Bernie Sanders defends socialist Cuba

[grasping the after wind]

You don't understand what socialism means.

Do you?
socialism
[ˈsōSHəˌlizəm]
NOUN

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

 

[Tom 1]

How tiresome. Get back to us when you are willing, and if you are able, to respond to the content of the posts.

Here's one source: Spain set for socialist-led government after Iglesias deal

There are plenty of others, as an example of a socialist government. Perhaps you can explain how Spain's current socialist government fits your definition.

 

[JackRT]

How tiresome. Get back to us when you are willing, and if you are able, to respond to the content of the posts.

I agree, it does get tedious. On many issues people will simply create a straw man without actually making any effort to find the truth of the matter.

 

[Tom 1]

Do you?
socialism
[ˈsōSHəˌlizəm]
NOUN

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Feel free to use your expertise to respond to post #22.

 

[Albion]

socialism
[ˈsōSHəˌlizəm]
NOUN

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

...and even that dictionary definition isn't entirely accurate since, under Socialism, none of those things is actually owned by the community as a whole. They are owned by the government, which in turn means the governors, and any gesture in the direction of the "community" is nothing but a theory or talking point.

 

[Albion]

Here's one source: Spain set for socialist-led government after Iglesias deal

There are plenty of others, as an example of a socialist government. Perhaps you can explain how Spain's current socialist government fits your definition.

You are simply talking about political parties and their names, not Socialism. By the same token, there is nothing democratic about the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, but they still use the word.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Feel free to use your expertise to respond to post #22.

Having socialists lead a capitalist country's government does not make the country a socialist country with a socialist government . In a socialist country the economy is controlled or owned by the government and the socialists are the only ones taking part in the government, not just leading a government , as there are only socialists. No non socialists are allowed.

 

[Tom 1]

Having socialists lead a capitalist country's government does not make the country a socialist country with a socialist government . In a socialist country the economy is controlled or owned by the government and the socialists are the only ones taking part in the government, not just leading a government , as there are only socialists. No non socialists are allowed.

Spain’s socialist government is not socialist because it does not fit your definition of socialism. You can’t see what is wrong with that argument?

 

[Tom 1]

You are simply talking about political parties and their names, not Socialism. By the same token, there is nothing democratic about the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, but they still use the word.

A political party does not have a name, like Bob or Mary, for the purposes of having something to call it by. The name used is a defining term and relates to policies, philosophical outlook etc. That a socialist govt doesn’t fit what you think a socialist govt is is besides the point.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Spain’s socialist government is not socialist because it does not fit your definition of socialism. You can’t see what is wrong with that argument?

I see what is wrong with your argument as you have conflated socialist government with socialist led government. Is the UK government Tory government when the Tories are leading it and Labor government when the Labor Party leads it . Does the economic system become a Tory or Labor system because the party that is temporarily in power has that name? Of course not. the government remains a Parliamentary representative democracy and the economic system remains capitalist. If a party called the Rent is Too High Party were to lead a government would that make the economic system a rent is too high economic system? would the country become a rent is too high country? Unless a country is fundamentally changed by the socialists gaining power, it remains a capitalist country governed by whatever has been used to govern it previously no matter how many socialists have gotten elected to leadership positions. If the form of government is not authoritarian, then a socialist economic system cannot be imposed.

 

[Tom 1]

Does the economic system become a Tory or Labor system because the party that is temporarily in power has that name?

Well, yes. They introduce policies that reflect their political persuasion. These translate into a number of areas of public life.

 

[Albion]

Spain’s socialist government is not socialist because it does not fit your definition of socialism. You can’t see what is wrong with that argument?

Spain’s socialist government is not socialist because it does not fit your definition of socialism. You can’t see what is wrong with that argument?

There's nothing wrong with it. A party can call itself anything it wants. The governing party in Japan, for instance, is the Liberal Democratic Party, which everyone agrees is a conservative party. ​

 

[Tom 1]

There's nothing wrong with it. A party can call itself anything it wants. The governing party in Japan, for instance, is the Liberal Democratic Party, which everyone agrees is a conservative party. ​

Spain's socialist govt pursues socialist policies, making it a socialist party. The Japanese govt presumably persues conservative policies.

 

[Albion]

Spain's socialist govt pursues socialist policies, making it a socialist party.

You're missing the point. We were talking about Socialism.

 

[timothyu]

We were talking about Socialism.

Like in the Sermons on the Mounts?

 

[Tom 1]

You're missing the point. We were talking about Socialism.

Fine, the socialist govt in Spain applies principles of socialism in planning its policies.

 

[Cimorene]

I hope that Cuba is not our roll model now ?
Some seem to think so ?
M-Bob

Cuban rolls are bomb so yeah I can see why they'd be models of excellence, lol.

But you mean role model.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Like in the Sermons on the Mounts?

What are the Sermons on the Mounts? Perhaps you could quote from those sermons on those mounts where the sermonizers in those Sermons spoke about government control or ownership of the means of production?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Fine, the socialist govt in Spain applies principles of socialism in planning its policies.

No, the government of Spain is not socialist. The Socialists now leading the government of capitalist Spain are certainly attempting to bring Spain closer to a socialist state but they cannot be said to have succeeded in making the government socialist until capitalism is no longer the economic system in Spain. Socialism is all or nothing. You cannot just elect a few socialists to lead a coalition government and claim to be a socialist government while allowing capitalism to remain the functioning economic system.
Spain is officially a Constitutional Monarchy.
What Type of Government Does Spain Have?

 

[Tom 1]

No, the government of Spain is not socialist. The Socialists now leading the government of capitalist Spain are certainly attempting to bring Spain closer to a socialist state but they cannot be said to have succeeded in making the government socialist until capitalism is no longer the economic system in Spain. Socialism is all or nothing. You cannot just elect a few socialists to lead a coalition government and claim to be a socialist government while allowing capitalism to remain the functioning economic system.
Spain is officially a Constitutional Monarchy.
What Type of Government Does Spain Have?

Welcome to the stuff you think/reality barrier. In your head socialism may be all or nothing, in reality many governments successfully blend elements of different political philosophies, and the ruling govt determines which will predominantly influence it’s approach to policy making and implementation. Whether or not that fits in with your definition has nothing to do with how that actually happens.