Believe what, exactly?

Ligurian said:

Believe what, exactly?

16 ούτω.γαρ ηγάπησεν ο θεός τον κόσμον ώστε
For so loved God the world that

τον.υιόν.αυτου μονογενη έδωκεν ίνα πας ο
his Son the only begotten he gave, that everyone who

πιστεύων εις αυτόν μη απόληται αλλ ́ έχη ζωήν αιώνιον
believes on him may not perish, but may have life eternal.
--Berry, Interlinear New Testament John 3:16

pisteuo = from pistis; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
pistis = from peitho; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
peitho = a primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy, to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively, to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty):--agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) conflent, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.

Doesn't "believe" need some definition of what is believed for it to be valid?

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Believe in him enough to follow his teachings. We can't reduce the entirety of Christianity into a bumper sticker slogan. Combine John 3:16 with Matthew 28:20. All that won't fit onto a refrigerator magnet but it's a good start.

Of course, mental assent is a poor substitution for spiritual faith, but generally speaking, to "believe" something means to "mentally assent" to the truth of it and thereafter act in accordance with what you are agreeing with. So, if you "assent" to the fact that "all liars go to the lake of fire" you should never lie again.
Spiritual faith is another matter. The Greek of John 3:16 does not use the word "en" (in) when it says "whosoever that believe in him shall not perish." The Greek word is "ice" or "into" hence :
"whosoever believes into Him will not perish but have eternal life."
The idea is that we are believing into his death, burial, resurrection, name, life, and body. Not merely a "mental assent" regarding the truth about who He is, what He did, the gospel, and the resurrection. Yes we must mentally agree with these things. We have to form the mental reality (renewed mind) so our true spiritual faith lines up with our thoughts and we can act accordingly.
Spiritual faith is of the spirit.
Mental assent is of the soul.

Ligurian said:

Doesn't "believe" need some definition of what is believed for it to be valid?

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pistis=commit to one's trust

Such as:
James 2:
12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Matthew 23:
3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do,
but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

Actions speak louder than words in the profession of our faith.
As to "what is believed", here is one for your approval.

Romans 10:
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in
your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with
the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Hi @Ligurian

Well, as far as Jesus. We need to believe his testimony, and his Father's, as to 'who' he is.

As far as Jesus' death. We need to believe that his death paid was the final and only sacrifice for our sin.

There is actually quite a lot within the Scriptures that God asks us to believe. For example: Jesus said that God's word is truth. If that's true, then we should always want to believe what is true. Who among us wants to believe things that aren't true? Not that a lot of people do believe things that are untrue, but they don't believe the untrue things to be untrue in their belief of them.

God bless,
Ted

Ligurian said:

Believe what, exactly?

16 ούτω.γαρ ηγάπησεν ο θεός τον κόσμον ώστε
For so loved God the world that

τον.υιόν.αυτου μονογενη έδωκεν ίνα πας ο
his Son the only begotten he gave, that everyone who

πιστεύων εις αυτόν μη απόληται αλλ ́ έχη ζωήν αιώνιον
believes on him may not perish, but may have life eternal.
--Berry, Interlinear New Testament John 3:16

pisteuo = from pistis; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
pistis = from peitho; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
peitho = a primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy, to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively, to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty):--agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) conflent, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.

Doesn't "believe" need some definition of what is believed for it to be valid?

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Believe in and trust on the atoning work (blood, Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the atonement and remission of one's sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty," declared righteous by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ through faith, as Abraham was declared righteous/justified (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3) with the imputed righteousness of God through faith (Romans 1:17; Romans 3:21).

The Gospel of John tells people what to believe.

That Jesus is The promised Messiah, only begotten Son of God, from prophecies of The Tanakh.
And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
If a person believes this, then trust in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”


Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

Hello @Ligurian, here's an excerpt from an article on saving faith that I hope will prove to be useful here in your thread. It shows us how the Protestant Reformers chose to define faith for us, and what they believed the necessary elements are that make up saving faith (since the central focus/instrumental cause of the Reformation concerned saving faith, it seems to me that they would be a worthy source to consider).

So, here you go

God bless you!

--David

Pistils has a range of meanings, including believe, trust, and also implies faithfulness. Even in English, believing in someone is more about relying on them than believing specific facts.

The Reformers thought the key meaning of pistils was trust.

John 3:36 seems to equate believe in to obey.

I’m sure John would say part of this is believing he was God’s son. I think d Taylor’s quotes point to this. But it’s not so obvious that it would require accepting 4th Century theological formulas, nor would I start with the cognitive part. I’d start with relying on Christ.

HTacianas said:

Believe in him enough to follow his teachings. We can't reduce the entirety of Christianity into a bumper sticker slogan. Combine John 3:16 with Matthew 28:20. All that won't fit onto a refrigerator magnet but it's a good start.

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hedrick said:

The Reformers thought the key meaning of pistils was trust. John 3:36 seems to equate believe in to obey.

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Hello Hedrick, the thought that obedience is (in a very real sense) part and parcel with true, saving faith certainly squares with what the Reformers believed, yes? (specifically because it, obedience, is part of the fruit that results from our having truly come into possession of such faith .. John 5:24. It is also, then, part of the evidence that gives us the assurance that we have truly been saved by Him .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 13:5).

