Believers Invest in the Gospel of Getting Rich...

[gratefulgrace]

Like that's gonna happen

 

[pinetree]

That he did but he also was humble enough to accept help from the body when he was unable to support himself (while in prison)and he was discerning enough to know that it was God's grace providing for him at all times. gg

Yes, I agree, with this Pinetree. Even Jesus relied on the charity of others to live. He did not earn an income himself. There's nothing at all wrong with pastors relying on the members of the church for income, not at all. If anything, I would think they must dedicate their whole life to ministry to be a truly effective minister and teacher.

But, not everyone with a message needs a church to support them. The very life a Christian should be marked with his or her faith and the light of Christ they become in the secular community. I just don't think we should earn an income from it. We can minister to others even at our secular jobs.

It is quite out of balance though...

here are more verses you never haer from preachers,who want money..

1 Timothy 3:3
not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

1 Peter 5:2
Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve;

Titus 1:7
For the bishop (an overseer) as God's steward must be blameless, not self-willed or arrogant or presumptuous; he must not be quick-tempered or given to drink or pugnacious (brawling, violent); he must not be grasping and greedy for filthy lucre (financial gain);

 

[pinetree]

I think some preachers have defective bibles,and those verses are missing?

 

[rahmiyn]

It is quite out of balance though...

Sadly, this is so true. But, I do believe the Lord sees all, and He will make known what is and is not from Him in good time.

 

[pinetree]

Sadly, this is so true. But, I do believe the Lord sees all, and He will make known what is and is not from Him in good time.

ohhh...so you do believe in object truth in scripture...

just kidding...joke from other thread..

 

[marktheblake]

I'm being honest when I say that if my source of income was teaching the gospel I would feel quite convicted about owning a BMW or a Jet or living in a mansion.

For most pastors that own a BMW etc their main source of income is not teaching the gospel. All you people seem to link a pastors affluence to the tithing from his congregation, you are wrong.

And, if you're teaching that giving everything you have

Lucky for them then, because they do not teach that.

(which is what some of the poorest members in the congregation are compelled to do)

No they are not. The teaching is to give from the heart, not all you have.

 

[JimB]

For most pastors that own a BMW etc their main source of income is not teaching the gospel. All you people seem to link a pastors affluence to the tithing from his congregation, you are wrong.

*****

Does it matter?

Flaunting one’s “success,” however it is earned, by gaudy outward accoutrements, expensive designer cars, lear jets, thousand-dollar suits, two-million dollar homes, etc.etc. are more of a sign of one’s insecurity and feelings of inferiority than of success, IMO. Billionaire Sam Walton (Wal-Mart), a solid Presbyterian and one of the most successful businessmen who ever lived, never felt the need to flaunt his success like so many pop idol preachers do today. He wore worn-out overalls, drove a decade-old red pick-up truck, and lived in the same modest home in the same little town where he first began his business in 1962. And did I mention that he was a billionaire? The result was that his employees always felt that he was approachable and accessible and just like them (try to personally contact one of these flamboyant-type celebrity preachers and see how far you get—I know, I’ve tried.)

~Jim

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. ​

​

 

[rahmiyn]

ohhh...so you do believe in object truth in scripture...

just kidding...joke from other thread..

 

[rahmiyn]

For most pastors that own a BMW etc their main source of income is not teaching the gospel. All you people seem to link a pastors affluence to the tithing from his congregation, you are wrong.

Ultimately, we have to decide whether or not to align ourselves with such ministries, and I have decided firmly I will not. That's the best I can add to what I've already posted here.

 

[lismore]

I think some preachers have defective bibles,and those verses are missing?

They only pick out the 'positive' bits and ignore the rest!

 

[Seeking Him]

I'm being honest when I say that if my source of income was teaching the gospel I would feel quite convicted about owning a BMW or a Jet or living in a mansion. There's nothing wrong with living in a small house and driving a regular car. And, if you're teaching that giving everything you have (which is what some of the poorest members in the congregation are compelled to do--sometimes being encouraged to use credit cards) then what better example can you provide than to live modestly just as others do.

There's nothing wrong with modest living. And, I can't imagine the Lord agreeing on the extra money being best spent on something material, especially those things that have become a status symbol for the worldly rich.

Ultimately, God is our judge. But, I stand firm that I will not be aligned with the prosperity doctrine. That says nothing to how strongly I feel that giving is important, though. But, the teaching is out of sync with what the Bible teaches on giving. It abuses the very definition of 'riches, 'gifts,' and 'blessings,' by applying them to material things instead of spiritual growth.

Well said, I totally agree!

 

[gratefulgrace]

It's not just picking out the good bits but reading scripture in light of preconceived notions. Ihave even heard people say that Jesus himself was very wealthy materially. Not quite sure how they got that idea in light of Jesus own words.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=8&v=20&t=NKJV#comm/19
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=8&v=20&t=NKJV#dict/19

Mat 8:19Then a certain scribe came and said to Him, "Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=8&v=20&t=NKJV#dict/20

Mat 8:20And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air [have] nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay [His] head."

 

[gratefulgrace]

What he did have was obedience and submission to the will of the Father and faith.

 

[marktheblake]

Mat 8:20And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air [have] nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay [His] head."

Apparently (this means i have heard this from elsewhere)
Foxes do not live in holes.
Birds do not live in nests.

They raise babies in holes/nests.

I don't think this is actually meaning that Jesus is a homeless man, and i have since forgotten the conclusion of this little revelation, but i do have it on CD somewhere,probably Shane Willard who teaches Hebrew thinking for understanding the bible. When we read something, we understand "form" when the Hebrew reads, he understands "function"

 

[rahmiyn]

Apparently (this means i have heard this from elsewhere)
Foxes do not live in holes.
Birds do not live in nests.

