Believe in Jesus and you will be saved

[d taylor]

Why are you arguing with authoritative NT teaching of Paul in Romans 3:25:
"atonement through faith in his blood"?

Do you not understand that we sit under the word of God written, we do not sit over it?

Where are your other witness or proofs from The Bible and Paul that Romans 3:25 should be read the way you are reading it. I do not see this in the NKJV or other translations. Nor do i find Paul using faith in Blood anywhere else in The Bible.

From the NKJV
whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

 

[Clare73]

Where are your other witness or proofs from The Bible and Paul that Romans 3:25 should be read the way you are reading it.

Uh. . .how about the words on the page of my NIV. . .not to mention the Greek text.

I do not see this in the NKJV or other translations. Nor do i find Paul using faith in Blood anywhere else in The Bible.

From the NKJV
whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

I can't tell from the Greek what the grammatial object of faith is in the sentence.

The NIV has the object of faith as his blood.

 

[RickReads]

Where are your other witness or proofs from The Bible and Paul that Romans 3:25 should be read the way you are reading it. I do not see this in the NKJV or other translations. Nor do i find Paul using faith in Blood anywhere else in The Bible.

From the NKJV
whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

Without the blood, there is no atonement.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

 

[d taylor]

Uh. . .how about the words on the page of my NIV. . .not to mention the Greek text.

I can't tell from the Greek what the grammatial object of faith is in the sentence.

The NIV has the object of faith as his blood.

the Bible interpret's Itself, so to support a verse in the Bible. The Bible should have in another part, the idea that supports the verse.

So there should be another area in The Bible stating that it is faith in the blood that gives eternal life.

There are multiple time in The Bible, stating that it is faith in The Messiah that gives Eternal Life.

 

[RickReads]

the Bible interpret's Itself, so to support a verse in the Bible. The Bible should have in another part, the idea that supports the verse.

So there should be another area in The Bible stating that it is faith in the blood that gives eternal life.

There are multiple time in The Bible, stating that it is faith in The Messiah that gives Eternal Life.

Here you go,

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[d taylor]

Here you go,

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

You want to high light where you are seeing it is faith in the blood of Jesus that gives eternal life.

 

[Clare73]

the Bible interpret's Itself, so to support a verse in the Bible. The Bible should have in another part, the idea that supports the verse.

So there should be another area in The Bible stating that it is faith in the blood that gives eternal life.

And who made that rule?

How many times must God state it in his word written before it is true?

How many places do you see "God is three persons in one God" in Scripture?

 

[RickReads]

You want to high light where you are seeing it is faith in the blood of Jesus that gives eternal life.

Per your request, it is done, although I could have used any one of several verses. I`m not sure why you think this issue can be debated.

Acts 20:28
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
Ephesians 1:7
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
1 Peter 1:18-19
18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.

Romans 5:9
9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!

Revelation 1:5
5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,

Leviticus 17:11
11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.

 

[d taylor]

And who made that rule?

How many times must God state it in his word written before it is true?

How many places do you see "God is three persons in one God" in Scripture?

Why would you not use scripture to interpret to interpret scripture. Especially when the original languages do not translate into English or another language word for word.

So to see the full meaning of what a verse or verses are saying, it is paramount that other areas of the Bible are consulted.

The best way is to uses verses that are clear and to the point and use these to understand more difficult passages.

Example it is stated many time that Eternal Life (salvation) is by faith in The Messiah. So when a verse is seen as saying something that seems to go against clear meanings of scripture. This verse can be checked against other areas in the Bible to find out really what this verse is saying.

Example of a women being saved in childbearing, we can know this saving is not a salvation of receiving eternal life.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

 

[d taylor]

Per your request, it is done, although I could have used any one of several verses. I`m not sure why you think this issue can be debated.

Acts 20:28
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
Ephesians 1:7
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace
1 Peter 1:18-19
18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.

Romans 5:9
9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!

Revelation 1:5
5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,

Leviticus 17:11
11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.

What these verses are saying is Jesus is/was the Lamb of God to took away the sin of The world by His death on the cross. God chose when Adam sin as the payment for mans sin blood, Jesus paid, by His death, for all sin of ever single human who ever lived., so sin has been paid for. Meaning sin is not an issue for a person seeking Gods free gift of Eternal Life. Man is freely able to simply trust in the promised Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

If you believe these verses are saying it is faith in Jesus blood that gives Eternal; Life then you are reading that into these verses. Jesus death on the cross paid for sin, it does not give Eternal Life. If it did then everyone would be saved, regardless whether they believe in The Messiah or not.

