Belief systems of Abusive Individuals

[Sam91]

Perpetrators of Domestic Violence – New Hope, Inc.

The Center for Relationship Abuse Awareness & Action

Types of abuse – spiritual abuse

It strikes me that those insisting that women submit rather than focussing on what their own responsibilities are more likely to be perpetrators of abuse.

Would educating/discipling these individuals in a Church setting help them to change before they met someone or got married?

There is nothing wrong with the Bible verses saying a wife should submit to her husband. But the premise is that those who are focussed too strongly on that alone are more likely to be perpetrators of abuse. It links in with the types of thinking that turns wonen into victims.

As a church trained people could actually recognise this and prevent a great deal of sin.

 

[Zoii]

Well lets go one step further. Why in the 21st century are we talking about submission

 

[Emli]

Well lets go one step further. Why in the 21st century are we talking about submission

Because God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He never changes, and neither does His Word. A wife must submit to her husband, but the husband must also submit to Christ. Submission is not a bad word, as long as it is done in God's way and not in our way.

 

[Zoii]

Because God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He never changes, and neither does His Word. A wife must submit to her husband, but the husband must also submit to Christ. Submission is not a bad word, as long as it is done in God's way and not in our way.

I disagree. If you believe that then you wouldnt support police, hospitals and public transport operating on the Sabbath. Youd support stoning of adulterers and you wouldnt support your nation bombing another (thou shalt not kill).

No way am I submitting to anyone. Its cave man talk

 

[Emli]

I disagree. If you believe that then you wouldnt support police, hospitals and public transport operating on the Sabbath. Youd support stoning of adulterers and you wouldnt support your nation bombing another (thou shalt not kill).

No way am I submitting to anyone. Its cave man talk

You are getting the Old and New Covenant mixed up.

Are you submitting to God?

 

[Zoii]

You are getting the Old and New Covenant mixed up.

Are you submitting to God?

Are you saying that God made commandments that he changed his mind about in the new covenant?

 

[Emli]

Are you saying that God made commandments that he changed his mind about in the new covenant?

I wouldn't exactly word it like that, as if He changed His mind. But everything changed when Jesus came. God's mind or nature didn't change, just His relationship with man.

Jesus did not remove the Sabbath, He just corrected the Pharisees for misusing it.

And we are still commanded to keep marriage sacred. And even more so today than before, because a marriage between man and woman is compared to the marriage between Christ and His Bride, the Church.

And we are all commanded to submit ourselves to God.

 

[Sam91]

S

I disagree. If you believe that then you wouldnt support police, hospitals and public transport operating on the Sabbath. Youd support stoning of adulterers and you wouldnt support your nation bombing another (thou shalt not kill).

No way am I submitting to anyone. Its cave man talk

As a woman I agree with the Bible on submission. How much easier to follow the husband and not have to worry about the consequences. He has to deal with the consequences. What a lot of pressure of us freeing us to get on with other things!

However the OP is not about that. It is about how abusive personalities can latch on to those verses and focus on them as God's way by ignoring the rest of the Bible's presecribed way of treating others.

In my opinion as a Church other men should be able to pick up on those misplaced notions if trained on what can follow from holding onto those ideas in an unbalanced way.

Surely some potential abusers do not know what they are capable of. It says in proverbs that a mans ways seem right to him. Mature believers could prevent a great deal oc sin by correcting these erroneous views, in love, before a situation occurs. Is it a sin of omission to not correct these peoples theology?

 

[Zoii]

I wouldn't exactly word it like that, as if He changed His mind. But everything changed when Jesus came. God's mind or nature didn't change, just His relationship with man.

Jesus did not remove the Sabbath, He just corrected the Pharisees for misusing it.

And we are still commanded to keep marriage sacred. And even more so today than before, because a marriage between man and woman is compared to the marriage between Christ and His Bride, the Church.

And we are all commanded to submit ourselves to God.

Exactly. Since Jesus is God he changed what was previously said. And not for the first time did God change his mind.... Thou shalt not kill but then genocided the entire population in a flood and commissioned destruction of villages numerous times including the slaughter of children...... he does change his mind.

And to the OP... this whole "ugh... woman..... time for sex... come" cave man rubbish needs to go

 

[Zoii]

S


As a woman I agree with the Bible on submission. How much easier to follow the husband and not have to worry about the consequences. He has to deal with the consequences. What a lot of pressure of us freeing us to get on with other things!

However the OP is not about that. It is about how abusive personalities can latch on to those verses and focus on them as God's way by ignoring the rest of the Bible's presecribed way of treating others.

In my opinion as a Church other men should be able to pick up on those misplaced notions if trained on what can follow from holding onto those ideas in an unbalanced way.

