Believers stay righteous through their obedience

[BCsenior]

We’re talking about obedience to Jesus’ teachings and commands! Continuing obedience is what “being faithful” means!

“… only we who believe can enter His rest … but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God.”
(Hebrews 4:3, 7)
Disobedience proves Unbelief
Unbelief causes Disobedience

“And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter His rest? Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest … so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it …
IF we disobey God … we will fall.”
(Hebrews 3:18 - 4:11)

“… make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God … so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God.” (Hebrews 3:12)
If we are deceived by sin (especially habitual sin),
this can result in departing from God with
“an evil heart of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:12).

“Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either (slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death, OR (slaves) of obedience leading too righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)
Slaves of obedience > eternal life
Slaves of sin > eternal death

“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God. But there is no (eternal) life in those who do not keep His commandments.”
(from “The Shepherd of Hermas”, quoted as Scripture by such early Christian leaders as Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen. It was probably the most popular book in the Christian church during the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries a.d.)

“Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.”
(James 1:12)
The “crown of life” means eternal life.

“You are truly my disciples, if you remain faithful to my teachings … anyone who obeys my teachings will never die!” (John 8:31, 51)

“Therefore, go and make disciples … Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you.” (Matthew 28:19-20)

“We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.” (2 Corinthians 10:5)

“To all who are victorious (overcomers) who obey Me to the very end, to them I will give authority over all the nations.” (Revelation 2:26)

The church: “all who keep God’s commandments and maintain their testimony for Jesus.” (Revelation 12:17)

“So, you must live as God’s obedient children.”
(1 Peter 1:14)

Question: Must one love Jesus
(thus obey His commandments)
to get to heaven?

“If you love Me, obey My commandments.”
(John 14:15)

“Those who accept My commandments and obey them are the ones who love Me … All who love Me will do what I say. Anyone who doesn’t love Me will not obey Me.” (John 14:21-24)

“When you obey My commandments, you remain in My love” (John 15:10)

“You are My friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)

“We can be sure we know Him, if we obey His commandments” (1 John 2:3)

“He who keeps His commandments abides in Him and He in him” (1 John 3:24)

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love” (1 John 3:24)

“Loving God means keeping His commandments” (1 John 5:3)

“Love means doing what God has commanded us” (2 John 6)

Even though OT people had none of our advantages,
God said He would show mercy “to those who love Me and keep My commandments” (Exodus 20:6)

 

[bcbsr]

We’re talking about obedience to Jesus’ teachings and commands! Continuing obedience is what “being faithful” means!

“… only we who believe can enter His rest … but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God.”
(Hebrews 4:3, 7)
Disobedience proves Unbelief
Unbelief causes Disobedience

“And to whom was God speaking when he took an oath that they would never enter His rest? Wasn’t it the people who disobeyed him? So we see that because of their unbelief they were not able to enter his rest … so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it …
IF we disobey God … we will fall.”
(Hebrews 3:18 - 4:11)

“… make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God … so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God.” (Hebrews 3:12)
If we are deceived by sin (especially habitual sin),
this can result in departing from God with
“an evil heart of unbelief” (Hebrews 3:12).

“Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either (slaves) of sin which leads to (eternal) death, OR (slaves) of obedience leading too righteousness?” (Romans 6:16)
Slaves of obedience > eternal life
Slaves of sin > eternal death

“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God. But there is no (eternal) life in those who do not keep His commandments.”
(from “The Shepherd of Hermas”, quoted as Scripture by such early Christian leaders as Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen. It was probably the most popular book in the Christian church during the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries a.d.)

“Afterward they will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.”
(James 1:12)
The “crown of life” means eternal life.

“You are truly my disciples, if you remain faithful to my teachings … anyone who obeys my teachings will never die!” (John 8:31, 51)

“Therefore, go and make disciples … Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you.” (Matthew 28:19-20)

“We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.” (2 Corinthians 10:5)

“To all who are victorious (overcomers) who obey Me to the very end, to them I will give authority over all the nations.” (Revelation 2:26)

The church: “all who keep God’s commandments and maintain their testimony for Jesus.” (Revelation 12:17)

“So, you must live as God’s obedient children.”
(1 Peter 1:14)

Question: Must one love Jesus
(thus obey His commandments)
to get to heaven?

“If you love Me, obey My commandments.”
(John 14:15)

“Those who accept My commandments and obey them are the ones who love Me … All who love Me will do what I say. Anyone who doesn’t love Me will not obey Me.” (John 14:21-24)

“When you obey My commandments, you remain in My love” (John 15:10)

“You are My friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)

“We can be sure we know Him, if we obey His commandments” (1 John 2:3)

“He who keeps His commandments abides in Him and He in him” (1 John 3:24)

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love” (1 John 3:24)

“Loving God means keeping His commandments” (1 John 5:3)

“Love means doing what God has commanded us” (2 John 6)

Even though OT people had none of our advantages,
God said He would show mercy “to those who love Me and keep My commandments” (Exodus 20:6)

Contrary to the theology of performance based salvation, or essentially "salvation by works", which rejects the grace of God and the free gift of eternal life, the truth is that performance is an effect of salvation rather than the cause if it. Not performance based salvation, but salvation based performance, due to the nature of regeneration such that "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

 

[BCsenior]

Contrary to the theology of performance based salvation, or essentially "salvation by works", which rejects the grace of God and the free gift of eternal life ...