The people at the Great White Throne judgment are not judged and condemned for sin ( their sin was paid for at the cross). they are judged for theirs works and if they are in The Book of Life (have they received God's free gift of Eternal Life). When they are not found to be in the Book of Life they are sent to the lake of fire.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. I am the bread of life.

 

[RickReads]

What these verses are saying is Jesus is/was the Lamb of God to took away the sin of The world by His death on the cross. God chose when Adam sin as the payment for mans sin blood, Jesus paid, by His death, for all sin of ever single human who ever lived., so sin has been paid for. Meaning sin is not an issue for a person seeking Gods free gift of Eternal Life. Man is freely able to simply trust in the promised Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

If you believe these verses are saying it is faith in Jesus blood that gives Eternal; Life then you are reading that into these verses. Jesus death on the cross paid for sin, it does not give Eternal Life. If it did then everyone would be saved, regardless whether they believe in The Messiah or not.

The people at the Great White Throne judgment are not judged and condemned for sin ( their sin was paid for at the cross). they are judged for theirs works and if they are in The Book of Life (have they received God's free gift of Eternal Life). When they are not found to be in the Book of Life they are sent to the lake of fire.

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. I am the bread of life.

Terms such as justified, redeemed, redemption, and bought are used. It doesn`t get much more plain than that. The blood of Jesus is the currency that is paid.

You give me the impression that you are avoiding sin issues when you say sin is not an issue. I guess you do not believe in repentance either, right?

 

[d taylor]

Terms such as justified, redeemed, redemption, and bought are used. It doesn`t get much more plain than that. The blood of Jesus is the currency that is paid.

You give me the impression that you are avoiding sin issues when you say sin is not an issue. I guess you do not believe in repentance either, right?

So you think Jesus was not bale to take away the sin of the world. And that you must pay for what Jesus has already paid for to receive Eternal Life.

I believe in repentance when used correctly and using it in or a part of receiving Eternal Life is not a condition, of receiving Eternal Life.

Repentance is for believers and unbelievers and for anyone who is caught up into habitual sin. Especially sin, that can, if it keeps occurring in a persons life. Could bring about an early death or at least poor health and major problems in a persons (believer or unbeliever) life.

I am not going to get into a back and forth on this as i have learned many times on this site people believe what they believe and do not come here looking to change their beliefs.

So if you want to go about repenting for the rest of your life, applying it to you receiving eternal life give it a go.

 

[Goodhuman]

And. . .he also said keeping his two commandments (Matthew 22:37-41) is keeping the
10 commandments, as did Paul.

This means to keep the two, not to ignore the others.

 

[Guojing]

This means to keep the two, not to ignore the others.

Most people don't distinguish between keeping the 2, and trying your best to keep the 2.

They assume these 2 are equivalent.

 

[RickReads]

So you think Jesus was not bale to take away the sin of the world. And that you must pay for what Jesus has already paid for to receive Eternal Life.

I believe in repentance when used correctly and using it in or a part of receiving Eternal Life is not a condition, of receiving Eternal Life.

Repentance is for believers and unbelievers and for anyone who is caught up into habitual sin. Especially sin, that can, if it keeps occurring in a persons life. Could bring about an early death or at least poor health and major problems in a persons (believer or unbeliever) life.

I am not going to get into a back and forth on this as i have learned many times on this site people believe what they believe and do not come here looking to change their beliefs.

So if you want to go about repenting for the rest of your life, applying it to you receiving eternal life give it a go.

I just asked because it`s been my experience that people who refuse to acknowledge the importance of Jesus' shed Blood usually do not believe it is necessary to repent for sins.

And this is true in your case which leads you into resisting what the text says.

 

[Soyeong]

Not on your life!
You are again (and again, and again, and again. . .) shorting what the NT presents as "to believe," leaving out the most important part of it, the object of that faith: the person and work of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not gjuilty."

James expressed His faith by his works, so his works were what his faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ looked like.

Not on your life!
Orthodox Jews keep God's commandments while rejecting Jesus Christ.
Keeping God's commandments does not mean saving faith in Jesus Christ.

You are rewriting the NT so that Christ-rejecting Orthodox Jews are saved because of their law keeping.