Take this statement by Calvin, for instance (which Luther also said with nearly the same words).

God bless you!

--David

Ligurian said:

Believe what, exactly?

16 ούτω.γαρ ηγάπησεν ο θεός τον κόσμον ώστε
For so loved God the world that

τον.υιόν.αυτου μονογενη έδωκεν ίνα πας ο
his Son the only begotten he gave, that everyone who

πιστεύων εις αυτόν μη απόληται αλλ ́ έχη ζωήν αιώνιον
believes on him may not perish, but may have life eternal.
--Berry, Interlinear New Testament John 3:16

pisteuo = from pistis; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
pistis = from peitho; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
peitho = a primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy, to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively, to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty):--agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) conflent, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield.

Doesn't "believe" need some definition of what is believed for it to be valid?

Click to expand...

Believe in Him. Believe that God exists, first of all, simple as that sounds. But that's the basis of the whole thing because Adam's act of disobedience was simultaneously an act of disbelief as much as anything else. By literally disbelieving and not heeding God, Adam denied His authority, and thereby His very godhood.

And it's then to believe in His goodness, His trustworthiness, His mercy, His love. Jesus revealed a God truly worth believing in, hoping in, and loving. And that knowledge, and the faith, hope, and love it produces, is the basis of our justification, and therefore of our salvation.

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3

"I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord." Jer 31:33-34

Everyone is at a different point in their Spiritual life, faith and Love grow together by using them. Sometimes I start with a person who does not know anything about Christ, so what does that person need to realize first?

Greens literal translation:
(LITV) For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The topic is the new birth, and verse 16 tells us how to bring that new birth to pass in our life.

John 3:3 KJV
3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Paul expands on the thought.

Romans 6:3 KJV
3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Ephesians is especially powerful when speaking to our connection into Christ by faith.

Ephesians 2:5-10 KJV
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And Colossians
Colo 2:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Doctrinally, this is referred to as Baptism into Christ.

Roma 6:3 (KJS)
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? {were: or, are}
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

1Cor 12:13 (KJS)
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. {Gentiles: Gr. Greeks}

2 Cor 1:21 (KJS)
Now he which stablisheth us with you into Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;

Gala 2:16 (KJS)
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed into Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gala 3:27 (KJS)
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

John 12:46 (KJS)
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth into me should not abide in darkness.

Roma 3:22 (KJS)
Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ into all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

The entire concept in one of being baptized (immersed) into the medium. Christ is the medium, and we are immersed into Him when we believe into His death burial and resurrection.

The new birth is accomplished by the resurrection of Christ, and we were raised up together with Him into His life.

1 Peter 1:3 KJV
3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Ligurian said:

Rahab lied and lives on in Jesus' lineage.
There's lying and then there is intending to harm someone.

Revelation 22:13-15 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed [are] they that do His Commandments that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.KJV

Where verse 14 is the front of the coin, 15 is the reverse.
Failure to keep His Commandments is what caused the fall from Eden... hence the tree of life.



Like I said... from Berry's Interlinear New Testament
John 3:16...

ούτω.γαρ ηγάπησεν ο θεός τον κόσμον ώστε
For so loved God the world that
τον.υιόν.αυτου μονογενη έδωκεν ίνα πας ο
his Son the only begotten he gave, that everyone who
πιστεύων εις αυτόν μη απόληται αλλ ́ έχη ζωήν αιώνιον
believes on him may not perish, but may have life eternal.

From Thayer's Lexicon: εις
1. of a place entered, or of entrance into a place, into; and a. it stands before nouns designating an open place, a hollow thing, or one in which an object can be hidden...
2. If the surface only of the place entered is touched or occupied, εἰς, like the Latinin, may (often) be rendered on, upon, (German auf) (sometimes by unto, — (idioms vary)), to mark the limit reached, or where one sets foot....
Strong's Greek: 1519. εἰς (eis) -- to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, fig. purpose, result)

Into doesn't work. But on works.
It's not like Jesus, or belief in Jesus, is a hollow place.
You believe on Jesus; fine, well and good.
But His words must abide in you for you to abide in His love. John 15:1-10
Believe is a continuous action, where you are forever Yielding to Him, by doing what He said.

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bling said:

Everyone is at a different point in their Spiritual life, faith and Love grow together by using them. Sometimes I start with a person who does not know anything about Christ, so what does that person need to realize first?

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Hi Bling, in my case, the thing that I needed to come to realize was that I was a sinner w/o hope, and therefore in desperate need of a (the) Savior .. e.g. Galatians 3:24.

Why I suddenly came to that realization at age 30 I could only guess at (the two people who were leading me towards the Lord played a big part in this, of course), but it happened to me (this realization of who I really was) in the midst of my very successful and happy (and granted, very sinful) life, at a time, oddly, when I literally had everything (or nearly so) that I had hoped to have in my life.

As I think back, I believe that it all began on my 25th birthday when I wondered for some reason (again, right in the midst of my life going so incredibly well for me) if this was all there was to life? I don't know where that thought came from either, though after having been a Christian from more than 35 years now, I think I have a pretty good idea

God bless you!

--David