They raise babies in holes/nests.

I don't think this is actually meaning that Jesus is a homeless man, and i have since forgotten the conclusion of this little revelation, but i do have it on CD somewhere,probably Shane Willard who teaches Hebrew thinking for understanding the bible. When we read something, we understand "form" when the Hebrew reads, he understands "function"

But, Jesus is referring to himself as "nowhere to lay his head," meaning he does not have a place of his own to sleep. I believe it's very important that the gospels never recorded, nor did the epistles ever say that Jesus had a physical home.

It is very clear that the apostles who followed after Jesus lived the same kind of life, traveling and preaching the good news, or in Paul's case, writing letters from prison, content most with spreading the good news of Christ, but relying on the churches to feed and clothe them.

Paul warns about those who try to be like him who are getting rich, though:

But, godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. (1 Tim 6:6-10

He's clearly talking about Christians as he refers to them as wandering from the faith.

 

[marktheblake]

But, Jesus is referring to himself as "nowhere to lay his head," meaning he does not have a place of his own to sleep

Thats form, hebrew people think function.

Paul warns about those who try to be like him who are getting rich, though:

Paul is talking about what is in someones heart, he is not saying that a Christian cannot be rich.

 

[pinetree]

Apparently (this means i have heard this from elsewhere)
Foxes do not live in holes.
Birds do not live in nests.

They raise babies in holes/nests.

I don't think this is actually meaning that Jesus is a homeless man, and i have since forgotten the conclusion of this little revelation, but i do have it on CD somewhere,probably Shane Willard who teaches Hebrew thinking for understanding the bible. When we read something, we understand "form" when the Hebrew reads, he understands "function"

Yes,but the prosperity movement teaches that Jesus was materially rich..

I disagree....


If Jesus was rich..they would not have said..

"Is this not the carpenters son",that was a derogatory statement,about their family status.Not wealthy,or they would have had status.

Carpenters.. He was a craftsman.(tekton 5045)

Definition:
1) a worker in wood, a carpenter, joiner, builder
1a) a ship's carpenter or builder
2) any craftsman, or workman
2a) the art of poetry, maker of songs
3) a planner, contriver, plotter
3a) an author


As far as his robe,with no seem..somehow meaning he was rich..

Why then when asked about John,did Jesus said those who wear fine robes,live in palaces?

Matt 11:8
If not, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? No, those who wear fine clothes are in kings' palaces.

Jesus nor John lived that way.

Seamless robes were not all that uncommon.

It does not say Jesus had a purple robe,in fact they put that on Him,His was not purple.

His garment,that was put on,AFTER the expensive purple one,would have been sweat and blood stained,even though it was put on after the beatings, it would be blood soaked,and lost it's value a the supposed.."fine expensive garment".

So the reason the guards bid on it,was obviously because Jesus was already becoming a historical person,so the monetary gain would be for the robe who it belonged to,not that it was expensive in and of itself..

Here it shows an expensive robe they put on,contrary to the one he had on.

Luke 23:11
Then Herod and his soldiers ridiculed and mocked him. Dressing him in an elegant robe, they sent him back to Pilate.

This verse shows that a purple robe was for the rich,Jesus did not have a purple one.

Luke 16:19
[ The Rich Man and Lazarus ] "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.

As we see here,purple was worth money,as per it being a profitable item

Acts 16:14
A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.

Also,the fact that Joseph and Mary offered a sacrifice of a pair of doves,shows that they were not wealthy,as to buy a spotless lamb.The birds only cost a few pennies.

Leviticus 12:8

And if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. And the priest shall make atonement for her, and she shall be clean.’”

 

[rahmiyn]

Paul is talking about what is in someones heart, he is not saying that a Christian cannot be rich.

Again, I'm not talking about Christians being rich. I'm talking about prosperity teachers who own BMWs, private jets, and live in mansions. I can see where the Lord would use an everyday Christian who is very wealthy to witness and minster to his or her peers. He needs Christians in every walk of life, I believe.

But, for a teacher or preacher to live any way other than modestly goes against all Paul's instructions. Read the epistles, as he brings this up quite a few times. He even slams people who seek to get rich off the gospel.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Even if the robe was a good one that does not mean Jesus was materially wealthy in the sense of accumulating STUFF. In a sense He was very rich as He truly believed that God would supply all of His needs. For example the tax to pay Ceasar found supernatually in the mouth of the fish the disciple caught. We never hear Him ask for money and yet we never get a sense that He was ever concerned about it either. God supplied his needs and yes some of it was from the people that followed Him.

Needs not desires necessities not baggage. gg

Luk 8:1Now it came to pass, afterward, that He went through every city and village, preaching and bringing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God. And the twelve were with Him,

Luk 8:2and certain women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities--Mary called Magdalene, out of whom had come seven demons,

Luk 8:3and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others who provided for Him [fn] from their substance.

 

[pinetree]

Again, I'm not talking about Christians being rich. I'm talking about prosperity teachers who own BMWs, private jets, and live in mansions. I can see where the Lord would use an everyday Christian who is very wealthy to witness and minster to his or her peers. He needs Christians in every walk of life, I believe.

But, for a teacher or preacher to live any way other than modestly goes against all Paul's instructions. Read the epistles, as he brings this up quite a few times. He even slams people who seek to get rich off the gospel.

Yes,It was the very doctrine of Jesus,that Paul was speaking of..

False Teachers and True Contentment

1 Tim 6:3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,

Then the amplified spells it out..


5And protracted wrangling and wearing discussion and perpetual friction among men who are corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, who imagine that godliness or righteousness is a source of profit [a moneymaking business, a means of livelihood]. From such withdraw.