Anathema! (Galatians 1:6-9)

Revelation 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

This verse clearly states that the saints are those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus, so I don't see how you can deny that it is the same group of people. Your problem is with what the Bible says rather than with me. Not every example of obedience to God is expressing faith in Christ, but all example of faith in Christ is expressed by choosing to obey God. I've said nothing about Orthodox Jews being saved by their law keeping, so kindly keep your anathema to yourself.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Perhaps you would like to address the authoritative NT teaching I presented in post #47, above.

My 1st reply to your post was about this position you placed in a post: ""sanctification leads to holiness"".

I shared 2 bible dictionary definitions in 2 separate posts that disagree with your repeated position/teaching: ""sanctification leads to holiness"".

I'll make another attempt to clarify. The word HOLY is [like salvation] a position.
That's done 100% by the Lord & isn't earned of worked for.

Others reading this exchange can make their own decision as to which is accurate.

The Temple had HOLY vessels, utensils, a holy place & the holy of holies.

QUESTION: What act of good works or will did the vessels, utensils of sanctuaries do to be called holy?

ANSWER: None! They were purified by being anointed with oil (the oil was a foreshadow of the Holy Spirit) this anointing with oil set apart/sanctified/made holy the vessels & utensils.

Ex 40:9 And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is therein, and shalt hallow it, and all the vessels thereof: and it shall be holy.

When a believer places their faith in Jesus sin atoning sacrifice & resurrection. Christ baptizes/anoints the believer with His Holy Spirit.

At this moment of the Christ's Holy Spirit Anointing the believer is: Saved/justified=declared righteous/sanctified & holy all in ONE anointing.

It's a God given position Paul refers to many times as "in Christ".

We are now saved/justified = judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God. Sanctified = separated/set apart, for a HOLY purpose/work.

We are not holy because of any work we do. We are holy because Jesus bought/took our sin & all it's due judgments.

Jesus anoints us with His Holy Spirit (a gift Acts 2:38 & 10:45), forgiving ALL our sins, freely imputing us with the gift of righteousness (Rom:4:6, 22 & 5:17), the gift of eternal life (Rom 6:23). Gifts are given & not earned/worked for.

Deut 7:
6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
(MY NOTE: The were called HOLY because the LORD loved, choose & set them apart/sanctified them, for a purpose/work. Also see Deut 14:2)

All praise, glory & honor belong to our great God & Savior, Jesus.

 

[d taylor]

I just asked because it`s been my experience that people who refuse to acknowledge the importance of Jesus' shed Blood usually do not believe it is necessary to repent for sins.

And this is true in your case which leads you into resisting what the text says.

I was not not going to reply to any more of your comments. But since you are making a false observation about post i have made. I will address your false statement.

you stated

I just asked because it`s been my experience that people who refuse to acknowledge the importance of Jesus' shed Blood

You want to show me where i have stated that Jesus death and resurrection was not important.

I stated that Jesus took away the sin of the world with His death and resurrection. Giving everyone alive after this miracle unobstructed access to God's free gift of Eternal Life.

If you do not think think that is important that is between you and God.

But what i have stated several times is that it is faith in the Messiah that a person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.

That it is not faith in the blood of The Messiah that gives Eternal Life.

 

[RickReads]

I was not not going to reply to any more of your comments. But since you are making a false observation about post i have made. I will address your false statement.

you stated


You want to show me where i have stated that Jesus death and resurrection was not important.

I stated that Jesus took away the sin of the world with His death and resurrection. Giving everyone alive after this miracle unobstructed access to God's free gift of Eternal Life.

If you do not think think that is important that is between you and God.

But what i have stated several times is that it is faith in the Messiah that a person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.

That it is not faith in the blood of The Messiah that gives Eternal Life.

You don`t seem to be able to follow basic linguistics so your arguments don`t really make any sense, except that I continue to observe that you seem to see no need for repentance which makes faith in His Blood a necessity.

 

[Clare73]

Why would you not use scripture to interpret to interpret scripture. Especially when the original languages do not translate into English or another language word for word.

"Word for word" translation is not neccessary to understand the Scriptures, what is necessary is "meaning for meaning" of the words to understand them, and that is not impossible.

So precisely what does saving "faith in Jesus Christ" mean--belief that he existed?

If you are not trusting/counting on his sacrifice (blood) to pay the penalty for your sin,
then your sin is not forgiven and you are not justified/saved.

So to see the full meaning of what a verse or verses are saying, it is paramount that other areas of the Bible are consulted.

So "put your money where your mouth is," demonstrate your principle and answer my question:

What other areas of the Bible do you consult to know that "God is three persons in one God?"