Surely some potential abusers do not know what they are capable of. It says in proverbs that a mans ways seem right to him. Mature believers could prevent a great deal oc sin by correcting these erroneous views, in love, before a situation occurs. Is it a sin of omission to not correct these peoples theology?

Well thats fine if you cant make a decision with consideration for consequences. ... but im speaking for the rest of us who can.

And for the record, Im intelligent, likely ro be a successful professional, am a balanced decision maker... why on earth would i need a guy to lead me who may well be less successful than I am

 

[Emli]

Exacgly. Since jesys is God he changed wgat was previously said. And not fir the first time did God change his mind.... Thou shalt not kill but then genocided the entire population in a flood and commissioned destruction of villages numerous times including the slaughter of children...... he dies change his mind.

And to the OP... this whole "ugh... woman..... time for sex... come" cave man rubbish nedds to go

God didn't change His mind. It wasn't like that. I could explain this to you, but it would be a very long post. I will instead advice you to just seek God and ask Him to open your eyes. You will be very surprised.

 

[Sam91]

Exacgly. Since jesys is God he changed wgat was previously said. And not fir the first time did God change his mind.... Thou shalt not kill but then genocided the entire population in a flood and commissioned destruction of villages numerous times including the slaughter of children...... he dies change his mind.

And to the OP... this whole "ugh... woman..... time for sex... come" cave man rubbish nedds to go

When you are older and know the stress of running a household, keeping a job etc You will know how great as a woman it is to not have to make so many decisions. It is so tiresome. Really! It is much easier to love someone and support than lead and bear the stress and weight yourself. God's way works. It was the way we designed. The problem when it doesn't is with man himself and lack of education from elders.

 

[Sam91]

Well thats fine if you cant make a decision with consideration for consequences. ... but im speaking for the rest of us who can

Oh, I am very capable of that. It is unwise to assume I can't.

 

[Zoii]

When you are older and know the stress of running a household, keeping a job etc You will know how great as a woman it is to not have to make so many decisions. It is so tiresome. Really! It is much easier to love someone and support than lead and bear the stress and weight yourself. God's way works. It was the way we designed. The problem when it doesn't is with man himself and lack of education from elders.

I agree running a house and working is hard. If I earn more he can run the house

 

[Zoii]

Oh, I am very capable of that. It is unwise to assume I can't.

Then......... I misunderstand your point then. If you can make such decisions why defer to a guy

 

[Sam91]

I agree running a house and working is hard. If I earn more he can run the house

Yeah, this thread isn't about this though. It is about when God's word doesn't get put into context in potential abusers mind. I prefer that it doesn't turn into a debate about feminism or if we ought to follow what the Bible says.

 

[Sam91]

Then......... I misunderstand your point then. If you can make such decisions why defer to a guy

Because the Bible decrees it. It is more enjoyable to and gives us women freedom from juggling all the responsibilities. Just look at secular society. Women have all the old responsibilities, jobs, social life and men turn into giant children. The Bible is right and with a Godly, non demineering man, submission gives freedom.

Look at what hapoens when we submit to God. We are filled with peace. Do yourself a favour and only marry a God fearing, kind and loving man.

 

[Zoii]

Yeah, this thread isn't about this though. It is about when God's word doesn't get put into context in potential abusers mind. I prefer that it doesn't turn into a debate about feminism or if we ought to follow what the Bible says.

Well I appreciate that..... except the original tenet is submission and its abuse. Hence I dont feel Im off topic by suggesting the tenet of submission is the actual problem that should have been scrubbed from the bible decades ago.

 

[Sam91]

Well I appreciate that..... except the original tenet is submission and its abuse. Hence I dont feel Im off topic by suggesting the tenet of submission is the actual problem that should have been scrubbed from the bible decades ago.

But that could end up debated rather than the domestic abuse side of men who think that they can demand submission without seeing women as equals.

Rather than a woman following Gods word and submitting to her equal partner, and letting him lead. Being supportive rather than having strife over lots of decisions.

 

[Zoii]

Because the Bible decrees it. It is more enjoyable to and gives us women freedom from juggling all the responsibilities. Just look at secular society. Women have all the old responsibilities, jobs, social life and men turn into giant children. The Bible is right and with a Godly, non demineering man, submission gives freedom.

Look at what hapoens when we submit to God. We are filled with piece. Do yourself a favour and only marry a God fearing, kind and loving man.

You know..... I really hope you know Im not criticising you or your views or how you choose to relate to your husband. .. and I really hope Im not offending you.

But for me this whole... you have to submit.... is horrifying and alienating. I hear it and think... whoa where am I.... Yemen?