Best Form of Church Governance

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I am in China as I write this and am teaching with a Bible school with the house churches. What saddens me is that with less persecution the house churches here are adopting many things from contemporary charismatic church in America. Most have a single pastor and not elders and many are hoping to get large with church buildings.

The bad/good news is that the Department of Religion in Beijing is proposing three new laws, which are actually not new at all but have not been enforced since the death of Mao. These are the confiscation of all property owned by unregistered churches (i.e. church buildings and their equipment), no unregistered meetings of more than three Christians, and no Christian instruction or evangelism for anyone under the age of 18. I have mixed feelings about this because the church here was really alive and growing during the period of persecution but now has many nominal Christians.

Yes , it is not as it seems outwardly.
The assemblies/ ecclesia I refer to is nicknamed the church of the silent lips. They have no advertising, no internet presence, no known address or contact information;
if they are found out(for the last 20 to 30 years or more) they are arrested and everyone with them. Many are executed summarily.
They do not even speak out loud the name of JESUS nor sing out loud in their meetings : thus the "silent lips". They only silently mouth the words for their songs and devotions and speaking the word to one another, or very very quietly.

Yet there are many converts. People (neighbors, co-workers, family members) SEE THE DIFFERENCE in their totally changed lives as ecclesia after they are immersed in Y'SHUA'S NAME. So without a word, many (or few depending on perspective), are converted even without ever HEARING the name of Y'SHUA. It is most amazing and perfect and right and good and wonderful and humbling and convicting to see and hear of these disciples of Y'SHUA.

 

[LinkH]

The primary purpose of elders is to oversee the flock. Doing that also includes such things as pastoring (shepherding) and teaching.

In most churches today if there are elders they are distinctly beneath the pastor and are generally viewed as being a board of directors, much like a business board. The pastor is the CEO of the church and his board (of elders or deacons) is there to support him.

THe result of the Reformed movement copying the city government of Geneva as a pattern for church government.

 

[LinkH]

I am in China as I write this and am teaching with a Bible school with the house churches. What saddens me is that with less persecution the house churches here are adopting many things from contemporary charismatic church in America. Most have a single pastor and not elders and many are hoping to get large with church buildings.

The bad/good news is that the Department of Religion in Beijing is proposing three new laws, which are actually not new at all but have not been enforced since the death of Mao. These are the confiscation of all property owned by unregistered churches (i.e. church buildings and their equipment), no unregistered meetings of more than three Christians, and no Christian instruction or evangelism for anyone under the age of 18. I have mixed feelings about this because the church here was really alive and growing during the period of persecution but now has many nominal Christians.

I wish the government there would decide that 'normal' religious activities covered by the constitution allowed for large unregistered meetings in homes for praye rand study of religious texts. There are so many societal changes there. You'd think they'd loosen up a bit.

 

[LinkH]

I read of one pastor that learned this, and then also his congregation. It took them several years in frequent prayer and all along giving up things they had before as a regular congregation.
They ended up giving the mortgage/deed of the property /building back to the 'denomination' they had been in, for free giving it back expecting nothing, peacefully.
Instead, after these years of prayer and obedience , they had over 100 different houses around the city where they met frequently, and occasionally had a larger meeting for worship and fellowship all together as directed by Y'SHUA in prayer over those years.
At the house meetings, many different people from many different churches met with them, without any pulling, prodding or attempts to get them to leave their original church. Simply and basically like 100+ 'oasis' or sources of living water for the people of the city.

Do you know which church this was and where?

 

[LinkH]

First off, the early churches did not have a pastor at all in the sense that we do now. They had gifted elders. They administered, taught, shepherded, and oversaw that flock. There was no property to administer as they met from house to house nor was there a church staff to oversee. Life was not as complicated with a gifted group of elders overseeing the church.

We should also note that a lot of what is done by 'the pastor' may have been done by 'the brethren' in the first century. Antioch may not have had appointed elders in Acts 13. We don't know. Acts had already mentioned the elders in Jerusalem at this point. But in Antioch, prophets and teachers prayed, and the Spirit directed them to separate Saul and Barnabas. So these men could be separated for ministry, apostolic ministry at that, without any reference to apostles or elders of the church laying hands on them. Gifted prophets and teachers did lay hands on them, and they were sent out. Paul/Saul and Barnabas left many churches behind without elders for a while.

The Bible doesn't say to have one pastor preach one long sermon. When Paul addresses the topic, he writes abotu 'every one of you' having a psalm, doctrine, tongue, revelation, interpretation, and says 'let all things be done unto edifying.' He says that all may prophesy, and gives some rules for order. Toward the end of the passage, he emphasizes that what he wrote were the commandments of the Lord.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Do you know which church this was and where?

It was ten to twenty five years ago I learned of it, and at the time it was known nation wide, in some circles anyway - there was a documentary type book published 'early' so to speak, meaning before the church was where it was going,
in order to (apparently) be a testimony to others of the steps (mostly prayer) the pastor and subsequently deacons and elders and then the rest of the members took fervent part in , ongoing. (i.e. not a one or two week or two month revival; but an ongoing fervent devotion to prayer and worship and fellowship ).
Several years ago I tried to find out again which church this was, as I had lost or given the book away,
but I could not find it.
It was somewhere like Albuquerque, N.M, or Santa Fe or one of the cities 'out that way'/ N.W. or AZ.
But more than that location wise I can't recall so far.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I wish the government there would decide that 'normal' religious activities covered by the constitution allowed for large unregistered meetings in homes for praye rand study of religious texts. There are so many societal changes there. You'd think they'd loosen up a bit.

You might think that, but it is not as simple as you might think. Many of the societal changes have been for the worse. For example, men now significantly outnumber women because of the advent of infanticide and the government population mandate of one child for most couples. If a couple does not have a son there will be nobody to care for them in their old age and they will die prematurely.

The excess of men has led to serious societal problems, as you can well imagine. The government is attempting to control every aspect of a person's life in order to create the ideal communist society. This notion of a harmonious society is deeply ingrained in Chinese culture and is the essence of Confucianism, which also set rules for each and every aspect of life including how to build your house correctly. It was Confucianism which kept Christianity at bay for centuries. Christianity is viewed as disruptive of society, especially gender roles where women have far greater value and freedom than in traditional Chinese culture.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

I don’t really have a preference as I see the merits for all three main systems (episcopal, presbyterian, and congregational.)

I may have a bias towards congregationalism as I was brought up Baptist all my life, and haven’t had much experience in other churches aside from VBS or being visiting a friend’s/relative’s church.