This statement does not apply to me.
Everything begins with the grace of God,
which is followed by God's free gift of salvation.
However, the NT tells us that it is possible to
"fall from grace", fall away, draw back to perdition.
We have a part to play in our salvation.
Many NT verses prove that this is a process.
E.G. Many NT verses say we must endure
in the faith until the end of our lives.

 

[bcbsr]

This statement does not apply to me.
Everything begins with the grace of God,
which is followed by God's free gift of salvation.
However, the NT tells us that it is possible to
"fall from grace", fall away, draw back to perdition.
We have a part to play in our salvation.
Many NT verses prove that this is a process.
E.G. Many NT verses say we must endure
in the faith until the end of our lives.

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us,
they would have remained with us;
but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1John 2:19

Thus Those who "fall away" are those who never really belonged to begin with.

 

[BCsenior]

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us,
they would have remained with us;
but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1John 2:19
Thus Those who "fall away" are those who never really belonged to begin with.

Yes, in that instance, some who didn't believe
the same as they did went out from among them.

But, IMO, you're failing to accept many NT verses
for what they're obviously saying.

One of my favorites is about ...
"those who draw back to perdition" (Heb 10:39).
The point is that they believed once,
but then something happened,
such as: they lost their faith.
They drew back from the faith they once had.

Regardless, you're rejecting the verses in the OP.

 

[Willie T]

Kind of sad, but ever so prevalent. "Tightrope over Hell."

 

[bcbsr]

Yes, in that instance.

Wrong. Not simply "in that instance".

Notice John teaches a general principle
"For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us"

And I don't reject the verses in the OP. I simply reject your salvation by works interpretation of such verses.

For example
"Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." is followed by "But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul." Heb 10:39

How would he know "we are not of those"? Because he's referring to those genuine believers, born of God, where the principle I mentioned above applies

 

[BCsenior]

"Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." is followed by "But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul." Heb 10:39

How would he know "we are not of those"? Because he's referring to those genuine believers, born of God, where the principle I mentioned above applies

Sorry, Paul didn't know exactly who who is who.
Who are the sheep and who are the goats?

No, he did know, however, that the ones who
draw back from the faith would be lost.

And, he did not know IF any of his buddies
would, in the future, fall back.
Paul was always edifying, exhorting, encouraging
... sometimes to the point of almost lying.

Evidently, this is what Jesus taught him about how
to deal with the churches ... during his 17 years
in the desert places (end of Gal 1, start of Gal 2).

 

[bcbsr]

Sorry, Paul didn't know exactly who who is who.
... sometimes to the point of almost lying.

So you resolve the fact that Heb 10:39 speaks confidently of the future of the "we" by calling Paul a liar. Got it. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[BCsenior]

So you resolve the fact that Heb 10:39 speaks confidently of the future of the "we" by calling Paul a liar. Got it. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Cool it, dude ... Can't we have different opinions?

"Paul was always edifying, exhorting, encouraging
... sometimes to the point of almost lying."

Almost lying is not lying.

 

[BCsenior]

“If anyone does not love the Lord,
that person is cursed.” (1 Corinthians 16:22, NLT)

“If you love Me, obey My commandments.”
(John 14:15)
“Those who accept My commandments and obey them are the ones who love Me … All who love Me will do what I say. Anyone who doesn’t love Me
will not obey Me.” (John 14:21-24)
“When you obey My commandments,
you remain in My love” (John 15:10)
“You are My friends, if you do what I command.” (John 15:14)
“We can be sure we know Him, if we obey His commandments” (1 John 2:3)
“He who keeps His commandments abides in Him and He in him” (1 John 3:24)
“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love” (1 John 3:24)
“Loving God means keeping His commandments” (1 John 5:3)
“Love means doing what God has commanded us” (2 John 6)

Even though OT people had none of our advantages,
God said He would show mercy “to those who love Me and keep My commandments” (Exodus 20:6)

 

[BBAS 64]

Cool it, dude ... Can't we have different opinions?

"Paul was always edifying, exhorting, encouraging
... sometimes to the point of almost lying."

Almost lying is not lying.

Sort of like being a little pregnant ??

 

[BCsenior]

Sort of like being a little pregnant ??

Okay, okay, okay ... I'll submit to givin' a little example:

Romans 6 (NKJV) again ...
v.13 "(present) your members as instruments
of righteousness to God."
v.16 "you are that one’s slaves whom you obey ...
or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?"
v.18 "you became slaves of righteousness."
v.19 "so now present your members
as slaves of righteousness for holiness."

Exactly what kind of tom-foolery in this?
Are these Roman BACs righteous, or not?
You don't have to answer this ... too complicated.

 

[BCsenior]

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