.
     
  4. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Well-Known Member

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  5. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Well-Known Member

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    Hi Julian,

    The "476 years" is based on a so-called prophetic year of 360 days. Is proponents multiply 483 years by 360 then divide by 365.24. Its a novel idea, but wrong.
     
  6. Christian Gedge

    Christian Gedge Well-Known Member

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    483 years exactly from 1st Nisan 457 BC.

    Reliable estimates indicate that Jesus baptism took place late AD 26, about November. But the actual start-point of the 70th week was the 1st Nisan AD 27. Does the New Testament identify it? Yes, it does! We are able to track the fourteen days between the beginning of the month and the start of Passover as recorded in the gospel of John. Here are the events leading up to, and signifying the switch-point between the weeks.

    The Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask John, “Who are you?” He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ” ... John answered them, “I baptize with water, but among you stands one you do not know, even he who comes after me, the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie” ... (John 1:19-20,26-27)

    This encounter took place on the last day of the 69th week, 29th Adar AD 27.

    The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’ I myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.” (John 1:29-30)

    The reference to “taking away sin” is directly from Daniel’s prophecy, (Daniel 9:24) so it becomes very appropriate if it was declared over Jesus on the first day of the 70th week.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  7. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    360 days?

    All the chronology in the bible, the dates, the days, months and years, are expressed in terms of the Biblical Lunar Calendar. This Calendar which was used in the day of Noah is the same calendar that was used by all ancient civilizations. It has 12 lunar months each of 30 days.

    The total prophesy timeline would be 2300 days (using year/day principle) and is confirmed by

    “He said to me, ‘For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed’ ” (Daniel 8:14).
     
  8. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The above ignores the fact that the ancient Hebrews made regular adjustments to the calendar.
    Otherwise, the error would have reversed the seasons in less than 40 years.

    5.25 days of error/year x 35 years = 183.75 days of error

    .
     
  9. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    It is true the calendar was adjusted ...

    The 457 B.C. date of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem must be made. The decree of Artaxerxes in 457 B.C. is the only decree that occurs during a Jubilee year. Not only is 457 B.C. a Sunday year, it is also a Jubilee year.

    The intersection of Artaxerxes’ decree with a Jubilee year is not coincidental. The whole idea behind the Jubilee year was the restoration of the land to its original owners – for free! Although Artaxerxes did not realize the significant role he was fulfilling for God’s people, his decree to restore the land to Israel for free was right on time!

    Seventy weeks equal 490 years (70 weeks x 7 days = 490 days). Seventy weeks also equal 10 Jubilee cycles (49 years x 10 cycles = 490 years). The importance of Messiah dying in the middle of the 70th week confirms something larger than the 70-week prophecy. It demonstrates how God reckons time. He is the One who established the 70 weeks. He is the One who died in the middle of the 70th week. He is the One who confirmed the synchronism of the Jubilee calendar.
     
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  10. Julian King

    Julian King New Member

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    Daniel 9.25 covers the first 69 weeks and verse 27 covers the 70th week. Since verse 26 comes between those two verses, I think it's reasonable to conclude that the events described in verse 26 occurred between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week. I think the phrase 'destruction of the city and sanctuary' from verse 26 refers to the destruction of Jerusalem by the roman army in 70 AD, which means that I think that event must have occurred after the end of the 69th week and before the 70th week began/begins.
     
  11. Julian King

    Julian King New Member

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    Having said what I said in post 30, I wish to confirm that I don't think the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 actually forms part of the first 69 weeks, or the 70th week of the prophecy: I think it falls in the gap between the first 69 weeks and the 70th week.
     
  12. Julian King

    Julian King New Member

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    For you to have arrived at 457 BC being a jubilee year, you must have made a calculation of the number of years between the 4th year of Solomon's reign and the year that Nebuchadnezzar's army destroyed Jerusalem. So, how many years do you calculate this period lasted, and what scripture have you used to arrive at this calculation- if you have used the kings reigns information from 1 and 2 kings, then just put that, plus of course your calculation.
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Dan 9:26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

    The Messiah is cut off "after" the 69th week.

    If I agree to paint your house "after" 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week or later.


    Bible scholars have discoverd 4 different Passovers in the Gospels.
    Therefore we know the earthly ministry of Christ lasted for about 3 1/2 years.
    He was cut off during the middle of a week of years.

    The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.


    Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

    Daniel 9:27
    And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    (a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

    (b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

    (c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

    .
     
  14. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    So would you also assert that the event of "Messiah being Cut off" falls in the same "Gap"?
     
  15. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Where in the scripture do you find anything to guide your opinion that I bolded and underlined?

    It seems entirely speculative.
     
  16. Dr. D Bunker

    Dr. D Bunker Member

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    bye
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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