Beyond the Fundamentals & Anti-Calvinist Prejudice

[Humble_Disciple]

This is the most egregious example of anti-Calvinist prejudice that I've ever seen, and I am offended that Leighton Flowers had Kevin from Beyond the Fundamentals on his show:

Reformed Baptists have existed for hundreds of years, and there have been Reformed Baptists in the SBC from the very beginning. There wouldn't be the BFM without the New Hampshire Confession, and there wouldn't be the New Hampshire Confession without the 1689 London Baptist Confession.

Nowhere does the Bible say that the universe is less than 10,000 years old. Christian geologists discovered the earth's antiquity before Charles Darwin was even born, and one need not accept evolution to see the clear evidence in nature of an old universe.

But I am not going to reject you from a church because of your belief in young earth creationism, just as you shouldn't reject me or Albert Mohler, John Piper, Mark Dever, etc. just because of Calvinism.

I think Kevin might need to go back to the Reformation understanding of the church, "In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity."

 

[Humble_Disciple]

It seems that the SBC is evenly split between Calvinists and Arminians:
Poll: SBC pastors have 'mix of beliefs' about Calvinism - Baptist Courier

It would be really silly, in my opinion, if there were a split in the SBC over Calvinism and Arminianism, especially since Baptist churches are congregational in polity, and therefore each invidiual SBC church should decide the matter for themselves, while maintaining unity with the denomination.

 

[JM]

Before the Particular Calvinistic Baptists corrected them the Free Will Baptists were pouring and sprinkling their converts and calling it "baptism!"

It would be nice if the word was translated properly in modern versions. I believe that would help.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[Humble_Disciple]

This is a message that both Calvinists and Arminians should remember:

1 Corinthians 8:2-3
Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

There's really no point to arguing with an anti-Calvinist. Those who read their own human standards of fairness into the Bible will not listen, no matter how many verses you quote to them.

Calvinists, on the other hand, typically lack the philosophical presuppositions that would prevent them from accepting Arminianism, if it were proved from scripture.

At the end of the day, it's more important to love God than to be right about everything.
1 Corinthians 8:2-3

 

[Humble_Disciple]

If saving faith is entirely a gift of the Holy Spirit, irrespective of our free-willed efforts to believe or disbelieve, as Augustine, Luther and Calvin taught, then those who deny it are blaspheming the Holy Spirit, committing the unpardonable sin.

Anti-Calvinists should be sure, then, that the Bible rejects irresistible (enabling, efficacious) grace before they reject it too.

The Holy Spirit will work in the lives of the elect so that they inevitably will come to faith in Christ. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit never fails to bring to salvation those sinners whom He personally calls to Christ (John 6:37-40)...

Another misconception concerning this doctrine is that it teaches the Holy Spirit cannot be resisted at all. Yet, again, that is not what the doctrine teaches because that is not what the Bible teaches. God’s grace can be resisted, and the Holy Spirit’s influence can be resisted even by one of the elect. However, what the doctrine does correctly recognize is that the Holy Spirit can overcome all such resistance and that He will draw the elect with an irresistible grace that makes them want to come to God and helps them to understand the gospel so they can and will believe it.
Irresistible Grace - is it biblical? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Humble_Disciple]

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Historical Baptist confessions matter because otherwise, people will believe whatever new thing comes along.

Leighton Flowers insists that John 6:37-40 and John 15:16 apply to the original apostles only, while the New Hampshire Confession clearly says otherwise.

We believe that election is the eternal purpose of God, according to which he graciously regenerates, sanctifies, and saves sinners; that being perfectly consistent with the free agency of man, it comprehends all the means in connection with the end; that it is a most glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, being infinitely free, wise, holy and unchangeable; that it utterly excludes boasting, and promotes humility, love, prayer, praise, trust in God, and active imitation of his free mercy; that it encourages the use of means in the highest degree; that it may be ascertained by its effects in all who truly believe the gospel, that it is the foundation of Christian assurance; and that to ascertain it with regard to ourselves demands and deserves the utmost diligence.

II Tim. 1:8-9; Eph. 1:3-14; I Peter 1:1-2; Rom. 11:5-6; John 15;16; I John 4:19; II Thess. 2:13-14; Acts 13:48; John 10:16; Matt. 20:16; Acts 15:14; Ex. 33:18-19; Matt. 20:15; Eph. 1:11; Rom. 9:23-24; Jer. 31:3; Rom.11:28-29; James 1:17-18; II Tim.1:9; Rom. 11:32-36; I Cor. 1:26-31; Rom.3:27; Rom. 4:16; Col.3:12; I Cor. 3:5-7; I Cor. 15:10; I Peter 5:10; Acts 1:24; I Thess. 2:13; I Peter 2:9; Luke 18:7; John 15:16; I Thess. 2:12; II Tim. 2:10; I Cor. 9:22; Rom. 8:28-30; John 6:37-40; I Thess 1:4-10; Isa. 42:16; Rom. 11:29; II Peter 1:10-11; Phil. 3:12; Heb. 6:11
http://baptiststudiesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/the-new-hampshire-confession-of-faith.pdf

Dr. Flowers is able to get away with this because of how ignorant many Baptists are of their own history. It's shameless how Flowers characterizes his own position as "traditionalism," while ignoring Baptist history.

Without the New Hampshire Confession, there would be no BFM. Without the 1689 London Baptist Confession, there would be no New Hampshire Confession. Reformed Baptists have been in the SBC from the beginning.

It's like he's a used car salesman, a smooth talker with a handsome face who doesn't really have much substantive to say. Leighton Flowers is the Joel Osteen of anti-Calvinism.
2 Corinthians 11:14, John 7:24, 1 Corinthians 8:2-3

I will go even further and say that Leighton Flowers is a false prophet, using his title as director of evangelism and apologetics for Texas Baptists to promote anti-Calvinism.

What kind of message does that send for evangelism? We want you to be saved as long as you don't accept Calvinism?

This is one of the most emotionally manipulative videos I've ever seen:

Why should we judge God by Leighton Flowers' standards rather than the Bible's standards?

Isaiah 55:8-9
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.”

1 Corinthians 2:15-16
The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, for,“Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Romans 11:34
Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been His counselor?

There are numerous Bible verses and quotations from the church fathers supporting the five points of Calvinism. The doctrines of grace are simply a convenient way of articulating what’s already revealed in the Bible.

It’s only called “Calvinism” because John Calvin popularized the doctrines of grace, he did not originate them. It’s the same doctrines that Augustine taught against Pelagius and Luther taught against Rome.

Calvinism in the Early Church (The Doctrines of Grace taught by the Early Church Fathers) | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

What is Calvinism and is it biblical?

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Coming soon from Founders Ministries...

 

[Humble_Disciple]

I'm not here to question Leighton Flowers' salvation, since only God can judge his heart.

I'm just pointing out the apparent conflict of interest between Leighton Flowers being the head of evangelism and apologetics for Texas Baptists while also being the main promoter of anti-Calvinism on Youtube.

It sends the message that Leighton wants you to join the Baptist church, as long as you're not a Calvinist. This video, comparing Calvinists to neo-Nazis, was made by a guest on his show:

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Based on reading the Bible, after praying for the guidance of the Holy Spirit, I am no longer a Calvinist:

Jeremiah 18: Romans 9 De-Calvinized
John Calvin: Not a Calvinist

My intent on this forum has not been to convince others that Calvinism is true, but only that they should be more tolerant of Calvinists, especially since some of history's greatest missionaries and evangelists have been Calvinists.

I still consider the New Hampshire Confession of faith to be the gold standard of Baptist confessions.

The confession, whether intentionally or unintentionally, was worded in such a way as to be acceptable to Calvinists, Arminians, and even Molinists:

We believe that Election is the eternal purpose of God, according to which he graciously regenerates, sanctifies, and saves sinners; [2107] that being perfectly consistent with the free agency of man...
The New Hampshire Baptist Confession. A. D. 1833.

As long as you are an Arminian or Molinist who also believes in eternal security, you can also accept this part of the confession, as well as its equivalent in the BFM:

We believe that such only are real believers as endure unto the end; [2119] that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors; [2120] that a special Providence watches over their welfare; [2121] and they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.
The New Hampshire Baptist Confession. A. D. 1833.

I have realized why I disagree with Leighton Flowers so strongly.

He seems to reject the doctrine of prevenient grace while holding too weak a view of God's sovereignty.

I need to learn more about Molinism as a middle ground between God's sovereignty and human free will.

My intent has not been to convince others that Calvinism is true, but only that they should be more tolerant of Calvinists, especially since some of history's greatest missionaries and evangelists have been Calvinists.

Calvinism is just a framework for understanding the text of scripture, and I've never claimed that it's required for salvation. I am just as offended by anti-Calvinists as I am by young earth creationists who attack Hugh Ross for not believing that the earth is less than 10,000 years old.

Just as the Bible doesn't specifically endorse either old earth or young earth creationism, it doesn't specifically endorse either Calvinism or anti-Calvinism. I just wish there were more tolerance for points of view that aren't required for salvation.

 

[JM]

Finney was a disgusting figure in American Evangelicalism. Decisional regeneration, humanistic evangelism, mishandling ministers and Elders he disagreed with, the list goes on. Do you realize Finney essentially ruined entire districts of the American society? The first time someone "treed a coon" was at one of his "revival meetings." You do know he lied to be ordained right? He said he swore on the Westminster Confessions but denied them calling them "dead letters..." he was a liar.

Very poor choice for an avatar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzy3bIbuKEY

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Finney was a disgusting figure in American Evangelicalism. Decisional regeneration, humanistic evangelism, mishandling ministers and Elders he disagreed with, the list goes on. Do you realize Finney essentially ruined entire districts of the American society? The first time someone "treed a coon" was at one of his "revival meetings." You do know he lied to be ordained right? He said he swore on the Westminster Confessions but denied them calling them "dead letters..." he was a liar.

Charles Finney was an abolitionist who provided equal education to women and minorities.
Who is the real Charles Finney, America's Greatest Revivalist?

Up to 50,000 people a week, with the help of the Holy Spirit, were converted to Christ after hearing Finney's preaching, most of whom remained life-long and repentant believers. Imagine if we had this kind of revival today.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

If Charles Finney was so bad, why was Charles Spurgeon, the prince of preachers, one of his admirers and promoters?

 

[JM]

Charles Finney was an abolitionist who provided equal education to women and minorities.
Who is the real Charles Finney, America's Greatest Revivalist?

So? A broken clock is right twice a day that doesn't make it a Christian clock.

Up to 50,000 people a week, with the help of the Holy Spirit, were converted to Christ after hearing Finney's preaching, most of whom remained life-long and repentant believers. Imagine if we had this kind of revival today.

Yeah, no lol. After Finney left an area it was called the burn over district because thousands made false professions of faith, continued to live the like the devil and couldn't be convinced in the easy believism. They couldn't be saved! They continued in their sins.

 

[JM]

If Charles Finney was so bad, why was Charles Spurgeon, the prince of preachers, one of his admirers and promoters?

I don't like Finney and barely stand Spurgy. He was a preacher not a theologian and often made mistakes based on the information he had. Finney LIED to be ordained. That should tell you something about the man.